Considering purchasing my wife a tortoise, and I have some noob questions please :-)

SiouxsieQ · Jun 9, 2026

Luckie Turtle Man said:
Bump for box turtles lol!

Would any of the various box turtles require less room than a 4'x8' enclosure?

Wellllll…I may be biased since this is the size of my own enclosure, but I think 32 sq ft should be normalized as the new minimum for all species of box turtles. Plus dude Tom had already weighed in on that with his expertise, so deferring to that is probably wise. But there’s definitely no hard and fast rule, and the standard seems to be ever changing.

Maybe just go ahead with maximizing an outdoor space (100+ sq ft would be awesome) for an appropriate tortoise or box turtle species, and make sure you make a legit outdoor brumation/hibernaculum area for the winter. If I recall, a user on here by the name terryo had a few great posts about overwintering box turtles outdoors in NY. Or to err on the side of caution, read up more on how to safely brumate indoors. (All hatchlings/juveniles should really be started indoors before you venture overwintering)

From what I’ve seen, chelonians just don’t exhibit the same level of engaged and active behavior indoors as they would in an outdoor naturalistic environment. I’ve seen too many cases where turtles turn into listless, sentient rocks, facing the corner of a glass aquarium and not truly alive to the world. That’s an extreme example of negligence though. If you’re going to go the route of indoor housing, and want to do the absolute best, I think closed chamber pvc enclosures are the crème de la crème! Very pricy, but Toad Ranch is an option, or google search other pvc enclosure brands, or even learn to make one yourself.

Lastly, though these enclosures aren’t 32 sq ft, they’re of a comparable size and great examples of how to house box turtles indoors. Two links:

*** 10’ x 2’ x 4’ in size, indoor enclosure of the famous Otis

*** 6’ x 3’ x 2’ in size, props to this reddit user https://www.reddit.com/r/turtle/s/9WsDrrQE1c

Anyway, just wanted to drop my 2 cents as a box turtle enthusiast!

Maggie3fan · Jun 9, 2026

SiouxsieQ said:
Wellllll…I may be biased since this is the size of my own enclosure, but I think 32 sq ft should be normalized as the new minimum for all species of box turtles. Plus dude Tom had already weighed in on that with his expertise, so deferring to that is probably wise. But there’s definitely no hard and fast rule, and the standard seems to be ever changing.

Maybe just go ahead with maximizing an outdoor space (100+ sq ft would be awesome) for an appropriate tortoise or box turtle species, and make sure you make a legit outdoor brumation/hibernaculum area for the winter. If I recall, a user on here by the name terryo had a few great posts about overwintering box turtles outdoors in NY. Or to err on the side of caution, read up more on how to safely brumate indoors. (All hatchlings/juveniles should really be started indoors before you venture overwintering)

From what I’ve seen, chelonians just don’t exhibit the same level of engaged and active behavior indoors as they would in an outdoor naturalistic environment. I’ve seen too many cases where turtles turn into listless, sentient rocks, facing the corner of a glass aquarium and not truly alive to the world. That’s an extreme example of negligence though. If you’re going to go the route of indoor housing, and want to do the absolute best, I think closed chamber pvc enclosures are the crème de la crème! Very pricy, but Toad Ranch is an option, or google search other pvc enclosure brands, or even learn to make one yourself.

Lastly, though these enclosures aren’t 32 sq ft, they’re of a comparable size and great examples of how to house box turtles indoors. Two links:

*** 10’ x 2’ x 4’ in size, indoor enclosure of the famous Otis

*** 6’ x 3’ x 2’ in size, props to this reddit user https://www.reddit.com/r/turtle/s/9WsDrrQE1c

Anyway, just wanted to drop my 2 cents as a box turtle enthusiast!

