Alarming behavior in hatchling

[SweetKaykes]

Since I got him my little guy he has been rubbing his face. It has become more consistent lately. I thought maybe it was because I was misinformed and started with walnut shell as his substrate. We removed that and replaced it with coco. This has not solved the issue, it has gotten worse.
On top of that, I fed him aloe the day before yesterday and since then he has become lethargic. He hasn’t eaten anything else. He falls asleep in the water when I soak him in the morning. He doesn’t eat after his bath, he goes straight to the CHE and falls asleep. He was very active before this. I was told aloe was safe for him.
Has anyone experienced either of these? Please help.
His base temperature has never gone below 80f.
His basking spot stays between 105-110.
His humidity has been between 70 and 80%.
His only substrate is coco.
His diet was mostly greens, he especially liked kale and dandelion greens.

 

[wellington]

When you say substrate is coco, is it coconut coir or the coco shells they sell or used to seek at places like menard's?
If the coco from places like menards get rid of it asap.
If it's coconut coir it's okay.
What type of bulbs are you using?
A picture of your enclosure and the tortoise might help us.

 

[Melis]

What types of bulbs are you using?

 

[SweetKaykes]

When you say substrate is coco, is it coconut coir or the coco shells they sell or used to seek at places like menard's?
If the coco from places like menards get rid of it asap.
If it's coconut coir it's okay.
What type of bulbs are you using?
A picture of your enclosure and the tortoise might help us.

I am using 100% coco coir.
The instructions that came with the tortoise said to use a 5 uvb bulb. We got the coil bulb for reptiles and I am just reading that those are a terrible decision. What bulb would you recommend? Could this cause his recent behaviors?

 

[SweetKaykes]

I just soaked him again in hopes of him becoming more awake, but he fell asleep in the water. I put him back in his home and he started walking to the CHE but kept wiping his face and just stopped and fell asleep. I am so worried.

 

[daniellenc]

Continue soaks and don’t be afraid to add some carrot baby food. Replace the coil bulb with a tube style fluorescent and make sure while soaking you rinse his mouth and eyes. Aloe is sticky but a safe tort food so hopefully his just needs a good bath.

How long have you had him? How old is he?

 

[SweetKaykes]

I do not know his exact age, but he fits in the palm of my hand and I have small hands. I would guess a few months old. We just got him a couple weeks ago. We bought him from tortoisetown.com. Which surprisingly is where I got most of my outdated information.

 

[kazjimmy]

New hatchling sleep a lot. Just leave the baby alone in the stable condition for couple days. New tortoise owner usually mistakingly think they own a puppy.

 

[wellington]

The bulb does need to be replaced. It can cause eye problems. He may have been scratching at his eyes because of the bulb but the rest of the things he's doing most likely is not the bulb.
Get him set up in a closed chamber if he isn't. Be sure too read temps and humidity at his level and with a reliable thermometer not those disc type the pet stores sell. A point and shoot temp gun and a digital thermometer are great to have and not expensive.
Post better pic of the whole enclosure. I'm guessing that temps are not what you say they are at his level unless it is a closed chamber.
The carrot soaks mentioned might help and also add piedialyte to the soak water along with the carrots.

 

[wellington]

New hatchling sleep a lot. Just leave the baby alone in the stable condition for couple days. New tortoise owner usually mistakingly think they own a puppy.

Healthy babies don't scratch at faces all the time and usually don't fall asleep in the soak. Leaving things alone is not the answer and could make things worse. Until we know the set up is correct it's not wise to tell someone to just sit back and wait.

 

[Tom]

The face wiping is a clue that the cfl bulb might be hurting his eyes. How close to the tortoise is it mounted? Get rid of it ASAP.

What type of basking bulb have you got?

How are you maintaining humidity of 70-80%? Closed top?

Is the coco coir dry or damp? Fine grade orchid bark works better for them and is less messy. Does the coir get in his eyes?

Have you done a search and read the reviews for Tortoise Town? The care the baby received, (Or didn't receive...) might be the problem.

 

[SweetKaykes]

New hatchling sleep a lot. Just leave the baby alone in the stable condition for couple days. New tortoise owner usually mistakingly think they own a puppy.

I just know how he has been acting everyday, and how the last 2 days he has not been good.

The face wiping is a clue that the cfl bulb might be hurting his eyes. How close to the tortoise is it mounted? Get rid of it ASAP.

What type of basking bulb have you got?

How are you maintaining humidity of 70-80%? Closed top?

Is the coco coir dry or damp? Fine grade orchid bark works better for them and is less messy. Does the coir get in his eyes?

Have you done a search and read the reviews for Tortoise Town? The care the baby received, (Or didn't receive...) might be the problem.

The light is about 18” up, but I will replace it immediately.

