Alternative to heat lamp?

[DavenShaz]

Hi,

I have had my Russian Tortoises for a year now and everything was great until Shaz flashed a couple of times and started biting Dave (now realise Shaz is a boy, I also really think Dave is a girl)

I need to seperate them and the most ideal thing to do to maximise their space is to have one on top of the other but to do that the heat lamp would hang far too low.

Is there anything I can get that will emit enough heat for them to bask that doesn’t hang? It needs to sit flush on the ceiling of their enclosure really.

Also, I halved their enclose for the time being but over the last few days have let Shaz back in when supervised and he seems to be ok with Dave. I’m debating trusting him to stay but Dave is so chilled I’d be gutted if he bit him again.

Thoughts?

Thank you 😊

 

[ZEROPILOT]

An incandescent light bulb can produce heat just by its design

 

[DavenShaz]

An incandescent light bulb can produce heat just by its design

Wouldn’t it still have to hang above his basking area though? I have googled but I can’t find whether a pad that emits heat exists. Do you think creating lots of places Dave can hide and a second basking area would be fair on him? Or should I say.. her.

Thankyou for your reply

 

[Tom]

Wouldn’t it still have to hang above his basking area though? I have googled but I can’t find whether a pad that emits heat exists. Do you think creating lots of places Dave can hide and a second basking area would be fair on him? Or should I say.. her.

Thankyou for your reply

No. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. The sexes don't matter and Russian torts are one of the worst. Even the females can be hyper aggressive and territorial. They need separate enclosures permanently.

You need a basking lamp for both. There is no substitute indoors.

This may help:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Also this one:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[DavenShaz]

No. Tortoises should never be housed in pairs. The sexes don't matter and Russian torts are one of the worst. Even the females can be hyper aggressive and territorial. They need separate enclosures permanently.

You need a basking lamp for both. There is no substitute indoors.

This may help:
There are four elements to heating and lighting:

1. Basking bulb. I use 65 watt incandescent floods from the hardware store. Some people will need bigger, or smaller wattage bulbs. Let your thermometer be your guide. I run them on a timer for about 12 hours and adjust the height to get the correct basking temp under them. I also like to use a flat rock of some sort directly under the bulb. You need to check the temp with a thermometer directly under the bulb and get it to around 95-100F (36-37C).
2. Ambient heat maintenance. I use ceramic heating elements or radiant heat panels set on thermostats to maintain ambient above 80 degrees day and night for tropical species. In most cases you'd only need day heat for a temperate species like Testudo or DT, as long as your house stays above 60F (15-16C) at night.
3. Ambient light. I use LEDs for this purpose. Something in the 5000-6500K color range will look the best. Most bulbs at the store are in the 2500K range and they look yellowish. Strip or screw-in LED bulb types are both fine.
4. UV. If you can get your tortoise outside for an hour 2 or 3 times a week, you won't need indoor UV. In colder climates, get one of the newer HO type fluorescent tubes. Which type will depend on mounting height. 5.0 bulbs make almost no UV. I like the 12% HO bulbs from Arcadia. You need a meter to check this: https://www.solarmeter.com/model65.html A good UV bulb only needs to run for 2-3 hours mid day. You need the basking bulb and the ambient lighting to be on at least 12 hours a day.

Also this one:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you.

I thought so, 99% of the time they do seem to nose boop really gently and sleep together so I thought if they like the company it’s a shame to split them but I also knew it’s inevitable.

I already have the 12% Arcadia UVB light that is long enough to cover both enclosures if I split in half. I don’t have a thermometer in the basking area, Iv had about 5 and they both trashed them all so my lamp is on a slight angle on rocks so they can choose how hot they want it.

They are around 18 months old and their enclosure is 4.5ft by 3ft, what I think I will do it split them in half and build them both an upstairs to create more surface area for them. There’s not much more I can do for now, I just dont have the space for another enclosure of this size so I need time to rearrange the house, failing that, bin the sofa 😆

Thankyou for your reply it was really helpful

 

[Lyn W]

Thank you.

I thought so, 99% of the time they do seem to nose boop really gently and sleep together so I thought if they like the company it’s a shame to split them but I also knew it’s inevitable.

Bullying behaviour such as following, close contact, mounting, nudging etc is often mistaken for affection but is really one tort telling the other to get out of his space. It can get more aggressive with biting, barging, tipping over etc. which can cause serious injury or even death. The stress of sharing can also make them prone to illness, so separation is the only way to keep them happy and healthy.
They will soon need a minimum space of 4 x 8 feet each so I hope you find a good solution for their enclosures.

 

[Tom]

I thought so, 99% of the time they do seem to nose boop really gently and sleep together so ...