Please remember in my post I said "I" put all my box turtles outside daily and bring them in at night. I have predators in my area, so I do have 3 tort tables in my tort shed for some box turtles, my own box turtles had tables in the house. My neighbor and I hand dug a 2 foot deep pond for my box turtles. I ran a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue for 21 years, I've had a lot of box turtles, and mine never acted the way you describe...here's a few...outside

they like to bask on the fence board

they couldn't eat the slugs and snails fast enuf I guess

SiouxsieQ · Jun 9, 2026

Maggie3fan said:
Please remember in my post I said "I" put all my box turtles outside daily and bring them in at night. I have predators in my area, so I do have 3 tort tables in my tort shed for some box turtles, my own box turtles had tables in the house. My neighbor and I hand dug a 2 foot deep pond for my box turtles. I ran a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue for 21 years, I've had a lot of box turtles, and mine never acted the way you describe...here's a few...outsideView attachment 400926
they like to bask on the fence boardView attachment 400927
they couldn't eat the slugs and snails fast enuf I guessView attachment 400928 View attachment 400929

I’m actually very confused and a little bit sad that you thought I meant my post as a slight against you? I was responding to the OP about box turtles enclosure sizes and providing my own suggestions, with zero intention to offend or “throw shade” about how any experienced member of this forum keeps their turts. If you mean my comment about listless turtles in glass aquariums, I’m talking about Petco/Petsmart, uninformed owners, putting a poor adult turtle in a 10 gallon with astro turf and feeding them iceburg lettuce. I stand by that criticism, and that does NOT seem to be the way you maintain yours? The major exception being that young hatchlings/juveniles can be started just fine in an aquarium with the appropriate husbandry. Proper lighting, heating, substrate, hides, water bowl, plants, enrichment, diet, all that. I do not understand at all your defensiveness.

I liked your post, you mentioned indoor tort tables as well as bringing them outside for enrichment. That seems fine to me, that’s your choice and if they seemed healthy under your care, it doesn’t seem to be an issue. There’s different camps on this very forum about whether people *prefer* tort tables or enclosed chambers, ie. see earlier in the thread and Tom’s comment. I won’t debate you here about it though, my preference and suggestion was not directed at you.

I have seen your posts in the past and have admired and been charmed by the pictures of your box turtles swimming out to the plank. I wish I could do a naturalistic, flooded pond area like you and am frustrated by my own limiting factors to make a bigger water feature. Trust me, my mind does not operate in “hater” mode, I am literal, autistic, and only seek to learn and emulate excellent box turtle care.

****One last thing to add - under extenuating circumstances, like in the case of Garden State Tortoises’ Rockalina, an indoor enclosure most of the time is probably the best way to maintain and rehabilitate a special needs/disabled turtle. If you’ve been following her story like I have, her improvement and trips outdoors have been so heartwarming to witness, as I’m sure you’re very familiar with since you’ve spent so many years rehabilitating and taking your turts outside for enrichment. Not to mention that Otis was in a tort table before the pvc enclosure! Anyway, cheers, O hope this clears up any further confusion.

COmtnLady · Jun 9, 2026

I've been following Rockalina, too! I'm amazed at how she looks now compared to when we all first saw her. They are doing a really good job with her. I know how I feel when I am hungry for something specific (nine times out of ten it indicates I am running short on some particular vitamin or mineral), but to be held hostage on a kitchen floor, with out of control nails and beak, and only having kibble.... What a sad life.

SiouxsieQ · Jun 9, 2026

COmtnLady said:
I've been following Rockalina, too! I'm amazed at how she looks now compared to when we all first saw her. They are doing a really good job with her. I know how I feel when I am hungry for something specific (nine times out of ten it indicates I am running short on some particular vitamin or mineral), but to be held hostage on a kitchen floor, with out of control nails and beak, and only having kibble.... What a sad life.

Ohhhh my gosh, poor thing was looking rough in the beginning, I was so relieved that she pulled through! I think it speaks to the resilience and incredible spirit of these little creatures, that they can bounce back and keep on truckin’, even after 50 yrs of negligence. Rockalina has truly blossomed and I’m proud of that little warrior! My own little lady, Miss Poppy, she’d had a hard time of it when we found her abandoned and been chewed on by a dog. Never stopped her, she flourished and it ain’t no thang, she’s out here thriving :<3:

Lol sorry OP about the tangent, hope you and your wife can land on a good species of tortoise/turtle to bring into your life. As you can see, the topic of chelonian care sparks much passion, much debate, big feels haha. They’re way more interesting creatures than a lot of people give them credit for!

