Bioactive water environment

[gingamann]

Long time lurker first time poster. I have created a very large palladium for my 2 tortoise hatchlings. I've had them for just over a year. 1 is a leopard tortoise and the other is a hermanns tortoise. They have lived together in a rather large environment sharing a food bowl and water bowl for the last year. They get along well.

I have recently expanded their environment and created a larger (more surface area) water section that is filtered and has a few guppies to help with the clean up.

I would like to introduce tubifex worms into the aquarium portion of the environment. Since the tortoises mainly just poop in there and the water portion is limited to maybe 2 gallons, I think they will do a good job of keeping the ammonia levels down. Between filter cleanings.

Does anyone here have any experience introducing things like brine shrimp or tubifex worms into a live environment in order to maintain a somewhat self sustaining healthy water environment. And most importantly will they have an adverse effect on the tortoises when they go into it?

To be clear, the bottom of the water portion has large rocks on the bottom, a mix of lava rock and generic rocks covering the entirety of it so they can easily walk in and out of it & also to allow for better water flow to and from the filter. The worms would more or less be in the very bottom under the rocks.

Thank you for reading thru this .

Tldr: I would like to introduce something that actively eats that poop outside of the regular filter cleaning and water changes.
Any direction specifically with tubifex worms, brine shrimp and organisms like these that would help break down the poop but not pose a health risk to the tortoises.

 

[wellington]

If you have lurked for years then you should know you are doing to very big wrongs! Housing in pairs is bad and mixing species is bad.
They do not get along, you are just missing the signs of bullying. They also require different care.
Please do the right thing by them and get them separated ASAP!

 

[gingamann]

If you have lurked for years then you should know you are doing to very big wrongs! Housing in pairs is bad and mixing species is bad.
They do not get along, you are just missing the signs of bullying. They also require different care.
Please do the right thing by them and get them separated ASAP!

I do very much appreciate your response. But please, I am asking about something very specific.

 

[wellington]

I do very much appreciate your response. But please, I am asking about something very specific.

I understand that. But do you understand the danger you are making them live in? You don't change things, one or both will not be healthy or alive for it to matter what you do with the water source/pond.

 

[gingamann]

I understand that. But do you understand the danger you are making them live in? You don't change things, one or both will not be healthy or alive for it to matter what you do with the water source/pond.

Yes, which is why since they have been hatchlings they have been housed in a very large environment practically separated.

I am preparing to duplicate the current environment. And am currently setting up the water portion.

Please, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of commonalities you can easily find on the open web. I've raised turtles my entire life, I have a 42 year old turtle. And have extensive experience maintaining aquariums.

I am asking about something specific. I see you are a well known member of this community and I would rather not let this thread get filled with unrelated topics than what the post is actually about. Do you have any working knowledge of my question?

 

[Tom]

Yes, which is why since they have been hatchlings they have been housed in a very large environment practically separated.

I am preparing to duplicate the current environment. And am currently setting up the water portion.

Please, I don't want to go down a rabbit hole of commonalities you can easily find on the open web. I've raised turtles my entire life, I have a 42 year old turtle. And have extensive experience maintaining aquariums.

I am asking about something specific. I see you are a well known member of this community and I would rather not let this thread get filled with unrelated topics than what the post is actually about. Do you have any working knowledge of my question?

No one here is doing what you are proposing, so no one is going to have any experience based advice for you. We don't do it that way because tortoises foul their water sources too much and too quickly. The only practical way to keep it clean is to dump out the dirty water, clean the bowl, and refill it. In a large elaborate outdoor pond set up, you might have enough biological filtration to clean up after a small tortoise, but that is just not how the vast majority do it.

Tubifex worms and any other worm are not going to reduce the ammonia level. Quite the opposite, they will increase it. Brine shrimp won't survive in fresh water for very long.

The only organisms that remove ammonia are nitrosonomas bacteria. They convert ammonia into nitrite, which is even more toxic. Then the nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrite into nitrate. Much less toxic, and serves as plant fertilizer. The nitrite cycle. If you are familiar with aquariums, you should know all about this. Adding any sort of animal life to the aquatic environment will increase the amount of ammonia that is generated. This is not like springtails and isopods in a terrestrial environment.