This is tortoise aggression. Each telling the other to get out mod my territory and trying to crowd the other out. The chronic stress of this un-winable battle can eventually kill them.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Several months ago I took in 3 Russians to foster. 2 males and a female. The 1 male and the female are heavy and lookin good, the second male is a miniature tortoise, a perfect miniature Russian. He was so light I almost could not feel him on my palm. I put the 2 bigger ones in one pen and the other by himself. Then came winter so the two were put in tort table alone, and the little tort by himself. He's eating like there's no tomorrow, the 2 seem to be having a little trouble...so I started paying attention...she got a couple of bloody bite marks...now all 3 are in tort tables alone at night, and in 3 different pens outside and they act better, they eat better, so please take what we are saying and you need to seriously figure what to do. Maybe keep one and adopt out the other? You have a yard?
Here's the miniature and the female...
this is the big male...he's real heavy and needs a beak trim. None of the 3 seem to know how to graze or even mostly know what's food...
Please separate your tortoises that's classic bullying

 

[DavenShaz]

Several months ago I took in 3 Russians to foster. 2 males and a female. The 1 male and the female are heavy and lookin good, the second male is a miniature tortoise, a perfect miniature Russian. He was so light I almost could not feel him on my palm. I put the 2 bigger ones in one pen and the other by himself. Then came winter so the two were put in tort table alone, and the little tort by himself. He's eating like there's no tomorrow, the 2 seem to be having a little trouble...so I started paying attention...she got a couple of bloody bite marks...now all 3 are in tort tables alone at night, and in 3 different pens outside and they act better, they eat better, so please take what we are saying and you need to seriously figure what to do. Maybe keep one and adopt out the other? You have a yard?
Here's the miniature and the female...View attachment 342109
this is the big male...he's real heavy and needs a beak trim. None of the 3 seem to know how to graze or even mostly know what's food...View attachment 342110
Please separate your tortoises that's classic bullying

Bullying behaviour such as following, close contact, mounting, nudging etc is often mistaken for affection but is really one tort telling the other to get out of his space. It can get more aggressive with biting, barging, tipping over etc. which can cause serious injury or even death. The stress of sharing can also make them prone to illness, so separation is the only way to keep them happy and healthy.
They will soon need a minimum space of 4 x 8 feet each so I hope you find a good solution for their enclosures.

I know they need 8ft x 4ft each but I am a while off that yet. For now my primary focus will be keeping them both at 4.5ft by 3ft each seen as they’re only about 4 inches long, they will have what they need.

 

[DavenShaz]

Hi Maggie,

I think you might have completely missed the point of my post or maybe not read it properly but I was asking about lamps so I could create a 2nd enclosure so Dave will be in 1 and Shaz the other, if I’m not mistaken I think that means they’ll be separated, I also said I knew it was inevitable but thankyou, I have took your comments on board. Just to confirm before you start crying on your next reply.. both tortoises are in seperate enclosures. As in not together, can’t get to each other, can’t even see each other actually. Also, non have injuries and are certainly not dying. Thanks again.

 

[Maggie3fan]

Hi Maggie,

I think you might have completely missed the point of my post or maybe not read it properly but I was asking about lamps so I could create a 2nd enclosure so Dave will be in 1 and Shaz the other, if I’m not mistaken I think that means they’ll be separated, I also said I knew it was inevitable but thankyou, I have took your comments on board. Just to confirm before you start crying on your next reply.. both tortoises are in seperate enclosures. As in not together, can’t get to each other, can’t even see each other actually. Also, non have injuries and are certainly not dying. Thanks again.

nice...really... when you see as much damage with Russians as I have then maybe you might qualify for sarcasm...erk

 

[DavenShaz]

nice...really... when you see as much damage with Russians as I have then maybe you might qualify for sarcasm...erk

I won’t ever see as much damage as you have because at the first sight of one being aggressive towards the other I have separated. Again, the whole point of the post… erk.

I get that your out for tortoise welfare ect but I’m not an idiot.

Lyn W.. Of course when I feel they need an extra few feet each, an extra few feet each is what they will get. That will be square feet just to be clear.

Thankyou very much to all replies on this post but I have solved the problem by halving the enclosure and building a 2nd tier each. They’re in a coffee table so height is restricted but if a 3rd tier can be made, it will be this week.

** along comes someone to shoot me for having them in a coffee table **

 

[Maggie3fan]

I won’t ever see as much damage as you have because at the first sight of one being aggressive towards the other I have separated. Again, the whole point of the post… erk.

I get that your out for tortoise welfare ect but I’m not an idiot.

Lyn W.. Of course when I feel they need an extra few feet each, an extra few feet each is what they will get. That will be square feet just to be clear.

Thankyou very much to all replies on this post but I have solved the problem by halving the enclosure and building a 2nd tier each. They’re in a coffee table so height is restricted but if a 3rd tier can be made, it will be this week.

** along comes someone to shoot me for having them in a coffee table **

I have operated a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue for almost 20 years, and my sister has operated a large chelonian rescue for over 30 years. I was simply trying to share my experience. You've taken away the area that a Russian should have now. . You are doing so many things wrong and yet you get mad at the offer of advice. I'll take my offer of advice to someone who cares about making their tortoises lives better.

 

[DavenShaz]

I have operated a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue for almost 20 years, and my sister has operated a large chelonian rescue for over 30 years. I was simply trying to share my experience. You've taken away the area that a Russian should have now. . You are doing so many things wrong and yet you get mad at the offer of advice. I'll take my offer of advice to someone who cares about making their tortoises lives better.

That’s all very well Maggie but I don’t operate a small special needs turtle and tortoise rescue so I won’t see the injuries you have, nor will my tortoises.

Please bullet point the many things I am doing wrong. I look forward to reading them.

Thank you