Oh, right…need to pay the turtle tax:

Maggie3fan · Jun 9, 2026

SiouxsieQ said:
I’m actually very confused and a little bit sad that you thought I meant my post as a slight against you? I was responding to the OP about box turtles enclosure sizes and providing my own suggestions, with zero intention to offend or “throw shade” about how any experienced member of this forum keeps their turts. If you mean my comment about listless turtles in glass aquariums, I’m talking about Petco/Petsmart, uninformed owners, putting a poor adult turtle in a 10 gallon with astro turf and feeding them iceburg lettuce. I stand by that criticism, and that does NOT seem to be the way you maintain yours? The major exception being that young hatchlings/juveniles can be started just fine in an aquarium with the appropriate husbandry. Proper lighting, heating, substrate, hides, water bowl, plants, enrichment, diet, all that. I do not understand at all your defensiveness.

I liked your post, you mentioned indoor tort tables as well as bringing them outside for enrichment. That seems fine to me, that’s your choice and if they seemed healthy under your care, it doesn’t seem to be an issue. There’s different camps on this very forum about whether people *prefer* tort tables or enclosed chambers, ie. see earlier in the thread and Tom’s comment. I won’t debate you here about it though, my preference and suggestion was not directed at you.

I have seen your posts in the past and have admired and been charmed by the pictures of your box turtles swimming out to the plank. I wish I could do a naturalistic, flooded pond area like you and am frustrated by my own limiting factors to make a bigger water feature. Trust me, my mind does not operate in “hater” mode, I am literal, autistic, and only seek to learn and emulate excellent box turtle care.

****One last thing to add - under extenuating circumstances, like in the case of Garden State Tortoises’ Rockalina, an indoor enclosure most of the time is probably the best way to maintain and rehabilitate a special needs/disabled turtle. If you’ve been following her story like I have, her improvement and trips outdoors have been so heartwarming to witness, as I’m sure you’re very familiar with since you’ve spent so many years rehabilitating and taking your turts outside for enrichment. Not to mention that Otis was in a tort table before the pvc enclosure! Anyway, cheers, O hope this clears up any further confusion.

Not against me...no. I just wanted to make sure the OP had an option...in today's vernacular...it's all good...

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 9, 2026

New friends, keeping a tortoise 80%-100% outside in my cilmate is sparking some new questions for me, and I don't mean to get ahead of myself here, but a few questions please:

What would be the minimum outdoor enclosure area square footage needed for a single Marginated, even if I brought him/her inside to brumate indoor in a small, purpose built fridge?
Same question, but insert Russians and any other temperate species here
Is there any setup that can safely house more than one? I've read that it's best to house them singularly, and that's absolutely fine. But, I'm reading about people keeping groups, which I think my wife would enjoy. How does this work, or is this not recommended?

Thanks again everyone!

mark1 said:
are you sure you are 6b? a 6b climate should be no problem keeping properly set up eastern box turtles, ornate box turtles or russian tortoises outdoors 24/7/365

mark1 said:

When I simply google my zip, it tells me I'm 6b. On your map, I'm right where the "T" in Ontario is, just south of Rochester. If I'm not 6b on your map, then I'm like maybe 7a.

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 9, 2026

P Birch said:
1. New York requires permits for native turtle species, which would offer a hoop to jump through for eastern box turtles, which are native to the southeastern part of the state. Just something to be aware of. Perhaps a 3-toed box turtle would be something to consider?

2. A search for "outdoor enclosure" would set you up with some serious reading! And the enclosure pictures in the threads above provide a wealth of ideas. I enjoyed this thread and its photos from an experienced keeper in Arkansas:

New cinderblock habitat build!

I want to share my winter break project: building a new 25ft x 16.5ft tortoise habitat that shares walls with my other non-rectangular habitat. 🐢 🐢 🐢 🧱 Level foundation ✔️ Multiple elevation changes ✔️ Meshes with the existing other habitat wall ✔️ Muscles from hacking through shale ✔️...

tortoiseforum.org

3. I posted some photos of my enclosure in Year 1 and received welcome feedback and constructive criticism. If you searched the few threads I have there's some photos, conversation, and thoughtful recalibrations folks offered to tweak things.