You can't expect to come on to a tortoise forum, tell us you are committing two of the most unholy sins of tortoise keeping, and expect us to not say something. That's like going on to a car forum and telling them you pour water down the oil filler tube, but you only want to talk about which tires are best. Those two tortoise species have different housing requirements as juveniles. One is a tropical species and one is a temperate species. So which one is in the wrong environment?

I don't know how long of a life you've lived, but ignoring the basics of proper tortoise care is not good. I've raised tortoises for almost 40 years and got my first turtle 45 years ago. I did a lot wrong, based on the usual bad advice of the day for the first two decades or so. Then I learned better, and you can too.

 

[gingamann]

No one here is doing what you are proposing, so no one is going to have any experience based advice for you. We don't do it that way because tortoises foul their water sources too much and too quickly. The only practical way to keep it clean is to dump out the dirty water, clean the bowl, and refill it. In a large elaborate outdoor pond set up, you might have enough biological filtration to clean up after a small tortoise, but that is just not how the vast majority do it.

Tubifex worms and any other worm are not going to reduce the ammonia level. Quite the opposite, they will increase it. Brine shrimp won't survive in fresh water for very long.

The only organisms that remove ammonia are nitrosonomas bacteria. They convert ammonia into nitrite, which is even more toxic. Then the nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrite into nitrate. Much less toxic, and serves as plant fertilizer. The nitrite cycle. If you are familiar with aquariums, you should know all about this. Adding any sort of animal life to the aquatic environment will increase the amount of ammonia that is generated. This is not like springtails and isopods in a terrestrial environment.

You can't expect to come on to a tortoise forum, tell us you are committing two of the most unholy sins of tortoise keeping, and expect us to not say something. That's like going on to a car forum and telling them you pour water down the oil filler tube, but you only want to talk about which tires are best. Those two tortoise species have different housing requirements as juveniles. One is a tropical species and one is a temperate species. So which one is in the wrong environment?

I don't know how long of a life you've lived, but ignoring the basics of proper tortoise care is not good. I've raised tortoises for almost 40 years and got my first turtle 45 years ago. I did a lot wrong, based on the usual bad advice of the day for the first two decades or so. Then I learned better, and you can too.

No one here is doing what you are proposing, so no one is going to have any experience based advice for you. We don't do it that way because tortoises foul their water sources too much and too quickly. The only practical way to keep it clean is to dump out the dirty water, clean the bowl, and refill it. In a large elaborate outdoor pond set up, you might have enough biological filtration to clean up after a small tortoise, but that is just not how the vast majority do it.

Tubifex worms and any other worm are not going to reduce the ammonia level. Quite the opposite, they will increase it. Brine shrimp won't survive in fresh water for very long.

The only organisms that remove ammonia are nitrosonomas bacteria. They convert ammonia into nitrite, which is even more toxic. Then the nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrite into nitrate. Much less toxic, and serves as plant fertilizer. The nitrite cycle. If you are familiar with aquariums, you should know all about this. Adding any sort of animal life to the aquatic environment will increase the amount of ammonia that is generated. This is not like springtails and isopods in a terrestrial environment.

You can't expect to come on to a tortoise forum, tell us you are committing two of the most unholy sins of tortoise keeping, and expect us to not say something. That's like going on to a car forum and telling them you pour water down the oil filler tube, but you only want to talk about which tires are best. Those two tortoise species have different housing requirements as juveniles. One is a tropical species and one is a temperate species. So which one is in the wrong environment?

I don't know how long of a life you've lived, but ignoring the basics of proper tortoise care is not good. I've raised tortoises for almost 40 years and got my first turtle 45 years ago. I did a lot wrong, based on the usual bad advice of the day for the first two decades or so. Then I learned better, and you can too.

I am not planning on keeping them in the same environment. As I noted before I got them as hatchlings and they have been in a large environment for about a year. I was not and am not intending them to stay in the same environment. They get along well, as in they don't really interact with each other. They don't really need to and they eat from either side of the food bowl. I recently expanded their environment as they have grown a little and i don't want them to not have the same autonomy while I work on duplicating the current environment so I can separate them. Before I invest in a whole new environment I am working on the water portion of it.

