Shell rot - what can i do til my appt next Friday

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Hi! This is Sheldon. I rescued him just before Hurricane Ian. We live in E.Orlando. I have no idea how old he is.

He is currently living in a plastic baby pool with a few toys and a box on its side that he uses as his shelter. i bought and built one of those wooden hutches that has the two sides, but i have to figure out the substrates, etc.

I had to go out of town last week for a few days. I left Sheldon with a head of romaine lettuce, a couple of hibiscus flowers, and water. Of course while i was gone he pooped, so his pool was covered in poop cos apparently he likes to walk thru his poop and spread it all over the pool. So i cleaned and bleach washed his pool (and rinsed really well too, don’t worry) and yesterday he got a bath (he pooped in there twice). When i picked him up to clean his belly it had a lot of poop smeared all over and once clean i noticed that his belly looked weird. So i took pix and asked a tortoise FB group and they said it was shell rot. 🙁

I spent a big chunk of last nite watching YouTube videos for how to treat shell rot. And this AM i spent a few hours trying to find an exotic vet to take him to, which i finally did, but that appointment is a week from today. The problem is everyone has different advice. The vet told me to do daily “betadine baths”. But she didn’t say anything about the anti-fungal creme. I also watched a video where the person gave the tortoise a bath with a mild soap & soft toothbrush and then applied betadine directly to the injured places of the shell. He also didn’t say anything about anti-fungal cream. I just want to know what i can do to help/treat my boy between now and then.

Thank you for your help!
~Mandee

 

[zovick]

Hi! This is Sheldon. I rescued him just before Hurricane Ian. We live in E.Orlando. I have no idea how old he is.

He is currently living in a plastic baby pool with a few toys and a box on its side that he uses as his shelter. i bought and built one of those wooden hutches that has the two sides, but i have to figure out the substrates, etc.

I had to go out of town last week for a few days. I left Sheldon with a head of romaine lettuce, a couple of hibiscus flowers, and water. Of course while i was gone he pooped, so his pool was covered in poop cos apparently he likes to walk thru his poop and spread it all over the pool. So i cleaned and bleach washed his pool (and rinsed really well too, don’t worry) and yesterday he got a bath (he pooped in there twice). When i picked him up to clean his belly it had a lot of poop smeared all over and once clean i noticed that his belly looked weird. So i took pix and asked a tortoise FB group and they said it was shell rot. 🙁

I spent a big chunk of last nite watching YouTube videos for how to treat shell rot. And this AM i spent a few hours trying to find an exotic vet to take him to, which i finally did, but that appointment is a week from today. The problem is everyone has different advice. The vet told me to do daily “betadine baths”. But she didn’t say anything about the anti-fungal creme. I also watched a video where the person gave the tortoise a bath with a mild soap & soft toothbrush and then applied betadine directly to the injured places of the shell. He also didn’t say anything about anti-fungal cream. I just want to know what i can do to help/treat my boy between now and then.

Thank you for your help!
~Mandee


View attachment 351262View attachment 351263

Don't be too worried. That is not active shell rot or not very much of it if there are still any active areas. It looks as though it may have been starting to rot years ago but now has stopped and is almost completely healed up.

You really don't need to do anything until your exotic vet appointment next week. If it makes you feel better, use the athlete's foot cream on it or apply Gentian Violet to it with a cotton swab.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Don't be too worried. That is not active shell rot or not very much of it if there are still any active areas. It looks as though it may have been starting to rot years ago but now has stopped and is almost completely healed up.

You really don't need to do anything until your exotic vet appointment next week. If it makes you feel better, use the athlete's foot cream on it or apply Gentian Violet to it with a cotton swab.

Agreed
And I'd like to mention that if that "Kiddie pool" enclosure is ever used outside, make sure that you've poked large holes into the bottom of the pool.
If it ever rains, the pool will become a drowning hazard

 

[wellington]

Agree with above but recommend canceling the vet visit as too many of them know nothing about treating tortoises and can do more harm then good. Also be very careful with advice from the FB groups, most of the people on there know nothing.

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Don't be too worried. That is not active shell rot or not very much of it if there are still any active areas. It looks as though it may have been starting to rot years ago but now has stopped and is almost completely healed up.