4. Marginated-wise, the Leone's have a care sheet that's worth a look:

Marginated Tortoise Care Guide | hermannihavenhome

www.hermannihaven.com

5. My Russian is certainly thriving outdoors. Read up on brumation. In our climate it would be the wet that would doom things, if you took a hands-off approach and allowed the tortoise to freely choose a spot in the enclosure to dig down into. Do not do that. You need to take an active hand in brumation and ensure the proper conditions are met. Great info on that on this site.

6. Enjoy the research!

This is so much info, thank you so much!

First of all, I absolutely want to comply with all laws and regulations, as well as provide a quality home for any animal that we do bring home, if we do bring a new animal home.

I will absolutely do some more research on my own, but it's really great of you to provide me some direction

Could I please ask this; I'm absolutely open to any and all suggestions on what species to choose for my situation, my wife would enjoy any of them, so a lot comes down to what would be available right now from a quality breeder. But, is there any species I could look for that would live outside in my climate like 70%-100% of the time? Is there anything that would be fine most the time year, but then I'd have to bring it inside, and keep it in a thermostat protected and monitored dorm room fridge? Is that doable? Basically, let them transition naturally to brumation, but then bring them in before the brutal cold hits, and place them back outside after that brutal cold passes, allowing them to "wake up" naturally outside.

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 9, 2026

Maggie3fan said:
I have kept tortoisees and box turtle for years...I kept box turtles in the house in 6'x4' wooden tort tables, with an outside enclosure. So daily I would put them outside and bring them in at night. If I were you, I'd keep a couple of box turtles...they are personable, fun and not nearly the trouble to keep as are tortoises...my advice is to get a box turtle. You wouldn't need the government to know as long as they are not Easterns...I think. I had several different species of box turtles and they were very fun for me to keep. You can get a babyView attachment 400911
oh so cute, look at that faceView attachment 400912
these are an ornate, a 3 toed and an Eastern (I kept Eastern's in Oregon)View attachment 400913
My vote goes to a box turtle...they are much easier and fun to care for than tortoises...

Absolutely adorable, thank you!!

I believe my wife's prior was an Eastern, but she got it so many years ago, the laws may have been different. I know her dad got it at a local pet store at the time, but likely the store owner snagged the little guy as he was cutting through the owner's back yard lol!

Anyway, we'd be thrilled with a LEGAL box turtle. Can you keep more than one in a reasonably sized outdoor enclosure? And then they really *need* to be burmated, so can they live outside in my climate year round, or do I take them in curing the coldest few months?

Thank you very much for your help!

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 9, 2026

Guys, where can I start looking for a quality source for a tortoise or box turtle? Who has animals available at this time? I think I now have a good idea which direction I'm leaning, I'd like to see what's available and then research the needs of those species. Are there breeders here on TF.org? Would anyone trust an animal from Big Apple Herp? I know that they have been in business a long, long time, and they have Russins and Marginateds in stock at a price that I would expect to pay. What do you guys think?

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate it!

Maggie3fan · Jun 9, 2026

Luckie Turtle Man said:
Absolutely adorable, thank you!!

I believe my wife's prior was an Eastern, but she got it so many years ago, the laws may have been different. I know her dad got it at a local pet store at the time, but likely the store owner snagged the little guy as he was cutting through the owner's back yard lol!

Anyway, we'd be thrilled with a LEGAL box turtle. Can you keep more than one in a reasonably sized outdoor enclosure? And then they really *need* to be burmated, so can they live outside in my climate year round, or do I take them in curing the coldest few months?

Thank you very much for your help!

I have kept many different species of tortoises and box turtles and I have never hibernated any. Back when I started it was thought if you didn't breed them you didn't need to hibernate them. I didn't breed and didn't hibernate and they never seemed to suffer on account. Times got different, but I still never hibernated any...
now you will need a permit to keep an Eastern in your state

Tom · Jun 9, 2026

Luckie Turtle Man said:
Guys, where can I start looking for a quality source for a tortoise or box turtle? Who has animals available at this time? I think I now have a good idea which direction I'm leaning, I'd like to see what's available and then research the needs of those species. Are there breeders here on TF.org? Would anyone trust an animal from Big Apple Herp? I know that they have been in business a long, long time, and they have Russins and Marginateds in stock at a price that I would expect to pay. What do you guys think?