The basking area center is about 97 degrees and the cool area is about 75. the over all ambient / air temperature in the tank at night doesn't drop below 72 generally it is at 75 at night. There is a thermostat controlled heating pad under the enclosure closer to the basking area but not directly under it. There is about 4 inches deep of substrate, a mix of coco fiber and terrarium soil for the hermanns to borrow around in freely through the enclosure with a topping of cypress chips on top. The humidity floats between 40 to 60 percent throughout the day and night. There are multiple hides for both in the basking area and in the cool area. The substrate is regularly hosed down to maintain the humidity and there is a colony springtails, isopods and potato bugs to help keep substrate under control. It gets spot cleaned daily and it gets fully cleaned out every 2-3 months or so and start new with cultures from the old.

The get fed a mix of rainbow chard, dandelion red and green, Romain, sassafras, clover and alfalfa. They plow thru it 2 times a day. They get bathed every 2 to 3 days for about 30 minutes.

From all the research that I've done the above seems about right for both of them. I am always looking to learn more.

As I've stated before. I am planning on duplicating the current environments. Currently I am working on a bioactive water area.

I have a filtration system. A setup including a canister and as well an in water power head with the proper media to balance ammonia levels. I said before specifically I am looking for things that like to eat poop to introduce to it. I am not finding a direct answer regarding the worms like tubifex or black or things like or daphnia with regards to tortoises and potential health risks.

I am 44 years old. I didn't know that this was a requirement for help. My dad got me a turtle when I was 2. I have been raising that turtle my whole life. Her name is Vincent. And is very happy in a 350 gallon tank.

I am coming to a tortoise forum with a very specific question of what type of aquatic worms are safe around tortoises.

So I guess, I'm not going to get a direct answer about if tubifex worms or daphnia or black worms pose a health risk to tortoises? It just seems like, "hey lemme tell you all the things you are doing wrong without much more context than a general overview of what's going on" rather than help with the very specific question that I asked multiple times at this point. Yes, your analogy of a mechanic is quite accurate.

Thank you.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Ignoring the other topics. I'll try to help you in your initial question...
No. I've tried several times to incorporate a water feature that is semi permanent and filtered both with a bog filter. Biologically filtered by plants and with a mechanical filter with removable substrate and all I've ever gotten was a big cesspool of bacteria.
It's been very discouraging.
I am currently attempting this on a larger scale. With a total of about 150 to 250 gallons of water through a pebble and plant bog stream fed from underground pipes from a bio filter and a 500 gph pump and a shallow pool for a single Redfoot.
I think (THINK) that the key is volume. Lots of water. Lots of filtration and less poop per the gallon. Plants and a filter media that can trap solids will help tremendously.
I've never found an aquatic "scavenger"that removed poop that didn't then wreak havoc with its own poop.
Be prepared to just sweep out the pool and refill it with fresh water.
And if you find something that works, please share it. Because I'm just about beat at this point. I'm attempting this for the last time.
(Maybe. Probably)

 

[gingamann]

No one here is doing what you are proposing, so no one is going to have any experience based advice for you. We don't do it that way because tortoises foul their water sources too much and too quickly. The only practical way to keep it clean is to dump out the dirty water, clean the bowl, and refill it. In a large elaborate outdoor pond set up, you might have enough biological filtration to clean up after a small tortoise, but that is just not how the vast majority do it.

Tubifex worms and any other worm are not going to reduce the ammonia level. Quite the opposite, they will increase it. Brine shrimp won't survive in fresh water for very long.

The only organisms that remove ammonia are nitrosonomas bacteria. They convert ammonia into nitrite, which is even more toxic. Then the nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrite into nitrate. Much less toxic, and serves as plant fertilizer. The nitrite cycle. If you are familiar with aquariums, you should know all about this. Adding any sort of animal life to the aquatic environment will increase the amount of ammonia that is generated. This is not like springtails and isopods in a terrestrial environment.

