Coil bulb

[J REED]

Do you guys think the coil bulbs are bad sideways in these type fixtures?
Jeremy

 

[Yvonne G]

No. The problem with the CFL's is that an excess of harmful rays comes out the end of the bulb. So when they are pointed downward, the tortoise is bombarded with too much UV. So mounting the bulb sideways, like shown in the picture, whether the actual coiled bulb or the one shown in the picture eliminates the problem.

If anyone is interested in what we've talked about on this subject, go to the top of the page and enter "coiled bulbs" in the square (labelled "google custom search") to the left of the button marked "search tortoise forum"

 

[Tom]

Yes. Sometimes. No way to know which times until the eyes are already damaged. I recommend you don't use them.

 

[Baoh]

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

 

[J REED]

Re: RE: Coil bulb

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

I haven't.Im not sure why they keep producing if they are harmful. ..I thought putting them sideways like this was to combat the harm they were doing..

Jeremy

 

[mainey34]

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Thank you for the info. Im curious myself if anyone has used them..they are not cheap...

 

[Tom]

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Who said anything about UV? I don't know that UV is, or isn't the problem. I don't need a light meter to tell me that an animal under one of these bulbs is having eye issues.

The animal goes for years with no issues. The person adds a coil bulb and the animal under it develops eye issues. Remove the coil bulb and the animal heals up and goes back to normal. What do I need a $300 dollar UV light meter for?

I've seen the above scenario many times with several species, with bulbs mounted sideways or vertically.

Go ahead Baoh. Ask me for scientific proof that would take thousands of dollars and a lab with scientists to conduct it. Lets spend several hours debating why this is not practical, but nothing less will satisfy your superior intellect.

I don't have scientific proof. I don't care to spend my time searching for anecdotal evidence on the internet. I've seen it repeatedly with my own two eyes, and that is enough for me to recommend people not use them.

 

[Baoh]

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Who said anything about UV? I don't know that UV is, or isn't the problem. I don't need a light meter to tell me that an animal under one of these bulbs is having eye issues.

The animal goes for years with no issues. The person adds a coil bulb and the animal under it develops eye issues. Remove the coil bulb and the animal heals up and goes back to normal. What do I need a $300 dollar UV light meter for?

I've seen the above scenario many times with several species, with bulbs mounted sideways or vertically.

Go ahead Baoh. Ask me for scientific proof that would take thousands of dollars and a lab with scientists to conduct it. Lets spend several hours debating why this is not practical, but nothing less will satisfy your superior intellect.

I don't have scientific proof. I don't care to spend my time searching for anecdotal evidence on the internet. I've seen it repeatedly with my own two eyes, and that is enough for me to recommend people not use them.

I do not make up my mind on how things are before I gather evidence and I do not care that you do.

---

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Thank you for the info. Im curious myself if anyone has used them..they are not cheap...

I might see if I have one around in personal storage or if I can borrow one.

I think we have a couple different photometers at work and a proper light box I could test these in. I have to see if I want to spend the money on bulbs I have no use for, though. If I find a deal, I will simply to see what values I get instead of relying on anyone's make believe.

 

[mainey34]

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Who said anything about UV? I don't know that UV is, or isn't the problem. I don't need a light meter to tell me that an animal under one of these bulbs is having eye issues.

The animal goes for years with no issues. The person adds a coil bulb and the animal under it develops eye issues. Remove the coil bulb and the animal heals up and goes back to normal. What do I need a $300 dollar UV light meter for?

I've seen the above scenario many times with several species, with bulbs mounted sideways or vertically.

Go ahead Baoh. Ask me for scientific proof that would take thousands of dollars and a lab with scientists to conduct it. Lets spend several hours debating why this is not practical, but nothing less will satisfy your superior intellect.

I don't have scientific proof. I don't care to spend my time searching for anecdotal evidence on the internet. I've seen it repeatedly with my own two eyes, and that is enough for me to recommend people not use them.

I do not make up my mind on how things are before I gather evidence and I do not care that you do.

---

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Thank you for the info. Im curious myself if anyone has used them..they are not cheap...

I might see if I have one around in personal storage or if I can borrow one.

I think we have a couple different photometers at work and a proper light box I could test these in. I have to see if I want to spend the money on bulbs I have no use for, though. If I find a deal, I will simply to see what values I get instead of relying on anyone's make believe.

---

If it would be possible for you to do, i for one would like to know the outcome. Just because there is a specific light involved, there maybe other conditions or other factors that are left out. We cant always rely on the fact of guessing.

 

[Baoh]

It seems that I have everything I need except the bulbs. I will price them in the coming days and then decide based on what I find. Maybe I can give it a broader utility. Maybe.

 

[jaizei]

It seems that I have everything I need except the bulbs. I will price them in the coming days and then decide based on what I find. Maybe I can give it a broader utility. Maybe.

How deep are you wanting to get into this? Are you thinking about testing multiple bulbs or testing a bulb in different orientations?

 

[Yvonne G]

And don't forget that after all the brouhaha and the bulbs were supposedly "fixed," the old bulbs that originally caused the problems were never removed from the store shelves.

 

[Tom]

I do not make up my mind on how things are before I gather evidence...

I will simply to see what values I get instead of relying on anyone's make believe.

Nor do I. Personally witnessing the same thing multiple times IS evidence.

Looking directly at an animal with swollen and obviously irritated eyes is not make believe.

 

[Baoh]

It seems that I have everything I need except the bulbs. I will price them in the coming days and then decide based on what I find. Maybe I can give it a broader utility. Maybe.

How deep are you wanting to get into this? Are you thinking about testing multiple bulbs or testing a bulb in different orientations?

