Bells hingeback "rescue" photos - your thoughts?

[BeevMom]

Hi all!

I posted recently (bells hingeback/helicopter mom post) about the bells I took in from a family member who had him roaming the house with no light, soaks, calcium, etc. I have his enclosure mostly set up and thought I'd post photos of him and the enclosure he'll be in until this summer. He ate his first few live worms and some turkey baby food this morning, but just a few bites. He was eating Iike a horse when I first got him, but now it's just a few bites here and there every couple of days. He accepted a soak for the first time today, too. I put some pedialyte in his soaking water to replenish whatever he might be lacking. I've started a routine in which I switch his lamp from the infrared to the UVB, put him in his soaking water, change his enclosure water, put food in there, then put him back when he looks like he wants out.

So far he enjoys mushrooms, tomatoes, and strawberries. He used to chow down on spring mix but doesn't seem to be interested lately. I never see him drink water and am somewhat concerned about dehydration. Can you guys check him out and his habitat and let me know if he looks ok? I took him to the vet a month ago and his blood tests were a little off, so I have to take him back at the end of this month. I think he's gained some weight, but I know it's going to be a long time before he's as healthy as the torts I'm seeing on here!

Thanks for the input.
Diana





Sphagnum moss hanging from the top





I plan to build an enclosure at some point. I like the two level design




He's been sitting in the same spot for the past 8 hrs - normal?





Water in hide area





Humidity goes between 30-55%





Substrate is sand + coconut fiber with a 2 in layer of cypress mulch on top





Lots of personality!





His underside was very very badly burned from a hot rock in 2001. The vet I just took him to said his scales may come off because he's not getting adequate care and will go through a growth spurt.





His eyes appear sunken in compared to other bells I've seen - does he look ok?





Beevis!

 

[Jacqui]

The eyes from what I can see in the 7th (I think) picture, look fine and normal to me. I would sink his water bowl into the substrate so it is level, if it were me.

So happy to hear that he did eat the bugs today! Have you gotten to try the muskmelon, cooked sweet tater, or papaya yet? Basically any really ripe fruit they like, with of course the reds, oranges and yellows top on the list.

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Don't be worried about not seeing him drinking, that is very normal.

 

[ascott]

AWESOME save I love when a real rescue occurs....love it.

So, while I do not keep this species, I will give share a little of what I observe in the pics

First of all, that is a beautiful tortoise....also taking into account the conditions you described, absolutely a gorgeous tortoise.

I am not sure of what size your tortoise and enclosure is, however, it appears to be a great looking enclosure, I would say that if you can cover at least half of the top with like a piece of plexiglass or something that will retain the heat and moisture that will do just that Also, they are known to really like a well planted environment...so maybe a few hiding plant areas so that they can get the warmth but can also do it in the shady environment of the plant canopy

Here is a site that has some useful information, again it is a tool only and as with any other advice---take all in and work to your particular tortoise needs and likes along with yours

http://premiumtortoises.com/hingeback.aspx

There are lots of other folks here that have first hand success with this species, so wait round abit for their input

 

[Jacqui]

I am not sure of what size your tortoise and enclosure is, however, it appears to be a great looking enclosure, I would say that if you can cover at least half of the top with like a piece of plexiglass or something that will retain the heat and moisture that will do just that Also, they are known to really like a well planted environment...so maybe a few hiding plant areas so that they can get the warmth but can also do it in the shady environment of the plant canopy

I am going to caution against closing off the top of the enclosure. This is a Bells hingeback, they live more out in the open and are not needing as high of a humidity level, as for instance the Homes Hingeback. Also take caution on the heat level. Get him too hot and he will slowed down even more. One of the great things about Hingebacks, is they normally will do well at the temps we keep our own homes.

The Bells tends to do better in an open environment compared once more to the Erosa and Homes Hingebacks. They also tend to enjoy the basking lights and overall brighter lights more then the other two before named varieties.

 

[ascott]

I am going to caution against closing off the top of the enclosure. This is a Bells hingeback, they live more out in the open and are not needing as high of a humidity level, as for instance the Homes Hingeback. Also take caution on the heat level. Get him too hot and he will slowed down even more. One of the great things about Hingebacks, is they normally will do well at the temps we keep our own homes.

The Bells tends to do better in an open environment compared once more to the Erosa and Homes Hingebacks. They also tend to enjoy the basking lights and overall brighter lights more then the other two before named varieties.