You can't expect to come on to a tortoise forum, tell us you are committing two of the most unholy sins of tortoise keeping, and expect us to not say something. That's like going on to a car forum and telling them you pour water down the oil filler tube, but you only want to talk about which tires are best. Those two tortoise species have different housing requirements as juveniles. One is a tropical species and one is a temperate species. So which one is in the wrong environment?

I don't know how long of a life you've lived, but ignoring the basics of proper tortoise care is not good. I've raised tortoises for almost 40 years and got my first turtle 45 years ago. I did a lot wrong, based on the usual bad advice of the day for the first two decades or so. Then I learned better, and you can too.

No one here is doing what you are proposing, so no one is going to have any experience based advice for you. We don't do it that way because tortoises foul their water sources too much and too quickly. The only practical way to keep it clean is to dump out the dirty water, clean the bowl, and refill it. In a large elaborate outdoor pond set up, you might have enough biological filtration to clean up after a small tortoise, but that is just not how the vast majority do it.

Tubifex worms and any other worm are not going to reduce the ammonia level. Quite the opposite, they will increase it. Brine shrimp won't survive in fresh water for very long.

The only organisms that remove ammonia are nitrosonomas bacteria. They convert ammonia into nitrite, which is even more toxic. Then the nitrobacter bacteria convert nitrite into nitrate. Much less toxic, and serves as plant fertilizer. The nitrite cycle. If you are familiar with aquariums, you should know all about this. Adding any sort of animal life to the aquatic environment will increase the amount of ammonia that is generated. This is not like springtails and isopods in a terrestrial environment.

You can't expect to come on to a tortoise forum, tell us you are committing two of the most unholy sins of tortoise keeping, and expect us to not say something. That's like going on to a car forum and telling them you pour water down the oil filler tube, but you only want to talk about which tires are best. Those two tortoise species have different housing requirements as juveniles. One is a tropical species and one is a temperate species. So which one is in the wrong environment?

I don't know how long of a life you've lived, but ignoring the basics of proper tortoise care is not good. I've raised tortoises for almost 40 years and got my first turtle 45 years ago. I did a lot wrong, based on the usual bad advice of the day for the first two decades or so. Then I learned better, and you can too.

I am not planning on keeping them in the same environment. As I noted before I got them as hatchlings and they have been in a large environment for about a year. I was not and am not intending them to stay in the same environment. They get along well, as in they don't really interact with each other. They don't really need to and they eat from either side of the food bowl. I recently expanded their environment as they have grown a little and i don't want them to not have the same autonomy while I work on duplicating the current environment so I can separate them. Before I invest in a whole new environment I am working on the water portion of it.

The basking area center is about 97 degrees and the cool area is about 75. the over all ambient / air temperature in the tank at night doesn't drop below 72 generally it is at 75 at night. There is a thermostat controlled heating pad under the enclosure closer to the basking area but not directly under it. There is about 4 inches deep of substrate, a mix of coco fiber and terrarium soil for the hermanns to borrow around in freely through the enclosure with a topping of cypress chips on top. The humidity floats between 40 to 60 percent throughout the day and night. There are multiple hides for both in the basking area and in the cool area. The substrate is regularly hosed down to maintain the humidity and there is a colony springtails, isopods and potato bugs to help keep substrate under control. It gets spot cleaned daily and it gets fully cleaned out every 2-3 months or so and start new with cultures from the old.

The get fed a mix of rainbow chard, dandelion red and green, Romain, sassafras, clover and alfalfa. They plow thru it 2 times a day. They get bathed every 2 to 3 days for about 30 minutes.

From all the research that I've done the above seems about right for both of them. I am always looking to learn more.

As I've stated before. I am planning on duplicating the current environments. Currently I am working on a bioactive water area.

I have a filtration system. A setup including a canister and as well an in water power head with the proper media to balance ammonia levels. I said before specifically I am looking for things that like to eat poop to introduce to it. I am not finding a direct answer regarding the worms like tubifex or black or things like or daphnia with regards to tortoises and potential health risks.

I am 44 years old. I didn't know that this was a requirement for help. My dad got me a turtle when I was 2. I have been raising that turtle my whole life. Her name is Vincent. And is very happy in a 350 gallon tank.

