Can we talk a bit about guns?

[Yvonne G]

I'm 73 years old and my dog (doberman) is also old. She doesn't hear well and is almost blind. She is no protection because of her hearing.

So, I had the vet out this a.m. because of an injury on my horse, and I mentioned I'm looking for a doberman pup. He said, "get a gun."

He made some good points.

...I don't have to actually shoot it, just the sound of cocking, ratcheting? will deter
...I don't even have to aim a short barrel shot gun

I don't think I could actually shoot someone, I mean with a bullet, but I'm pretty sure I could shoot a shot gun aimed lower, like at their feet.

I'm torn, because I really enjoy my dog's company and I'm going to miss that when she dies. But with all the home invasion robberies I'm quite uneasy here by myself at night.

Can we talk about this so I can get some more insight as to whether I want a shot gun or a pup?

 

[StudentoftheReptile]

As far as home security goes, dogs can be tricked, distracted, bribed, poisoned, or shot themselves. I'm sure the personality, the genetics and the training of dog plays some role there, but I bet Tom could share better insight on that.

Guns don't have to be fed or watered everyday, or let out to go to the rest room. You can leave them in one spot, and that is where they will be when you need them. Obviously, a lot can be said for getting a gun that you're comfortable with, be familiar with it, and don't leave it anywhere irresponsible (i.e. places where little hands can find it!). But in general...while a large, upset dog is intimidating to an intruder, the sound of a firearm being cocked elicits a more visceral response: someone means business!

Although I'm only 30, I decided to get a gun for the same reasons. I hope I never have to use it, and chances are, I never will. But I take comfort in the fact that its an option. My dogs were great in letting me know when someone was around, but someone who is determined can find ways to deal with dogs.

And plus...I say, get a gun before they pass a law that says you can't! That's my $.02

 

[MarcaineArt]

Is having both not a possibility? While yes a gun is for the most part a one time expense and a dog requires feeding and vet care, a gun can't keep you company. Also an intruder may not hear the cocking of the gun but will hear the bark and growl of a dog. I am both a gun owner and a dog owner. Both have their places, their benefits, and their drawbacks. One of the main things that you said though is that you don't think you could shoot someone. If the intruder can get this impression as well from your behavior and body language the gun may not do you any good and could cause a problem if you are overpowered. I am 42 and, as I said have both guns and dogs. My dogs are not even very big but when anyone comes onto the property I know they are there and they know I am aware.

 

[Baoh]

I prefer both. Also, you should not draw a weapon you are unwilling to use. It is not for show. If you brandish it, it escalates the situation. If the flight part of the fight-or-flight reaction occurs for the intruder, you would be fine. If the fight part dominates, you have to be willing to protect your safety. Try out a number of guns at a range and see which feel comfortable in your hands (balance and so on). Then, after practice with your choices, make your selection. I would go with ones known for reliability. I prefer dogs for the warning signals they send when someone is around and you may not be aware of it. They tend to notice things before we do.

 

[Yvonne G]

That's the way I was thinking too, Baoh. I thought that the sound of a shot gun being cocked might be a deterrent. But the dog gives me company plus peace of mind because it hears what I don't.

 

[wellington]

I agree with all the above. If you are uncomfortable in getting a gun, you could take some lessons. I would do both. A dog for company and added first alert protection, the gun for the final answer, if you get what I mean. As far as shooting someone. Don't forget, it's you or them, make it them. Good luck in whatever you choose and hopefully you will never have to use either for protection.

 

[Zamric]

Guns -vs- Dogs....

Always a Debateable Subject!

#1] A Dog can be by your side 24/7. A Gun must be placed someplace accessable Like bed side table (but what to do if break-in happens when your NOT in the bedroom?)

#2] EVERYONE who owns a gun SHOULD go thru a "Gun Control Class"

#3] Unless you purchase a Trained Dog, a puppy will be useless for the 1st year or so.

 

[dmmj]

While I would say get both, getting a gun is a personal choice. I always stress though a gun is meant to kill, if you are unsure if whether or not you can shoot a person it might not be a good choice for you. Classes and training are essential.

Just give me a warning if you get one, in case I decide to sneak onto your property one night

 

[Zamric]

Just give me a warning if you get one, in case I decide to sneak onto your poroperty one night

Oh, you'll be safe enough.... after all theres a pretty good chance she'll miss you completely on the 1st couple of shots!

 

[Tom]

Hmm...

This a a personal choice that each person must make. "if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice...". Sorry, that's a lyric from a "Rush" song, but it seemed to fit well.

I truly think the best choice is both. They each have their good and bad points. Both things are simply parts of my general security strategy.