You really don't need to do anything until your exotic vet appointment next week. If it makes you feel better, use the athlete's foot cream on it or apply Gentian Violet to it with a cotton swab.

Hi! Thank you for responding.

My concern is about the bald spot that is on his chest/belly. The big peach spot. It is right under his head (you can’t see his head cos he was mad cos i was holding him up) but that spot wasn’t there before. It was all shell, like rear of the other dark parts. I didn’t touch it…I’m afraid….so i don’t know if it’s soft or not.

I just gave him another soak/bath cos earlier he pee’d while he was eating, and then laid in it 🤦🏻‍♀️

Now i just noticed that he seems to be kind of dripping some clear slimy stuff, the consistency of raw egg white. His urine earlier had the white goopy stuff and was the right consistency, but when he is walking around he is leaving a trail of this kinda slime. (Like a snail.)

He is still eating like a champ tho, so i guess that’s good. Oddly he didn’t eat his hibiscus today, but he ate the romaine, a couple of bites of a spinach leaf, and some shredded carrots. Just now he ate another piece of Romaine that was still in the food dish. Then he crawled over to his little box shelter thing and made digging noises til he went to sleep. He sleeps with his head, arms, and legs out…i read that means he is comfortable and feel safe. 🤞

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Agreed
And I'd like to mention that if that "Kiddie pool" enclosure is ever used outside, make sure that you've poked large holes into the bottom of the pool.
If it ever rains, the pool will become a drowning hazard

Hi! Thank you for responding. (I’m obvi a very nervous tortoise noob-parent.)

The kiddie pool is currently in the garage, so he’s safe from rain. (It was briefly chilly here, like in the low to mid 60s. I was worried he would be too cold.) i will move him back out to the lanai soon, but he will be under the overhang, so he won’t get wet (or at least not soaked) if it rains. I really want to put him into the house that i bought/built. But i have to figure out where to put it first because once all the substrate is in there i probably won’t be able to move it myself. But i definitely would rather that he had soil and mulch to dig in, since i know he is a burrower. I’m still going to take him to the vet, mostly some i have some kind of baseline for his health. She is an exotics specialist (that’s why i have to wait so long, she is the only one in their office and she is on vacation). I spent hours trying to find an exotics vet here. I had no idea that would be so difficult. 🤷🏻‍♀️

 

[Tom]

Sheldon is a Russian tortoise, by the way. Not a hermanni.

 

[wellington]

I think what you are talking about is what we all see.
I would do this. Put over the counter antibiotic cream on it daily. Soaking first to lightly wash off what you put on the day before. Put him on paper towel for now until it starts to look better. If you are using any heating pads under the pool or for him to lay on stop using it asap.
Once he has healed, put a proper substrate in the pool. Coconut coir or orchid bark. Do not leave the plastic bare.

 

[Yvonne G]

It doesn't look like shell rot to me. Shell rot presents like little patches with rough edges all over the plastron and go fairly deep into the shell. To me that looks like it was scraped off by another animal's teeth. . . dog, rodent, racoon, etc. When you enlarge the last picture you can see scrape lines on the carapace like from teeth too.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Hi! Thank you for responding. (I’m obvi a very nervous tortoise noob-parent.)

The kiddie pool is currently in the garage, so he’s safe from rain. (It was briefly chilly here, like in the low to mid 60s. I was worried he would be too cold.) i will move him back out to the lanai soon, but he will be under the overhang, so he won’t get wet (or at least not soaked) if it rains. I really want to put him into the house that i bought/built. But i have to figure out where to put it first because once all the substrate is in there i probably won’t be able to move it myself. But i definitely would rather that he had soil and mulch to dig in, since i know he is a burrower. I’m still going to take him to the vet, mostly some i have some kind of baseline for his health. She is an exotics specialist (that’s why i have to wait so long, she is the only one in their office and she is on vacation). I spent hours trying to find an exotics vet here. I had no idea that would be so difficult. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Even amongst "exotic" pet vets true tortoise knowledge is unusual.
A lot of vets are charging you good money to learn at your pets expense. Few would admit to that.
I'd also just save the money. Definitely do not allow any "vitamin" shots. Just the mention of that and you need to run. Tortoise in hand.