I am coming to a tortoise forum with a very specific question of what type of aquatic worms are safe around tortoises.

So I guess, I'm not going to get a direct answer about if tubifex worms or daphnia or black worms pose a health risk to tortoises? It just seems like, "hey lemme tell you all the things you are doing wrong without much more context than a general overview of what's going" rather than help with the very specific question that I asked multiple times at this point. Yes, your analogy of a mechanic is quite accurate

Thank you.

Ignoring the other topics. I'll try to help you in your initial question...
No. I've tried several times to incorporate a water feature that is semi permanent and filtered both with a bog filter. Biologically filtered by plants and with a mechanical filter with removable substrate and all I've ever gotten was a big cesspool of bacteria.
It's been very discouraging.
I am currently attempting this on a larger scale. With a total of about 150 to 250 gallons of water through a pebble and plant bog stream fed from underground pipes from a bio filter and a 500 gph pump and a shallow pool for a single Redfoot.
I think (THINK) that the key is volume. Lots of water. Lots of filtration and less poop per the gallon. Plants and a filter media that can trap solids will help tremendously.
I've never found an aquatic "scavenger"that removed poop that didn't then wreak havoc with its own poop.
Be prepared to just sweep out the pool and refill it with fresh water.
And if you find something that works, please share it. Because I'm just about beat at this point. I'm attempting this for the last time.
(Maybe. Probably)

Gotcha, I've not had much luck with self sustaining ecospheres. As you put it, a cesspool of bacteria is inevitable. I think the answer lies in fungi that completes for the same resources. I just don't know enough about bacteria and fungi to go down that rabbit hole anytime soon.. ha. What is intriguing to me though is a water cycle that would be similar to the once a month or so that I go thru with my cooter.

Fully intending on cycling the whole thing out every so often.. I'm just looking to move that cycle to like a monthly one.

My fear is that if those types of worms could become parasitic to tortoises. I just don't know about it.

 

[wellington]

Your temps are wrong for a leopard, fine for a Hermanns. A leopard should not be in temps less then 80 day and night.
Babies also should not have a heat mat on the ground or under the tank. They bask from above. Babies will stay too long on a mat trying to warm their carapace and can stay too long on a mat doing this.
You only talk about separating them once you were called out. There will be no need in two seperate enclosures if you don't get them set up correctly now in their own enclosure, they, or likely the leopard won't make it long enough.
80% humidity is needed for about 3 years for growing smooth tortoises, this is maintained easily in a closed chamber.
Tom answered your original question and so did Zeropilot.
Your number one concern now should be to get them separated so they have the best chance of surviving instead of the worse chance!
If the enclosure is so big, then that should be easy to do.

 

[Tom]

I am not planning on keeping them in the same environment. As I noted before I got them as hatchlings and they have been in a large environment for about a year. I was not and am not intending them to stay in the same environment. They get along well, as in they don't really interact with each other. They don't really need to and they eat from either side of the food bowl. I recently expanded their environment as they have grown a little and i don't want them to not have the same autonomy while I work on duplicating the current environment so I can separate them. Before I invest in a whole new environment I am working on the water portion of it.

The basking area center is about 97 degrees and the cool area is about 75. the over all ambient / air temperature in the tank at night doesn't drop below 72 generally it is at 75 at night. There is a thermostat controlled heating pad under the enclosure closer to the basking area but not directly under it. There is about 4 inches deep of substrate, a mix of coco fiber and terrarium soil for the hermanns to borrow around in freely through the enclosure with a topping of cypress chips on top. The humidity floats between 40 to 60 percent throughout the day and night. There are multiple hides for both in the basking area and in the cool area. The substrate is regularly hosed down to maintain the humidity and there is a colony springtails, isopods and potato bugs to help keep substrate under control. It gets spot cleaned daily and it gets fully cleaned out every 2-3 months or so and start new with cultures from the old.

The get fed a mix of rainbow chard, dandelion red and green, Romain, sassafras, clover and alfalfa. They plow thru it 2 times a day. They get bathed every 2 to 3 days for about 30 minutes.

From all the research that I've done the above seems about right for both of them. I am always looking to learn more.

