Another sickness problem with my Egyptian tortoise

DrGrillz

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Last month I posted about how my 19 year old male T. kleinmanni passed in a matter of 2 weeks. I was devastated, as it was my favorite and having him for so many years. I still do not know the actual cause of death and its too late now.

I have since found a more competent veterinarian thanks to a member's recommendation of a site. A few days ago, my wife and I noticed something very unusual regarding one of our remaining 2 tortoises. The male was dragging his hind legs as he tried to walk around in his enclosure. I looked at him and found no signs of injuries. He has feelings and can move his limbs, but not for walking purposes. Obviously, this behavior scared me and I called the vet clinic and scheduled for a visit the following morning.

He's been active, but not as active as he was just afew days earlier. Before, he would literally pounce on the greens when he sees fresh food being brought. Now he has shown no interest in the food and just waddles away dragging his rear legs. I have placed them in a new enclosure that is 6x2, with a hidden "home" and 3 basket homes used for hiding. They are kept on paper towels with some hay grass liberally added. I feed them store-bought organic salads mixed with oxbow's critical care supplement and Fluker's calcium (phosphorus free). I have 3 lamps... one is a ceramic heat emitter, then 2 UVA/UVB Reptiglo lamps (bought last month). I sprayed them with water during feeding time and make sure their food is nice and moist to ensure water intake.

Now, at the Vet... she immediately took several radiographs. The radiographs did not show anything unusual, no blockages detected. She did mention that the front limbs (humerus) show signs of hyper-calcification but no where else. I looked at the radiographs closer and saw little opaque specs which I thought might be calcium that he's been fed. The vet said that she does not entirely know what they were but could be the supplements in the GI track. In addition, blood work was taken to check whats going.

While at the Vet, both of my tortoises have had RNS. I thought while we're there, to have it treated again. She prescribed oral Baytril which I am syringe feeding the sick male and my wife has a way of feeding the shy female with her food.

In the next few days, I should hear back from the Vet regarding the blood work. Currently, it is day #3 that the male has not eaten or shown interest in eating. During the day, I took him outside as it was sunny and he walked around dragging his rear limbs in the grass. However, in the evening, he would not open his eyes and just remain very lethargic. I have soaked him for 15-20 minutes only to see him sleeping in the water bowl without much movement. I am starting to worry now... its amazing how quickly they can get sick. Its as if they had an on-off switch :-( Advise or thoughts on what could possibly be going on would be appreciated!
 
M

Maggie Cummings

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I looked up your Reptiglo bulb and they are a spiral bulb, that hurts a tortoise' eyes making blinding a great possibility. I had a yearling Sulcata that was blinded by a coil bulb. I would recommend getting rid of that bulb right away and using an incandescent bulb until you get another basking bulb. Get a flood type not a coil.
 

Yvonne G

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I recommend warm water soaks. Sometimes if a tortoise has a lot of feces that needs to pass, it presses on the nerves and causes back leg problems.

Another thing is the paper towells. I know this makes it easy for you to clean, however, its not good for a tortoise's joints. They need something they can get traction on.
 

DrGrillz

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Hi Yvonne, you might be on to something. I noticed he's not had a BM in some time. I've been soaking him daily for a minimum on 15-20 minutes but have not gotten any response. Today, he's just sat in his current position and just slept nearly the entire day. If I gently pull his front limbs out, he'll after some time open his eyes and look at me. However, he's not shown any interest in food.

I'll be calling the Vet tomorrow if I don't see any BM from him till then.

Also, how often would you say they should have a BM? I've not really paid attention but haven't seen any in the enclosure. I will add some more items to the enclosure to provide them with an uneven ground to give them more of an obstacle course.
 

Yvonne G

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My tortoises poop every day. Some species twice or more a day. I pick up the poop daily, so its easy for me to see if they are pooping or not.
 

ascott

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You can also offer a bite sized treat filled with a touch of mineral oil....also make the soaks a bit longer --like 30 minutes to an hour and maintain the water so it is warm the entire time....if the weather is good where you are, you can do the soak outdoors partially in the sun and shade (make sure the tort can move about so when they begin to want out they will move about and the motion is a good aid in getting the system active)...I would also make sure to peek in on the tort to assure if he flips you can right him again....You can also feed items full of water, cucumber--zucchini- romaine lettuce and such...
 

DrGrillz

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Unfortunately, there has been no improvements. Still no bowel movements nor much energy from him. A few days ago, I noticed edema in his rear legs (close to his shell). I went back to the Vet clinic, but the exotic specialist was out of town. I had another vet administer fluids subcutaneously. His limbs were swollen, but have slightly gotten better... but still swollen.

Blood work has come back and all values were in the norm. I'm waiting to hear back from the exotic specialist who will return tomorrow.

Until then, I'm still administering Baytril in a syrup solution daily as required orally. I soak him daily for about half hour now... but he simply lies in there with no movement.

Can this be a renal issue? Radiographs did not show any signs of anything abnormal... and blood work results had all values in the norm. Don't know what is going on... and its frustrating!!!
 

tortadise

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I'd recommend a cloacal flush. Will be a little difficult with such a small species(especially being male). Keep soaking. My Egyptians defecate daily and more so when soaked. Especially the smaller, younger ones. Keep in mind too that Egyptians have splay jointed hind limbs so they can fit them sideways to escape extreme heat naturally. But definitely dragging them is a concern. Some pressure for sure is being administered within the hind of that animal. Mineral oil as described is good too. Sterile saline flush into the cloaca is best though. I would let your vet do it though.

The hyper calcification is odd to me. These guys utilize a boat load of calcium in their system because of their super fast metabolism especially in this species. They utilize a lot of it. Birthday being said if they don't properly get enough UVA.UVB and UVC rays it won't quite be utilized the same. That's another story that I think really doesn't play too heavily into this issue though.
 

Dorrie Siu

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Try feeding cactus pads if you can. Peel the skin away and just give the flesh. If you have to, cut it up into smaller pieces so that he can just take it a mouthful at a time. It tends to be sticky so if they have to bite it, it annoys them because it sticks to their beak. Cactus will make them poo.
 
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