Thanks for offering this information Jacqui, I too love to learn as many details as can be offered.....

 

[Jacqui]

Thanks for offering this information Jacqui, I too love to learn as many details as can be offered.....

The most basic advise I can offer anybody on hingebacks is, you first need to know the type your dealing with. We assume, because they are hingebacks, they should all be cared for alike. This mistaken belief, has caused harm to so many hingebacks in the past. The major thing being in the past, since we tended to know the "drier" ones (the Bells and Spekii first), when we got large numbers of Homes and Erosa, we kept them too dry, too bright of lights, ect.., The Homes and Erosa are totally different creatures from the Bells and Spekii.

So a general thought would be... big buggy doe eyes are on the Homes and Erosa. That should show us they prefer less lighting and more humidity. Does that kinda make sense? These two are also called the Forest Hingebacks for that reason we need to think more shy and more hidden... thus more the need for plants and stuff.

 

[ascott]

big buggy doe eyes are on the Homes and Erosa. That should show us they prefer less lighting and more humidity.

Perfect example for quick reference and one that I can totally recall, thanks again...

 

[herpgirl24]

Definitely try sweet potato! I have had my homes for a few months now and all I ever see are a few nibbles off the food dish. Once I started feeding sweet potatoes, he is more interested. Today I walked by the tank and he was completely out of his shell and munching on some cantaloupe! I nearly fell over, its the first time I saw his entire head, lol

SO happy this tort found you and will be much happier now

 

[BeevMom]

Hi everyone! Thanks so much for your encouragement and advice! For some reason I didn't click on "get email notices" so I didn't get any, and I figured nobody had responded to my post yet - silly me!

Thanks for saying he's a good lookin guy I love him to death and hope he makes a full recovery so he can stick with me for another 70 or so years!

Jacqui - I did try some cooked sweet potato with a little bite of cooked fish. He looked at them for 2 hrs and then walked on the dish, and then he pooped. So I'm guessing he wasn't a fan :-/. It could also be something wrong with him - I'm taking him back to the vet for his follow up blood work on Monday and to check for infection. He's started clicking when he breathes, but only when he soaks. He's gotten lethargic and pretty much stays wherever I put him. At first I was ecstatic that he was finally accepting the soaks, but now I wonder if he just doesn't care where I put him. His eating has gone way down over the past week. He started "molting" or something a few months ago (he had started before I got him, so I'm not sure if that's really what it is) and the part on the side where there are no scutes is almost a bit soft. I'll get all this checked out on Monday.

The vet went over his previous blood test results - his red blood count was low, his calcium levels were too high, and he had a liver enzyme that was beyond the normal range, suggesting liver disease (however, they don't have exact ranges for bells, so it could be not that bad.) they are going to give him more fluids and show me how to do it so I can give him some in one week. Meanwhile, I'm just offering him stuff he used to chow down on to help him eat, but he's not even going for his favs. Yesterday he let two mealworms wriggle right in front of him and crawl off the dish.

I will post an update when I find about his condition on Monday. Wish us luck! Thanks all!

 

[Jacqui]

So some not so great news. Interesting test results for sure. Did they give you numbers like something was a 3.7 and they thought it should only be a 2.5? Wondering how far off they really were from where they think they should be.

 

[BeevMom]

So some not so great news. Interesting test results for sure. Did they give you numbers like something was a 3.7 and they thought it should only be a 2.5? Wondering how far off they really were from where they think they should be.

They didn't give me any specifics and were hesitent to because they don't have guidance for bell's hingeback (as far as what the acceptable ranges are.) The calcium level was "elevated but not alarming." The dr. said the AST liver enzyme was elevated, but the range was "pretty big," according to him. I think I'll get a much better picture of what's ok and not ok on Monday. If I'm able to get him really healthy and as "normal" as possible for a Bell's, I'll probably take him back (probably a year from now) to get the same tests done to get a healthy baseline. I had no idea these guys were so rare in the States!

 

[Kristina]

He started "molting" or something a few months ago (he had started before I got him, so I'm not sure if that's really what it is) and the part on the side where there are no scutes is almost a bit soft. I'll get all this checked out on Monday.

This sounds bad. Really bad. Tortoises do not "molt." They don't shed like a snake or lizard would. The scutes are SUPPOSED to be permanent. If they are coming off and there is a "squishy" area, that sounds to me like a SERIOUS problem.

Can you please take clear, as close as you can photos of this area and post them?