I have a ceramic heater for his basking spot

He is not closed top, and I was not interested in one at first, but now I’m thinking it might be a good idea. We have this room set up with heat and humidity, like an indoor garden, all remote controlled. I have the read on the floor next to his area. I also have a little humidifier set up in the room. I have taken a picture to show you what it says the room is. I also have a thermometer gun to read the temps in his area.

I have been spraying everything down multiple times a day, although it dries out pretty quickly under the basking spot.

I will research more about tortoise town, I really didn’t think to do that before. They seemed knowledgeable and we bought food and seeds from them.

 

[SweetKaykes]

Here is what the thermometer reads at floor level.

 

[Mel from hell]

Since I got him my little guy he has been rubbing his face. It has become more consistent lately. I thought maybe it was because I was misinformed and started with walnut shell as his substrate. We removed that and replaced it with coco. This has not solved the issue, it has gotten worse.
On top of that, I fed him aloe the day before yesterday and since then he has become lethargic. He hasn’t eaten anything else. He falls asleep in the water when I soak him in the morning. He doesn’t eat after his bath, he goes straight to the CHE and falls asleep. He was very active before this. I was told aloe was safe for him.
Has anyone experienced either of these? Please help.
His base temperature has never gone below 80f.
His basking spot stays between 105-110.
His humidity has been between 70 and 80%.
His only substrate is coco.
His diet was mostly greens, he especially liked kale and dandelion greens.

Yes. I agree. Don’t watch n See.
Since he was seemingly worse since the aloe ingestion, he may b allergic. Could b liver problems, but that’s 200$ bucks n stress, to deduce. Or, allergic to his bedding or aloe. Could b an external parasite, too. Wet ur finger n lightly rub the area best u can. Get some skin cells. Wipe it on a magnifier. Look at under a bright bulb of any sort. If it’s moving? Then, that’s the issue. But I kinda feel it’s an allergic reaction, for him to fall so fast. It sounds like a situational issue. Improper lighting, and so on while great husbandry advice, I? Read it like it’s pretty sudden n dramatic, so again I think it’s his body rejecting something he ate or walked in, etc. I saw a healthy dog die once, after eating 4, altoid mints.A crazy, undiagnosable reaction. It can b even the smallest of something he’s just allergic to.
Perhaps, the Aloe. I personally, never feed aloe. Why? Just my gut. I prefer to use it topically

Don’t soak him, till you’ve tried the following:
Lightly moisten a towel. Put him on that, in his tank. Keep humidity, In his space n make it very warm, his air. Boil a chamomile tea bag. Cool. Leave enough volume to get fluid out of.
Apply to his face. If he pulls in,squeeze some
Over his face n b careful he does not choke. Hold him at a slight, head down posture if ur worried cause he’s pretty small squeeze some onto all fleshy areas, too for good measure. Do this several times a day. Give him like, 3 sm drops of liquid vitamins if u have access. Wait a few hours. No improvement?
Bust open a vitamin E gel tablet. Lightly!
Again, put it on all flesh u can. Don’t get too much in his eyes if u can help it. Wait maybe 6 hours or so. No calming down? Mix calamine to 1 part water. Put some lightly on neck n exposed flesh like before. This could b a histamine reaction to an allergen. So it may, have to “ wear” off. But he’s losing time. Please, try some of these topical things. It may b that simple.
Getting nutrients of Any sort in him is a BIG, deal here as well. Nourish him so he can stay alive, TO fight this. Do u have a cat? If he’s getting worse, put a TINY amount of Canned cat food in his mouth n rub under his neck till he swallows it. You have nothing to lose here, by the sound of ur post. So go for it. I have personally tried, every thing I’ve written n had some very good results. You can also, try Glycerin gel, too if he’s still itching. I am very anxious for him to beat this. He could just have failure to thrive but I hope not. Please let us know what’s happening.
It sounds like ur doing everything outside of this event, perfectly. Please don’t get discouraged, ok? It’s not your fault. You’re asking for help from the best place possible.

 

[SweetKaykes]

Yes. I agree. Don’t watch n See.
Since he was seemingly worse since the aloe ingestion, he may b allergic. Could b liver problems, but that’s 200$ bucks n stress, to deduce. Or, allergic to his bedding or aloe. Could b an external parasite, too. Wet ur finger n lightly rub the area best u can. Get some skin cells. Wipe it on a magnifier. Look at under a bright bulb of any sort. If it’s moving? Then, that’s the issue. But I kinda feel it’s an allergic reaction, for him to fall so fast. It sounds like a situational issue. Improper lighting, and so on while great husbandry advice, I? Read it like it’s pretty sudden n dramatic, so again I think it’s his body rejecting something he ate or walked in, etc. I saw a healthy dog die once, after eating 4, altoid mints.A crazy, undiagnosable reaction. It can b even the smallest of something he’s just allergic to.
Perhaps, the Aloe. I personally, never feed aloe. Why? Just my gut. I prefer to use it topically