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate it!

Pick a species and then we can recommend breeders of that species. I would not recommend most big companies. Its best to deal with a person, rather than a company.

Fluffy · Jun 10, 2026

Luckie Turtle Man said:
Guys, where can I start looking for a quality source for a tortoise or box turtle? Who has animals available at this time? I think I now have a good idea which direction I'm leaning, I'd like to see what's available and then research the needs of those species. Are there breeders here on TF.org? Would anyone trust an animal from Big Apple Herp? I know that they have been in business a long, long time, and they have Russins and Marginateds in stock at a price that I would expect to pay. What do you guys think?

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate it!

If you decide on a Russian I would bet you could find one needing rehomed somewhere near you. Because they are common in pet stores they frequently end up needing new homes.

mark1 · Jun 10, 2026

Luckie Turtle Man said:
When I simply google my zip, it tells me I'm 6b. On your map, I'm right where the "T" in Ontario is, just south of Rochester. If I'm not 6b on your map, then I'm like maybe 7a.

your climate is very similar to mine, 6a and 6b intermingled........ you might get more snow than me, which is a good thing for ground temperatures........ i've never had a problem leaving eastern box turtles outdoors 24/7/365 in my climate........ i don't doubt a 3-toed would do fine, but their northern most populations are significantly south of ornates and easterns...... as someone said a russian tortoise needs a drier hibernacula than an eastern box turtle, i'm sure an ornates hibernacula is drier than an eastern also....... none of them should be allowed to flood, all should be high ground and south facing........ a tarp over the hibernacula keeps it dry, i have found too dry for eastern box turtles..........

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 11, 2026

Sorry about the late reply guys.

Fluffy said:
If you decide on a Russian I would bet you could find one needing rehomed somewhere near you. Because they are common in pet stores they frequently end up needing new homes.

I did look, but nothing besides Sulcatas came up in my area. Would it be wise to adopt or purchase a tortoise like that? I would be concerned that it may not have been well cared for. I think I'd prefer to deal with a breeder, but I don't know what's best.

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 11, 2026

mark1 said:
your climate is very similar to mine, 6a and 6b intermingled........ you might get more snow than me, which is a good thing for ground temperatures........ i've never had a problem leaving eastern box turtles outdoors 24/7/365 in my climate........ i don't doubt a 3-toed would do fine, but their northern most populations are significantly south of ornates and easterns...... as someone said a russian tortoise needs a drier hibernacula than an eastern box turtle, i'm sure an ornates hibernacula is drier than an eastern also....... none of them should be allowed to flood, all should be high ground and south facing........ a tarp over the hibernacula keeps it dry, i have found too dry for eastern box turtles..........

We get very little snow anymore, like almost nothing, which is a real bummer if you like skiing

As much as I'd like to keep a tortoise outside all year, if it's problematic, then what about bringing the tortoise inside to brumate over the winter? Could you not use something like a dorm fridge with a thermostat to burmate them?

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 11, 2026

Tom said:
Pick a species and then we can recommend breeders of that species. I would not recommend most big companies. Its best to deal with a person, rather than a company.

I get what you're saying, but I was hoping to find an available tortoise, and then research the specific needs of that animal. I think right now my top choices in no particular order would be a Russian, Marginated, or a New York legal box turtle like a 3 toed.

Would any of those animals be able to live outdoors all year in my climate in Upstate New York, USDA zone 6a?

Would an Eastern Box Turtle be able to live outside all year in my area, and how hard would it be to get whatever permits I would need to legal have one?

