Beaks.....MBD???

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Falcon70

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Hey Everyone,

I've had my tortoises for 4 years now, but over the past few months I've noticed both of my russians beaks are overgrown. They are still eating fine, especially the female (she eats everything as soon as I put it in her enclosure), but I am worried that it may be a sign of MBD. They are fed either Romaine, green/red leaf, kale, or mixed veggies with the zoomed grassland tortoise diet and calcium mixed in a few times a week. They also have an outdoor enclosure that they are in almost everyday. I've tried to give them cuttle bone and feed them on hard surfaces, but neither seem to be helping much.

My first question is if there is a way in which I could trim their beaks without a vet visit if possible, would a nail file work? I am also wondering if they are showing signs of MBD and what I can do to help reverse it?

Thanks guys,

Jake
 

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Eweezyfosheezy

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What kind of bedding are you using? Also an overgrown beak doesnt always mean MBD. It can just be from not having anything to file it down. I have an adult leopard that I got from the previous owners that kept her outside but only fed her greens so there was nothing to file it down ever and it became overgrown due to that. Do you keep them inside everyday all day? Do you use a UVB? Can you post a pic of the whole body of both russians?
 

Falcon70

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For the two indoor enclosures I use aspen shavings, and the outdoor enclosure in dirt, sand, and grass. They are outside for the majority of the day whenever it's nice, which is most of the year in NC. Because of this, I don't have a UVB light.

The female is the larger one. I was told the yellow band was because of both her diet and eating too much, so I have changed that.
 

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GeoTerraTestudo

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My understanding is that in MBD, whether the beak is overgrown or not, it tends to jut forward. These two guys have more or less vertical beaks, so although they are overgrown, I don't think they are indicative of MBD.
 

Falcon70

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GeoTerraTestudo said:
My understanding is that in MBD, whether the beak is overgrown or not, it tends to jut forward. These two guys have more or less vertical beaks, so although they are overgrown, I don't think they are indicative of MBD.

Ok, good to know! Do you have any suggestions on how to trim the beaks back down to a normal size?
 

GeoTerraTestudo

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Falcon70 said:
Ok, good to know! Do you have any suggestions on how to trim the beaks back down to a normal size?

I have only trimmed claws, not beaks. I know some keepers do it themselves, other choose to take their tortoise to the vet for a beak-trimming instead. I will let those with personal experience in this matter field your question.
 

Eweezyfosheezy

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You need to change your bedding inside. I would probably go with orchid bark in your case. If they are outside then dont worry about MBD. The yellow band is just growth.
 

Jacqui

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At this point, I think your best bet would be to take one of them to a Vet. Have the Vet show you how to Dremmel it down correctly. Then you could do the other one. Next would be to keep it from happening, start with a change in the diet to more fibrous and "tougher" weeds and plants. The romaine and green/red leaf lettuces are soft and watery and I bet with the kale you may not be feeding those hard stems, just the green leaves? Plus you rip and cut up their food right? The frozen veggies I bet are thawed frozen ones? That makes them soft (plus I would rather suggest not to feed much of those if any) Give the tortoises instead a nice chunk of raw carrot once or twice a month. You still may have to grind the beaks down again, but if you do all the preventative things, you should be okay. :cool:
 

Falcon70

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Eweezyfosheezy said:
You need to change your bedding inside. I would probably go with orchid bark in your case. If they are outside then dont worry about MBD. The yellow band is just growth.

Would orchid bark just be at the pet store, or will a place like home depot have a suitable version of it for a cheaper price.

Jacqui said:
At this point, I think your best bet would be to take one of them to a Vet. Have the Vet show you how to Dremmel it down correctly. Then you could do the other one. Next would be to keep it from happening, start with a change in the diet to more fibrous and "tougher" weeds and plants. The romaine and green/red leaf lettuces are soft and watery and I bet with the kale you may not be feeding those hard stems, just the green leaves? Plus you rip and cut up their food right? The frozen veggies I bet are thawed frozen ones? That makes them soft (plus I would rather suggest not to feed much of those if any) Give the tortoises instead a nice chunk of raw carrot once or twice a month. You still may have to grind the beaks down again, but if you do all the preventative things, you should be okay. :cool:

Thank you for the info! I will look around for a local vet. Usually when I feed them a type of lettuce or kale I take the hole head and rip the leaves in two or three and then give it to them. The veggies are the frozen ones, but they only get them once or twice every two weeks.

Carrots sound like a great idea and I will keep the cuttle bone I have in each enclosure and hope they take a liking to them. I'll also start using more weeds in their regular diet:)
 

Eweezyfosheezy

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I would call some local pet stores around you to see if they have it. My home depot or lowes doesnt have it but I know some other peoples local home depots do.
 

CLMoss

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I grow orchids and buy my "fir bark" at www.waldor.com. I believe the price is $15 per 1 cubic foot. Also, they have different grades of bark. The fir bark has alway been beautiful and clean. But note with any orchid bark you have to soak it in order for it to retain mosture.
 

Falcon70

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CLMoss said:
I grow orchids and buy my "fir bark" at www.waldor.com. I believe the price is $15 per 1 cubic foot. Also, they have different grades of bark. The fir bark has alway been beautiful and clean. But note with any orchid bark you have to soak it in order for it to retain mosture.

Website looks great and the bark is relatively cheap. Would the fine grade make the best substrate?
 

CLMoss

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Falcon, I am not sure what grade you would use for the tortoise. I use this bark for my orchids. Another member would need to give you this information. But what I can tell you is that using it for orchids really puts this bark thru the test of being fine quality, because it take a long time for it to break down. Waldor is located in NJ, so give them a call when you find out the grade that you need and ask them about the price for shipping. This bark will last for a long time, so it very well may be worth the price. I have been growing orchids for 17-18 year or so, and this is the best that I have come across. Some of my orchids need to be re-potted every six months, because they sit in water, so I need good quality. Good luck!
 

CLMoss

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Also, you can check out "orchid mall," to view other vendors in the usa that sell bark (orchid supplies). You may have a vendor in your area.
 

Falcon70

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CLMoss said:
Also, you can check out "orchid mall," to view other vendors in the usa that sell bark (orchid supplies). You may have a vendor in your area.

Thanks again, at the pet stores the better substrates are always in tiny bags and very expensive, but these vendors give a much better deal.

By the way, I scheduled a vet appointment; beak trimming is $25 each if tortoise is sociable, but if sedation is needed (assuming extra), a physical exam is needed ($54). I'm hoping both my little guys are in a friendly mood that day:D
 

CLMoss

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I am glad that I was able to help you out. I didn't know that this was a problem, or that the substrate was expensive. My hatchlings are still too young for bark, so I still use paper towels.

Good luck with your tortoises!

Also, when you get the bark let me know. I may be able to help you handle the bark so that it retains moisture and help you remove any dust if some settles on the bottom of the box before you use it for your tortoises.
 

Falcon70

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I guess what I am saying is that compared to the size to price ratio, it is priced high. I can buy a huge bag of aspen for 15 that lasts me a long time versus a bag of Cyprus mulch (or other pet store substrates) about 1/2-1/3 the size for the same price. Anyways, it doesn't matter haha, now I know that there are other places to look for substrate:)

Orchid bark will help me keep my enclosures a little more humid
 

CLMoss

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I understand. Orchid growers use this stuff like mad and they are really fussy about the quality and the price. It is all about bulk. I know that you will be happy when you receive it. But call first about the price for shipping. Although it is an investment (even if the shipping is high) and the bark should last you for a long time. We are really hard on this bark and it really does the job.
 
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