Don’t soak him, till you’ve tried the following:
Lightly moisten a towel. Put him on that, in his tank. Keep humidity, In his space n make it very warm, his air. Boil a chamomile tea bag. Cool. Leave enough volume to get fluid out of.
Apply to his face. If he pulls in,squeeze some
Over his face n b careful he does not choke. Hold him at a slight, head down posture if ur worried cause he’s pretty small squeeze some onto all fleshy areas, too for good measure. Do this several times a day. Give him like, 3 sm drops of liquid vitamins if u have access. Wait a few hours. No improvement?
Bust open a vitamin E gel tablet. Lightly!
Again, put it on all flesh u can. Don’t get too much in his eyes if u can help it. Wait maybe 6 hours or so. No calming down? Mix calamine to 1 part water. Put some lightly on neck n exposed flesh like before. This could b a histamine reaction to an allergen. So it may, have to “ wear” off. But he’s losing time. Please, try some of these topical things. It may b that simple.
Getting nutrients of Any sort in him is a BIG, deal here as well. Nourish him so he can stay alive, TO fight this. Do u have a cat? If he’s getting worse, put a TINY amount of Canned cat food in his mouth n rub under his neck till he swallows it. You have nothing to lose here, by the sound of ur post. So go for it. I have personally tried, every thing I’ve written n had some very good results. You can also, try Glycerin gel, too if he’s still itching. I am very anxious for him to beat this. He could just have failure to thrive but I hope not. Please let us know what’s happening.
It sounds like ur doing everything outside of this event, perfectly. Please don’t get discouraged, ok? It’s not your fault. You’re asking for help from the best place possible.

Thank you so much for all your help. I am going to do exactly what you say and will update on any changes.
I do not have any liquid vitamins, where can I buy this?

 

[Yvonne G]

Erm-m-m-m. . . I don't know about all that. Seems like too much interference to me. I would just stick with the daily soaks, warm, humid environment and get rid of that light. I like the enclosure, however, even though your room is humid, the open enclosure probably isn't humid enough. You can remedy that by adding quite a few plants in there. The plants will hold the warm, humid air down closer to the tortoise. The plants also help the baby to feel more secure. Because they're prey, they don't like to be out in the open.

And cat food? I don't think so. This is a grass-eating species. Adding animal protein to his very, very young and tender system isn't the best idea I've heard of.

 

[Cheryl Hills]

Thank you so much for all your help. I am going to do exactly what you say and will update on any changes.
I do not have any liquid vitamins, where can I buy this?

I don’t think liquid vitamins are going to do much. If your baby has hatchling failure syndrome, not much will help. I would go with raising your temps some, daily soaks and use the carrot baby food in the soaks. The place you got your tort from is very notorious for selling sick babies and a lot of them die. Soaking and temps are probable your best bet for pulling him through. If this baby was raise dry, like most from this place, it could have damaged the kidneys and other organs. Also, using different herbs, rubbed on the baby or eaten by the baby, could be very detrimental. Just because it is good for people, does not mean it is good for torts. Many things, like cedar for example, irritate thetorts, and cause problems. I would not use these things on my torts.

 

[Melis]

Thank you so much for all your help. I am going to do exactly what you say and will update on any changes.
I do not have any liquid vitamins, where can I buy this?

Please please PLEASE do your due diligence and reserach the users on this forum when taking advice. Overall, I believe most have good intentions, but not everyone has the knowledge or experience to be giving out advice, especially medical advice.
Hopefully you stick around on the forum and you’ll start to see who is who. We have many old timers who have tons of experience. Yvonne has given great advice above.

 

[SweetKaykes]

Erm-m-m-m. . . I don't know about all that. Seems like too much interference to me. I would just stick with the daily soaks, warm, humid environment and get rid of that light. I like the enclosure, however, even though your room is humid, the open enclosure probably isn't humid enough. You can remedy that by adding quite a few plants in there. The plants will hold the warm, humid air down closer to the tortoise. The plants also help the baby to feel more secure. Because they're prey, they don't like to be out in the open.

And cat food? I don't think so. This is a grass-eating species. Adding animal protein to his very, very young and tender system isn't the best idea I've heard of.

I just got the seeds to plant, I didn’t want to plant anything already grown cuz I wouldn’t know for sure if it was sprayed with pesticides or not. I did put him on a warm wet microfiber cloth and set it where he has been sleeping.
I see you are an admin, what light/brand would you recommend? My husband has t5’s on hand, would that be acceptable?

 

[daniellenc]

I just got the seeds to plant, I didn’t want to plant anything already grown cuz I wouldn’t know for sure if it was sprayed with pesticides or not. I did put him on a warm wet microfiber cloth and set it where he has been sleeping.
I see you are an admin, what light/brand would you recommend? My husband has t5’s on hand, would that be acceptable?

T5's are fine depending on how many inches away it is from the tortoise. Arcadia is a popular brand but height really is the most important factor.