 

[Tom]

It doesn't look like shell rot to me. Shell rot presents like little patches with rough edges all over the plastron and go fairly deep into the shell. To me that looks like it was scraped off by another animal's teeth. . . dog, rodent, racoon, etc. When you enlarge the last picture you can see scrape lines on the carapace like from teeth too.

I had that same nagging feeling too, but you articulated it much better than I could. This doesn't look like rot. That looks like it was scraped. The pic gets blurry when I try to zoom in, but that is just not an area where shell rot would occur, and it wouldn't present like that.

And I have never seen or heard of a case of shell rot in a Russian tortoise.

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Sheldon is a Russian tortoise, by the way. Not a hermanni.

It’s so weird, everywhere I’ve seen so far people seem to use those names interchangeably. When i first found him i used the app “seek” and it said he was an Afghan Tortoise. Then someone said Russian Tortoise. So are those three all actually different breeds of tortoise?

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

I think what you are talking about is what we all see.
I would do this. Put over the counter antibiotic cream on it daily. Soaking first to lightly wash off what you put on the day before. Put him on paper towel for now until it starts to look better. If you are using any heating pads under the pool or for him to lay on stop using it asap.
Once he has healed, put a proper substrate in the pool. Coconut coir or orchid bark. Do not leave the plastic bare.

I bought all of this. I can’t seem to get a straight answer about the soil tho, if it’s okay to use or not. Someone yesterday told me about the coco coir. I have to go get that, but can i use what i bought in the mean time?

Also I’m in central FL, so i don’t really use a heat lamp or anything. When i wake up (this past week anyway since he’s been in the garage) I’ve been opening the garage, so he gets the light. It’s still pretty warm here in the day. Down to low 70s at nite.

Do you think i need to get the uvb light and heat lamp? Sometimes i wonder if i should have just set him free after the storm. The problem is he is non-native to this area, so i felt bad. Plus, I’m already attached to him now. 😂🐢

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

It doesn't look like shell rot to me. Shell rot presents like little patches with rough edges all over the plastron and go fairly deep into the shell. To me that looks like it was scraped off by another animal's teeth. . . dog, rodent, racoon, etc. When you enlarge the last picture you can see scrape lines on the carapace like from teeth too.

Hmm… to my knowledge he hasn’t been attacked by any animals…at least not since he has been with me. I suppose maybe before me. I have only had him a month. There is a small piece of missing shell near his left leg…a little triangle, but i didn’t ever see any blood or anything, so it had to be before my time.

I will take better pix tomorrow.
Thank you! 🙂

 

[Tom]

It’s so weird, everywhere I’ve seen so far people seem to use those names interchangeably. When i first found him i used the app “seek” and it said he was an Afghan Tortoise. Then someone said Russian Tortoise. So are those three all actually different breeds of tortoise?

Common names can be confusing. Afghan tortoise, Steppe tortoise, Russian tortoise and horsfield tortoise are all the same species: Testudo horsfieldii.

The hermanns tortoise is a totally different species: Testudo hermanni.

There are no breeds of tortoises. The word "breed" denotes morphologically different members of the same domestic species, like chickens, cows or dogs. All dogs are the same species, but our tortoises are different species.

 

[Tom]

View attachment 351277View attachment 351278View attachment 351279View attachment 351280
I bought all of this. I can’t seem to get a straight answer about the soil tho, if it’s okay to use or not. Someone yesterday told me about the coco coir. I have to go get that, but can i use what i bought in the mean time?

Also I’m in central FL, so i don’t really use a heat lamp or anything. When i wake up (this past week anyway since he’s been in the garage) I’ve been opening the garage, so he gets the light. It’s still pretty warm here in the day. Down to low 70s at nite.

Do you think i need to get the uvb light and heat lamp? Sometimes i wonder if i should have just set him free after the storm. The problem is he is non-native to this area, so i felt bad. Plus, I’m already attached to him now. 😂🐢

You will be a lot less frustrated, and your tortoise will be a lot better off if you stop asking all the wrong sources. Pet stores, FB, and almost the entire internet are going to steer you the wrong way. Everything you bought is all the usual wrong stuff. Soil should never be used as substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and it could be toxic or dangerous. The people who make it don't intend for small animals to be living on it.

