Littleredfootbigredheart
Well-Known Member
I can imagine once it’s in there it binds easier and builds up, whereas like you say, the coir can break away
Age estimate for baby redfoot
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Alex and the Redfoot
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Hello!
Peat moss has higher acidity which is not good for tortoise plastron (coco coir is pH neutral). Especially, for species prone to fungal infections as redfoots.
Also, I've heard that peat moss is hard to rehydrate again when it's dried out.
Impaction risk because of eaten moss is more about long stranded mosses like sphagnum.
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I believe your breeder was being truthful. Your tortoise appears to be roughly 3-4 months old in the photos you posted.
To me, a baby tortoise is a hatchling until it becomes roughly 10-12 months old, at which time it can be considered a yearling.
Thank you for your explanation! I do get caught up in things that I don’t understand. Peat is more prone to allowing for fungal growth as opposed to coco coir, which for plants is not an issue. It also can become hydrophobic but takes a while without moisture. Is there not concern over the salts left in coir? Or is coir for reptiles generally buffered? I can certainly look it up myself but in case you can provide an answer I appreciate it. Thank you again for your explanation.
Thank you for addressing my original question! That was all I really wanted to know. I have been working on getting all aspects of husbandry worked out. Admittedly should have been established before but the little one arrived ahead of my timeline so I had to make do with what I could get locally. I appreciate your response
Questions are good. Don't be sorry. Everyone here should be able to explain the assertions we make.
Peat moss, sphagnum moss, sphagnum peat moss, long fibered sphagnum peat moss, etc... are all used interchangeably to describe the same two things. The names are very confusing, but there are two different "peat" products that are commonly, albeit erroneously, recommended for tortoises, and there is a different problem with each one.
1. Peat moss. I'm referring here to the dirt-like stuff that is similar in consistency to coco coir. As Alex described, the problem with this stuff is that is can burn the tortoises plastron I considered using it myself, and my friend showed me what happened to his hatchlings on it. It wasn't pretty.
2. Long fibered sphagnum moss. This is the stuff that looks bushy and is often recommended as a way to raise humidity. It doesn't raise humidity any more than any other wetted media, and all tortoises will eventually eat it. It can cause impaction when too much is eaten in some circumstances. This stuff is almost universally recommended for RF enclosures, and SOOOO many people end up removing it because they catch their tortoise eating it like food.
Neither of these should be used for any species of tortoise, but especially not RFs which are prone to shell rot. Speaking of which, I don't like coco coir for RFs either because of their propensity for fungal infections on their plastrons. Coco coir has to be kept damp to prevent it from becoming dusty. It also needs to be damp to keep humidity up for a RF. All that dampness usually leads to the aforementioned shell rot. Best to use fine grade orchid bark for housing small indoor RFs. You can dump water into it to maintain humidity, but the surface layers can remain relatively dry. The size and shape of the particles also allows for more air movement between the plastron and the substrate which doesn't appeal to fungi.
About your original age question, there is no way to tell the age by looking. There are two many variables in how they are started after hatching and how they are housed and cared for. 3-4 months certainly seems reasonable and I don't see any glaring red flags that would make me think otherwise.
Alex and the Redfoot
Well-Known Member
I would not be too concerned about salts - haven't seen any issues with it. So I didn't even dive into buffering topic. I don't use plain coir extensively, though - only for the humid box in the outside enclosure.
However, reptile-marketed coco coir can have higher quality over garden store bought one: less fibers, more even ground and easier to rehydrate. To rehydrate the bricks I've got from my local garden store, I had to bash them with hammer from all sides - otherwise it stayed dry inside even overnight.
COmtnLady
Well-Known Member
J put my brick of coco coir into a five gallon bucket (that has never been used for anything involving cleaning chemicals, or other noxious residue. It has to be food grade or a never before used bucket) and let it soak for hours, sometimes overnight, adding water if needed.
I occasionally stir it, or reach in with a hand and break it apart once it is soft enough to do so.
When it is completely separated and hydrated, I squeeze the water out by hand and press it into a colander to wring out more water.
Then press it into the bottom of the emptied out and already cleaned enclosure, to about 3-4 inches thick. It should be "wrung out" enough that you can't see any pooling of water. If its too wet it will make the next layer wet, too, which causes problems with fungus on plastrons and even an overgrowth on the substrate.
Then a dry layer of the orchid bark goes on top of it, also 3-4 inches deep.
This major clean out only happens once a year or so. There is no need to change the substrate more often than that if you've set it up right to start with. Plus it takes a week to tear everything apart, scrub it out, let it dry, re-build the enclosure, and so on.
That said, I trust Tom to know infinitely more than I do about healthy Tortoises, and he just said. above, that he doesn't use the coco coir. So, you could do that, instead.
Whatever you do, ditch the moss. No potting soil, or yard dirt, either.
The temps and humidity are super important, as is the good UVB tube bulb.
No basking lights. Red Foots don't like bright light, they evolved on the floor of densely vegetated (eg: shaded) areas. Be sure to check the temperature at the level where your tortoise lives.
Be sure to have a closed chamber (so the heat and humidity don't waft away into the room, doing your tortoise no good).
Soak your tortoise in shallow warm water for twenty minutes or a half an hour every day until it is older (although, its fine to soak the older ones that often, too. I only do every other day for mine). Keep your eye on the water temperature, it cools off fast and your tortoise wants/needs it to be warm.
Have you read through this a couple times yet? All the info above is in it.
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I occasionally stir it, or reach in with a hand and break it apart once it is soft enough to do so.
When it is completely separated and hydrated, I squeeze the water out by hand and press it into a colander to wring out more water.
Then press it into the bottom of the emptied out and already cleaned enclosure, to about 3-4 inches thick. It should be "wrung out" enough that you can't see any pooling of water. If its too wet it will make the next layer wet, too, which causes problems with fungus on plastrons and even an overgrowth on the substrate.
Then a dry layer of the orchid bark goes on top of it, also 3-4 inches deep.
This major clean out only happens once a year or so. There is no need to change the substrate more often than that if you've set it up right to start with. Plus it takes a week to tear everything apart, scrub it out, let it dry, re-build the enclosure, and so on.
That said, I trust Tom to know infinitely more than I do about healthy Tortoises, and he just said. above, that he doesn't use the coco coir. So, you could do that, instead.
Whatever you do, ditch the moss. No potting soil, or yard dirt, either.
The temps and humidity are super important, as is the good UVB tube bulb.
No basking lights. Red Foots don't like bright light, they evolved on the floor of densely vegetated (eg: shaded) areas. Be sure to check the temperature at the level where your tortoise lives.
Be sure to have a closed chamber (so the heat and humidity don't waft away into the room, doing your tortoise no good).
Soak your tortoise in shallow warm water for twenty minutes or a half an hour every day until it is older (although, its fine to soak the older ones that often, too. I only do every other day for mine). Keep your eye on the water temperature, it cools off fast and your tortoise wants/needs it to be warm.
Have you read through this a couple times yet? All the info above is in it.
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