That is part of my consideration for how far I want to take the idea. Good enough would just have some replicates, orientation differences, and height differences. Publishable would have to have enough numbers to improve statistical power, brand differences, strength differences, and would also have to provide a time component in addition to the previously mentioned factors. Good enough will have a monetary cost. Publishable will have a monetary cost and a temporal cost. I will decide if I even feel like doing it after I have looked at my pricing options over the next few days.

---

I do not make up my mind on how things are before I gather evidence...

I will simply to see what values I get instead of relying on anyone's make believe.

Nor do I. Personally witnessing the same thing multiple times IS evidence.

Looking directly at an animal with swollen and obviously irritated eyes is not make believe.

Your beliefs are very important to me and I find all of the tales you tell to be beyond reproach.

 

[jaizei]

It seems that I have everything I need except the bulbs. I will price them in the coming days and then decide based on what I find. Maybe I can give it a broader utility. Maybe.

How deep are you wanting to get into this? Are you thinking about testing multiple bulbs or testing a bulb in different orientations?

That is part of my consideration for how far I want to take the idea. Good enough would just have some replicates, orientation differences, and height differences. Publishable would have to have enough numbers to improve statistical power, brand differences, strength differences, and would also have to provide a time component in addition to the previously mentioned factors. Good enough will have a monetary cost. Publishable will have a monetary cost and a temporal cost. I will decide if I even feel like doing it after I have looked at my pricing options over the next few days.

If you want to invest the time, I'll throw in $ for the bulbs (& fixtures if need be).

 

[Tom]

We cant always rely on the fact of guessing.

I am not guessing. I and many others have seen this first hand. I do not wish to discourage more research and understanding about this problem, but I don't expect much to come of someone buying a bulb and measuring the UV output. This has been done. We have several graphs on a thread somewhere here that show the light output of many individual bulbs.

Not all of these bulbs cause the problem. I have seen many in use that did not seem to hurt a thing in seemingly similar circumstances to the bulbs that DID cause harm. The only way to really test this would be to have a light meter or several meters with you at the time that you stumbled upon one of these cases. You would have to measure THAT light, in THAT enclosure on THAT day to get meaningful readings and discover what might be going on that is causing the eye damage. It has been suggested that quality control and/or manufacturing tolerances in the bulb factories might be to blame for the inconsistencies, but again, I don't need to know what a bullet is made of, to know that it will hurt you if it strikes you at 3000 feet per second. Whether it is solid copper, or copper coated lead, makes no difference to the recipient. If someone else wants to know what the bullet was made of, that is fine with me. I am still going to recommend that people don't stand in front of it.

It might not even be UV. It might be light intensity. It might be a behavioral issue that happens under some of these lights and not others. To deny that there is a problem because we do not know EXACTLY what the problem is would be foolish. If we knew exactly what the problem was, it wouldn't happen. Because it DOES happen means there IS a problem at least SOME of the time.

 

[Baoh]

It seems that I have everything I need except the bulbs. I will price them in the coming days and then decide based on what I find. Maybe I can give it a broader utility. Maybe.

How deep are you wanting to get into this? Are you thinking about testing multiple bulbs or testing a bulb in different orientations?

That is part of my consideration for how far I want to take the idea. Good enough would just have some replicates, orientation differences, and height differences. Publishable would have to have enough numbers to improve statistical power, brand differences, strength differences, and would also have to provide a time component in addition to the previously mentioned factors. Good enough will have a monetary cost. Publishable will have a monetary cost and a temporal cost. I will decide if I even feel like doing it after I have looked at my pricing options over the next few days.

If you want to invest the time, I'll throw in $ for the bulbs (& fixtures if need be).

---

I appreciate the generosity of your offer, but I will cover the cost if I decide to proceed. Especially if I benefit from an article.

---

 

[jaizei]

I think that's enough. Topic is coil bulbs. Anything else will be removed.

 

[Jd3]

Has anyone used a UV light meter to verify any of these claims? They are available for purchase.

Who said anything about UV? I don't know that UV is, or isn't the problem. I don't need a light meter to tell me that an animal under one of these bulbs is having eye issues.

The animal goes for years with no issues. The person adds a coil bulb and the animal under it develops eye issues. Remove the coil bulb and the animal heals up and goes back to normal. What do I need a $300 dollar UV light meter for?

I've seen the above scenario many times with several species, with bulbs mounted sideways or vertically.

Go ahead Baoh. Ask me for scientific proof that would take thousands of dollars and a lab with scientists to conduct it. Lets spend several hours debating why this is not practical, but nothing less will satisfy your superior intellect.

I don't have scientific proof. I don't care to spend my time searching for anecdotal evidence on the internet. I've seen it repeatedly with my own two eyes, and that is enough for me to recommend people not use them.

Scientific research is good. Not bad. Having answers to what is and is not happening under these bulbs would be good. Not bad.

BTW. Yvonne stated in the second post in this thread that too much uv was suspect.

---

Uv measurements may not prove or disprove anything. But it would at least clarify some. Many people state that uv hotspots cause issues with these lights. You've said it.

 

[WalterSulcata]

OMG, as a newbie I really do not want to step in here. But I have to ask, pardon me if I should start a new topic but this subject makes me want to ask one question. Is too much UV a bad thing from natural sun ? How it relates the this light, which I never even heard of until reading this, is that if it can produce too much UV, then if you live in an area of full sun and close to the equator, can the tort get too much UV that way. Seams he is always running out of the sun whenever I put him in it, even if the outside temps are only 85 deg. I will get sunburned in 20 min unprotected.