One thing I must point out is that when you see someone click the hammer back, or rack the shotgun slide in the movies, you are witnessing a HUGE tactical error. If you are confronting an intruder and feel the need to be armed while doing so, you should have already chambered a round, verified it with a press check, keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on a target, and disengage the safety, all BEFORE commencing any sort of search or confrontation. To walk around looking for a bad guy and then racking your slide or shotgun upon finding said criminal is foolish. If you were to be surprised by the person or an accomplice and did not have a round already chambered, it could be disastrous. Likewise, if there already was a round chambered, it would be foolish to eject a round and or be manipulating your weapon in the face of a potentially dangerous intruder.

Anyhow, the first course of action, in my opinion, is to go take a basic firearms class, with a qualified instructor. Some schools offer ladies classes that make some women feel more comfortable too. Once you have a class under your belt and learn about proper handling and safety, as well as all the laws for firearms ownership, use, and deadly force legalities, then you will be able to make a more informed decision.

Lastly, I have to agree with Barb here. If it comes down to you or them, please make it them. The world is much better with you in it.

 

[tortadise]

I always say to myself. "make sure you have a plan A and plan B". I have a wonderful dog but never know really how well he would react to an invasive situation. Lots of times dogs can be possessive dominant and protective over their master. But when left to hold down the fort can be lured into submission. So, I would say if your personally fine with handling a firearm and willing to ensure the safety courses (which I recommend) and a new pup. Always good to have plan A&B. I have lots of guns but never intend to use them unless at last measure have to. And I also think your right. I believe everybody knows what a 12 gauge being pumped means. "get the **** out of my house criminal"

 

[Jacob]

Having both might be great, but you have many tortoises to take care of and that you love.
A Gun isnt a bad idea tho, specially a shotgun classes would be very smart to take to just in case
and so you have proper handling etc.

 

[terryo]

Forget the puppy. Go to a shelter and get a large adult Doberman or German Shepard. My friend lives up state in a log cabin and her husband recently died and that's what she did. Her new, male Doberman is over 100 lbs, and has become very protective of her now. A dog is great company too. As for the gun, go for lessons, and find which one is right for you and get that too. If you have to shoot, aim a bit lower then the stomach. Just my 2 cents.

 

[TylerStewart]

I agree with most of the above, get both if possible. If you're going to shoot, shoot to kill. I think dogs are a great deterrent even if they're small because just the barking alerts people that something is going on. Our dogs wouldn't hurt a fly around the house and property, but if you peek over the back wall, they go crazy barking and growling and you'd be crazy to jump over. My wife went jogging early one morning last winter and came home with baggy clothes on and a beanie in the dark and just about got tackled because they didn't know who she was. They had her cornered and were ready to attack when I realized what was going on and broke it up. I've never seen them act like that. We never trained them to do really anything fancy, but they were real defensive when they thought it mattered, and I sleep better every night because of it! We have bullmastiffs. The gun is a good backup plan, but realistically without the dogs, you could make quite a bit of noise (and probably make it into my bedroom) before I would be awake, but they'd be watching and would wake me up pretty quick.

 

[ijmccollum]

I don't do guns...i might actually use it...i'm a pretty wicked woman with a base ball bat and hand to hand combat....and if i don't get you, the dog will.

 

[wellington]

I agree with most of the above, get both if possible. If you're going to shoot, shoot to kill. I think dogs are a great deterrent even if they're small because just the barking alerts people that something is going on. Our dogs wouldn't hurt a fly around the house and property, but if you peek over the back wall, they go crazy barking and growling and you'd be crazy to jump over. My wife went jogging early one morning last winter and came home with baggy clothes on and a beanie in the dark and just about got tackled because they didn't know who she was. They had her cornered and were ready to attack when I realized what was going on and broke it up. I've never seen them act like that. We never trained them to do really anything fancy, but they were real defensive when they thought it mattered, and I sleep better every night because of it! We have bullmastiffs. The gun is a good backup plan, but realistically without the dogs, you could make quite a bit of noise (and probably make it into my bedroom) before I would be awake, but they'd be watching and would wake me up pretty quick.

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[/quote]

Do mastiffs have a bad sense of smell. I have never been able to fool any of my dogs, Shar-Pei, Bull Terrier, even a little Pom and small mixed. Anyone they knew that I would use to try and see what would happen, they recognized right away by smell.