As I've stated before. I am planning on duplicating the current environments. Currently I am working on a bioactive water area.

I have a filtration system. A setup including a canister and as well an in water power head with the proper media to balance ammonia levels. I said before specifically I am looking for things that like to eat poop to introduce to it. I am not finding a direct answer regarding the worms like tubifex or black or things like or daphnia with regards to tortoises and potential health risks.

I am 44 years old. I didn't know that this was a requirement for help. My dad got me a turtle when I was 2. I have been raising that turtle my whole life. Her name is Vincent. And is very happy in a 350 gallon tank.

I am coming to a tortoise forum with a very specific question of what type of aquatic worms are safe around tortoises.

So I guess, I'm not going to get a direct answer about if tubifex worms or daphnia or black worms pose a health risk to tortoises? It just seems like, "hey lemme tell you all the things you are doing wrong without much more context than a general overview of what's going on" rather than help with the very specific question that I asked multiple times at this point. Yes, your analogy of a mechanic is quite accurate.

Thank you.

It's good that you plan to separate them, but they should never have been together. Those temps are much too cool and the environment much too dry for a leopard.

You mentioned "your research". It appears that you are not yet aware, but almost all of the info out there in the world for tortoise care is wrong and it's been wrong for decades. Most of the tortoise keeping world still doesn't even realize this. I made this thread for people new to the forum, not necessarily new to tortoises. Give it a read through and see just how different your research is from the assertions made in the thread. Please feel free to ask questions, argue, and talk about these things. Our goal here is to help tortoises. The more you learn, the better off your tortoises will be. You are welcome here, but you can't expect us to ignore glaring errors that could harm your animals. We aren't trying to gang up and attack you. We are trying to help you and your tortoises.

Daphnia, and any type of feeder worms are not parasitic in any way to your animals, but they will also not help accomplish your goal of cleaner water either. Plants, mechanical filtration, and the correct balance of beneficial bacteria is the ONLY thing that is going to clean the water. All the things you asked about will add to the biological load, not remove any of it.

Here is that thread:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[EppsDynasty]

I would like to keep my horse and guinea pig together any advice? They both eat hay so hey it should be fine. Any suggestions?

 

[gingamann]

Your temps are wrong for a leopard, fine for a Hermanns. A leopard should not be in temps less then 80 day and night.
Babies also should not have a heat mat on the ground or under the tank. They bask from above. Babies will stay too long on a mat trying to warm their carapace and can stay too long on a mat doing this.
You only talk about separating them once you were called out. There will be no need in two seperate enclosures if you don't get them set up correctly now in their own enclosure, they, or likely the leopard won't make it long enough.
80% humidity is needed for about 3 years for growing smooth tortoises, this is maintained easily in a closed chamber.
Tom answered your original question and so did Zeropilot.
Your number one concern now should be to get them separated so they have the best chance of surviving instead of the worse chance!
If the enclosure is so big, then that should be easy to do.

No one has yet told me if they knew about if these worms are parasitic or generally harmful to tortoises.

Both you and Tom made a lot of assumptions of what you guys thought I was doing or aiming to do with nothing more than a little bit of an overview from me. You and Tom both sound very arrogant. It was only after I got somewhat attacked by you 2 that I provided a full on auto biography of sorts including my working plans for them in the hopes that someone (else, maybe) would address the question I had. But by all means make more assumptions. Sure, assume that any additional details from me from here in out is because you specifically are "calling me out" on something. Seriously, please, it is working out so well.

Yes, I am aware that tortoises like other turtle's bask from heat above them. Which is why there is a basking spot with an actual lamp. I overtly stated that the heating pad wasn't directly under the basking spot in the hopes that this little bit of detail would be enough to signal there was a distinction between the basking area and where the heat pad was as to not have to go down another rabbit hole of things other than what the ******* post is about. The under the environment heater is not for them to bask, it is to maintain a constant and over-night ambient air temperature from below. This way if either of them want it to be warmer at night or while in the cooler part of the tank they can easily just move to the warmer area in the 'warm' hides which is moreso in the low 80s at night. What is the deal with you two? It's like.. let me see what small detail is not explicitly stated in monologue form and then assume they are a retard and try to shame them.