Honestly, my wife would be thrilled with ANY turtle, so I'm actually appealing to the community to help me select the best fit for my environment. Any help would be greatly appreciated

mark1 · Jun 11, 2026

Luckie Turtle Man said:
We get very little snow anymore, like almost nothing, which is a real bummer if you like skiing

As much as I'd like to keep a tortoise outside all year, if it's problematic, then what about bringing the tortoise inside to brumate over the winter? Could you not use something like a dorm fridge with a thermostat to brumate them?

to bad, snow cover is an excellent insulator, you must be a bit too south of the lake ....... i get winters with almost no snow cover to winters where we're buried in snow, either way it's not a problem, snow cover just makes it less of "not a problem"...... it all takes planning ....... ornate box turtles come from way worse climates than yours, probably the coldest of any box turtle.... russian tortoises come from way worse climates than yours also..... eastern box turtles come from exactly your climate ...... as far as a drier hibernacula, simple as throwing a tarp over it......... the hibernacula should be high ground...... when we get really cold without snow cover i throw a tarp over the eastern box turtles hibernacula dark side up silver side down and hope for some sun...... zero sub zero temps here always come with clear skies/full sun...... i've left the tarp on too long before and the hibernacula was bone dry when i took the tarp off....... i been careful since on getting the tarp off as soon as possible.... given what they need my turtles seem to have done ok left to the unpredictable whims of nature....... i find nature not unpredictable at all.......

this guy has been outside in my yard for the last 25 winters, i might see him 4-5 times a year.....

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 11, 2026

mark1 said:
to bad, snow cover is an excellent insulator, you must be a bit too south of the lake ....... i get winters with almost no snow cover to winters where we're buried in snow, either way it's not a problem, snow cover just makes it less of "not a problem"...... it all takes planning ....... ornate box turtles come from way worse climates than yours, probably the coldest of any box turtle.... russian tortoises come from way worse climates than yours also..... eastern box turtles come from exactly your climate ...... as far as a drier hibernacula, simple as throwing a tarp over it......... the hibernacula should be high ground...... when we get really cold without snow cover i throw a tarp over the eastern box turtles hibernacula dark side up silver side down and hope for some sun...... zero sub zero temps here always come with clear skies/full sun...... i've left the tarp on too long before and the hibernacula was bone dry when i took the tarp off....... i been careful since on getting the tarp off as soon as possible.... given what they need my turtles seem to have done ok left to the unpredictable whims of nature....... i find nature not unpredictable at all.......

this guy has been outside in my yard for the last 25 winters, i might see him 4-5 times a year.....

Thank you for the info and great pics!

Except for a few years here and there, I've largely lived in this area for 45 years, and we used to get a ton of snow, but we just don't anymore, for like the past ten years or so. Winters are noticeably milder than they used to be. I am about an hour or so drive from Buffalo NY where they still get so much snow many of their storms make national news, like when Buffalo Bills fans had to come shovel out the stadium so the Bills could play a football game. But where I am, very little snow anymore.

I have doing doing some more reading and thinking, and although I think it would be idea to leave a tortoise outside all year, I'm realizing that it's not exactly simple to do so, and I'm now wondering if a better plan is to bring my tortoise inside during the coldest few months of the year. I need to read more about brumation, but I believe it can be done indoors in a small fridge with a thermostat.

Luckie Turtle Man · Jun 11, 2026

Guys, I'm just going to say this again; I believe my wife would be thrilled with anything resembling a tortoise or turtle, so I'd like to ask the community for suggestions on what species would be a good fit for us please.

I think the size of the marginated tortoises is super impressive, but perhaps they are too big if I need to bring them inside during inclement weather or over the winter.

I do quite like the Russians, and if they could be kept outside year round, that's a plus. Or even if they could be kept inside for a few months I think that would be alright.

And, I've kind of been circling back to the box turtles. That was my wife's previous pet that she had for 35 years, they seem a little easier to care for than some of the other tortoises, and they are small if I have to bring them inside.

What do you guys think would be a good fit for me?

I think for now I'm looking for just one tortoise, and I also thought it read that it's best to keep them singularly if you're not breeding them. But, I'm seeing people who are keeping groups of tortoises together. What is best, single or groups? I'm quite sure this is species dependent, but out of the few I've named above, can any of these be kept in small groups with the right enclosure, or would I be best to stick to one tortoise per enclosure?

Thanks very much everyone!

Considering purchasing my wife a tortoise, and I have some noob questions please :-)

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

The Dog Trainer

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Similar threads

Subscribe to Our Newsletter