 

[BeevMom]

He started "molting" or something a few months ago (he had started before I got him, so I'm not sure if that's really what it is) and the part on the side where there are no scutes is almost a bit soft. I'll get all this checked out on Monday.

This sounds bad. Really bad. Tortoises do not "molt." They don't shed like a snake or lizard would. The scutes are SUPPOSED to be permanent. If they are coming off and there is a "squishy" area, that sounds to me like a SERIOUS problem.

Can you please take clear, as close as you can photos of this area and post them?

Hi Kristina,

I will take some better ones when I get home today. Part of his scute problem came from a VERY severe burn he had on his underside (plastron, is it?) about 10 years ago. I was living with his owner at the time and he was in a glass tank with a hot rock. It was so bad that his underside was cracked and squishy, and you could push it in (nobody did, but it was possible.) I took him to the same vet I'm taking him to now (University of Georgia Small Animal Teaching Hospital) and they treated him, but his plastron never fully recovered. It is solid, but as you can see in the photo, very badly damaged. I am not sure if the scutes that came off on the side were related to the fact that there aren't any on the bottom, but the vet did not seem very concerned. However, with it feeling "softer" than usual, I will definitely address it on Monday.

The dr. did say that his shell is developing "oddly" because he went from no husbandry whatsoever to more "ideal" conditions, so it's almost like his body is coming out of a 15-year "hibernation." (I know bell's don't hibernate, hence the quotes.) His shell is growing very quickly compared to before, so there are weird "areas" in between the scutes. This may have nothing whatsoever to do with the soft, non-scutey area on the side.

I'll get my digital camera out and take some really good photos today. I look forward to feedback! Thanks!

 

[BeevMom]

Hi All,

I took some better pictures of him with my digital camera. I appreciate your input!

Many thanks,
Diana

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Ok, so most of those pictures are blurry, too. *sigh* The one that really shows everything is the 3rd from the right.

 

[Kristina]

The spot doesn't look too awful bad. I am concerned at it being softer than normal, because even though the scutes were damaged, the bone underneath should have remained relatively intact.

Is there any odor? Any sort of chalky residue, or a pinkish tinge?

 

[Jacqui]

Is it Monday yet? I hate waiting to find out what the Vet will say days from now.... Have you noticed, the virtue of patience has not yet rubbed off on me from the tortoises...

 

[BeevMom]

The spot doesn't look too awful bad. I am concerned at it being softer than normal, because even though the scutes were damaged, the bone underneath should have remained relatively intact.

Is there any odor? Any sort of chalky residue, or a pinkish tinge?

Hi there, no there isn't any odor or residue. I didn't really notice the softness until a few days ago, when I picked him up out of his soaking tub. It's not really noticeable until you compare it with the hardness of the shell. I will get some answers on Monday, I hope!

 

[BeevMom]

Hi Everyone!

Sorry for the delay in posting his results. I didn't get the phone call from the vet until Friday. He said that everything looked pretty good - no parasites, no alarming abnormalities, etc. So, he's good to go for another year!

Here is what I received in his printout:

"Beavis has a normal heart and rhythm. Some intermittent respiratory sounds were heard twice while he was here in the hospital after handling, but not consistent. He weight 798 grams today. Beavis is missing all of the scutes over his plastron and over the mid to ventral right side of his carapace" (**Note: the vet said that these would NOT be coming back

"Overall, his shell feels firm. Beavis appears to be SLIGHTLY (emphasis theirs) clinically dehydrated today (sunken eyes) and has a body condition of 2.5 out of 5 (near ideal.)

"Today we performed several diagnostics that will give us a baseline for Beavis. On physical examination, Beavis seems slightly dehydrated, but all other parameters were within normal limits. He has lost 10g of body weight, but this is not overly concerning. At this time we don't believe that Beavis needs any medications.

"We recommend that you continue with your husbandry as described, including multiple soaks daily to ensure adequate hydration. At this time, we did not find any obvious clinical signs of respiratory disease, but we recommend continued monitoring for any change. If Beavis continues to do well at home and maintains a normal appetite with normal urination and defecation, we would like to see him again in 1 year for his annual physical exam."


So, it turned out to be pretty good news! I was surprised about the 10g weight loss - to me, he feels much more "solid" than when I got him, he was less dehydrated this time than at his first appointment, and he eats much more than he used to. I've heard there is some formula to determining how much he should weigh - if anyone can share that with me, I'd appreaciate it!

Thanks

Diana