[hr]
Beautiful dogs, by the way:D

 

[Kerryann]

I have dogs and guns. I personally would not use my dogs for protection. I will be putting the dogs behind me, if I can and protecting myself with the gun. To be comfortable enough to handle a gun in a stressful situation you need to be practiced with the gun. We own several guns and I can shoot and load all of them. I want to get to the point where I can tear them all down or fix issues.
Someone else in the thread said that if you have the gun in hand and your finger on the trigger, you should be ready to shoot. The seconds you take fumbling to unlock the safety, rack the gun, or chamber your bullets can be your last seconds alive.
A shotgun is not the best home defense. I thought this too and my hard head had to go through some serious tactical training to learn why that is. I was once told that someone hearing shotgun rack is a deterrent also, and it made sense to me. It was hard to beat out of my head.
I would suggest you go to a gun range, take a safety course, and shoot some different guns until you feel comfortable with what you like. My husband likes a 1911 .45 but I prefer a glock 9mm. I actually prefer long guns to pistols. I would rather defend my home with one of the ARs as opposed to a pistol, but I am comfortable I can do it with any gun we own.
Also for additional security you could take a personal defense class like krav maga. I am getting ready to take a tactical krav maga class where I learn how to manage a fight and use a weapon if necessary.
Now.. if I could just teach the tortoises krav maga and they could be like extra little ninjas

 

[Madkins007]

A gaziliion years ago, as part of my training to work in a largish hardware store (back when employees actually KNEW stuff), we had a basic program in home security. I don't remember all of it, but based on that training, you may be thinking too narrowly.

1. Don't make your house a target. Do not show off wealth or possessions, never leave boxes for big screen TVs in the trash, etc. Also- never let mail, newspaper, etc. accumulate and keep the yard looking cared for.

2. Encourage them to move on. Exterior lighting, neighborhood watch signs, closed and locked doors- especially garages. Good locks and reinforced door plates, etc. really help as do automatic internal lights (look for those with random functions, and use them in places where the light can be seen from the street, but not the source of the light- bathrooms are especially good for this!. Adding radios and TVs thoughtfully helps as well.)

2a. Indications you have an alarm system are a mixed blessing. It often deters punks, but suggests to pros that there is something worth protecting, thus worth stealing. Warnings about guns are about the same- and a lot of crooks target homes with guns!

2b. Indications of a big, trained dog, however, are almost always a deterrent. 'Beware of dog sign' with a big dog pictured is a good start, but more subtle things like a dog bowl with a little food around it and a water dish topped off daily, a couple well-chewed toys (from friends upgrading theirs?), a chunk of visible doo, etc. can make a person casing the house move on.

3. Make it hard to get in. Good locks and reinforced jambs, locked windows, no hiding places, no easy access to upper areas, motion-sensing lights. The very best thing, however, are alert, interested, and friendly to you neighbors (an occasional banana bread buys a lot of security!)

4. Once in, make them want to leave quickly. Alarms and panic buttons are good, but not perfect. A dog barking recording on a motion sensor can help... but it is kind of an old trick now. Making valuables hard to find is usually a good plan- but a pro who has time on his side will just systematically search and destroy to find what they want.

5. Avoid confrontation. Statistically, it is safer to hide than to confront- unless you really mean it and have some confidence you can win. This is obviously a personal decision, but there is no shame in surviving to identify and prosecute the crook. If you DO go the gun route, do some research about what kind of weapon suits your needs best and get the right training and practice with it.

6. Maximize odds of recovery and prosecution. Marking and photo-documenting your stuff (good for insurance purposes, as well), etc.

A bit off topic, but maybe helpful.

 

[bigred]

My whole family is into guns and they have way to many. The State of Calif. didnt think it would be a good idea if I owned a gun so I dont have one. I think you should get both and the dog can alert you to noises outside. If someone comes it your house, shoot them. Doesnt have to be a big gun, it can be a smaller gun that a 73 year old can handle. Im moving in August to a duplex that is shared by my Mom. Im moving there so she wont be alone. She wouldnt move in with us so we are moving next door to her. She is 88 and we are moving to a smaller place with a way smaller tort yard

 

[Jacqui]

Is having both not a possibility? While yes a gun is for the most part a one time expense and a dog requires feeding and vet care, a gun can't keep you company. Also an intruder may not hear the cocking of the gun but will hear the bark and growl of a dog. I am both a gun owner and a dog owner. Both have their places, their benefits, and their drawbacks. One of the main things that you said though is that you don't think you could shoot someone. If the intruder can get this impression as well from your behavior and body language the gun may not do you any good and could cause a problem if you are overpowered. I am 42 and, as I said have both guns and dogs. My dogs are not even very big but when anyone comes onto the property I know they are there and they know I am aware.

I am not going to write a reply, because this one nicely says it all for me. I was always also a believer, if you have a gun in your hand, you had better be ready to use it or it could as stated increase the danger you could be in.