Everything I'm doing for the tortoises is from best practices I've gotten from reading through this very forum. This is my first time asking a question. And feel like maybe I shouldn't have even bothered.

I appreciate zeropilot for discussing their aquatic experience with me. I think both them and Tom spoke more so to if they will help keep the water clean which is in part of what I'm trying to do but no, not the main reason. But my main concern is if there is a parasitic risk for them.

Anyone?

 

[gingamann]

It's good that you plan to separate them, but they should never have been together. Those temps are much too cool and the environment much too dry for a leopard.

You mentioned "your research". It appears that you are not yet aware, but almost all of the info out there in the world for tortoise care is wrong and it's been wrong for decades. Most of the tortoise keeping world still doesn't even realize this. I made this thread for people new to the forum, not necessarily new to tortoises. Give it a read through and see just how different your research is from the assertions made in the thread. Please feel free to ask questions, argue, and talk about these things. Our goal here is to help tortoises. The more you learn, the better off your tortoises will be. You are welcome here, but you can't expect us to ignore glaring errors that could harm your animals. We aren't trying to gang up and attack you. We are trying to help you and your tortoises.

Daphnia, and any type of feeder worms are not parasitic in any way to your animals, but they will also not help accomplish your goal of cleaner water either. Plants, mechanical filtration, and the correct balance of beneficial bacteria is the ONLY thing that is going to clean the water. All the things you asked about will add to the biological load, not remove any of it.

Here is that thread:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you for addressing my question Tom.

I have already responded to wellington in a more monologue form.

This has been my main resource for "research" on tortoises, I don't know why it is necessary to put that in quotes. Because I have found this community so very helpful from afar, I thought it would be a good place to ask a question. I'll rethink that again quite honestly if there is going to be gatekeeping like this.

 

[wellington]

No, we are not arrogant, we care about the life of your tortoises. Btw, all we have to go on is what you say. Now the temps are low 80's at night, very different than when you thought the low to mid 70's were fine.
You didn't get your info from this forum or it wouldn't be so wrong. You may have read the info on this forum and then you did what you wanted instead of what is right for the tortoises.
Some members will ignore the wrong and just hope you will eventually ask more significant questions. I'm not one of those and neither is Tom. When we see bad care, we address it at that time. Many tortoises are saved and given a proper life by not ignoring the facts in our faces.

 

[gingamann]

Yep.. the general ambient air temp at night in the enclosure is around 72-75.. is all I said.

Assumptions.. assumptions.. assumptions...

I have a few warm hides closer to the basking area with a heating pad under them... ....in the warm hides it is in the low 80s at night.

This is my point. All you are doing is looking for things to be like **** you you suck. Yes you are being arrogant.

This is a rabbit hole that has nothing to do about what question I am asking.

Are you done gatekeeping?

 

[wellington]

Yep.. the general ambient air temp at night in the enclosure is around 72-75.. is all I said.

Assumptions.. assumptions.. assumptions...

I have a few warm hides closer to the basking area with a heating pad under them... ....in the warm hides it is in the low 80s at night.

This is my point. All you are doing is looking for things to be like **** you you suck. Yes you are being arrogant.

This is a rabbit hole that has nothing to do about what question I am asking.

Are you done gatekeeping?

No, I'm taking what you are saying in your first couple posts as what you are really doing. If you have lurked on here as you say, you should have learned by now, we can only go by what is posted.
Seems to me you are fishing for an argument.
Well argue with yourself. Just remember, the tortoises well being is on you, it goes bad, it's your fault! You were warned and sadly your tortoises will pay

 

[gingamann]

No, I'm taking what you are saying in your first couple posts as what you are really doing. If you have lurked on here as you say, you should have learned by now, we can only go by what is posted.
Seems to me you are fishing for an argument.
Well argue with yourself. Just remember, the tortoises well being is on you, it goes bad, it's your fault! You were warned and sadly your tortoises will pay

Lol.. ok

 

[gingamann]

I would like to keep my horse and guinea pig together any advice? They both eat hay so hey it should be fine. Any suggestions?

Nice one !!