Those water bowls are dangerous and totally unsuitable for tortoises. The log hide is fine. The "Forest Floor" substrate is okay. The thermometer is useless and unreliable. That enclosure is way too small and not suitable for any tortoise.

If your tortoise does not have access to direct sunshine, then it needs a heat lamp to simulate the sun.

Here is the correct care info with product recommendations that are safe and effective:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Common names can be confusing. Afghan tortoise, Steppe tortoise, Russian tortoise and horsfield tortoise are all the same species: Testudo horsfieldii.

The hermanns tortoise is a totally different species: Testudo hermanni.

There are no breeds of tortoises. The word "breed" denotes morphologically different members of the same domestic species, like chickens, cows or dogs. All dogs are the same species, but our tortoises are different species.

I did not know any of that! Thank you for explaining 🙂

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

You will be a lot less frustrated, and your tortoise will be a lot better off if you stop asking all the wrong sources. Pet stores, FB, and almost the entire internet are going to steer you the wrong way. Everything you bought is all the usual wrong stuff. Soil should never be used as substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and it could be toxic or dangerous. The people who make it don't intend for small animals to be living on it.

Those water bowls are dangerous and totally unsuitable for tortoises. The log hide is fine. The "Forest Floor" substrate is okay. The thermometer is useless and unreliable. That enclosure is way too small and not suitable for any tortoise.

If your tortoise does not have access to direct sunshine, then it needs a heat lamp to simulate the sun.

Here is the correct care info with product recommendations that are safe and effective:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

You will be a lot less frustrated, and your tortoise will be a lot better off if you stop asking all the wrong sources. Pet stores, FB, and almost the entire internet are going to steer you the wrong way. Everything you bought is all the usual wrong stuff. Soil should never be used as substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and it could be toxic or dangerous. The people who make it don't intend for small animals to be living on it.

Those water bowls are dangerous and totally unsuitable for tortoises. The log hide is fine. The "Forest Floor" substrate is okay. The thermometer is useless and unreliable. That enclosure is way too small and not suitable for any tortoise.

If your tortoise does not have access to direct sunshine, then it needs a heat lamp to simulate the sun.

Here is the correct care info with product recommendations that are safe and effective:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Oy vey! Well now I’m glad i didn’t just throw everything in there and let him live in there. 😳 i will read thru your attachment. And also stop looking to FB for any advice. Tho Google is how I stumbled onto this site…and i can’t thank you guys enough for the insight you’ve already shared.

I will buy the coco coir and whatever else is appropriate substrate tomorrow. I’m still going to use the enclosure I bought for now, cos it has to be better than the plastic pool, while i figure out what to do for an enclosure. I definitely can’t build him an outdoor one because we have a ton of Prey birds out here. But I will keep the enclosure outside on the lanai so he is safe and can get sun in the day. I’m on my way now to read the document you shared to figure out what else I need to do.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me and Sheldon. I want him to be as healthy and happy as possible!

 

[wellington]

You don't need the coconut coir if you use the forest floor. If you want to use both the coir and forest floor you can. Put the coir on the bottom and wood chips over it.
Do not let him go that would be wrong and neglectful. If you found him though you should try to find the owner.
Follow the caresheet Tom linked. If the pool is bigger then the wood box, the pool would be better.
As Tom said, if the tort doesn't get sunlight where he can get uvb and bask under 95-100 temps then you will need a uvb light and a basking bulb. Otherwise get him outside for it.

 

[Tom]

I definitely can’t build him an outdoor one because we have a ton of Prey birds out here.

There are lots of birds of prey all over the entire country. I have a pair of great big red tail hawks that nest right over my tortoise pens every year. They won't mess with an adult tortoise. You can build something with a lid if you want. Or make the enclosure inside some sort of large cage or big dog kennel. I use a chicken coop from Tractor Supply for one of my torts. At night you will need to lock up the tortoise inside a temperature controlled night box and this will keep it safe from nocturnal predators and unfavorable weather.