Coil bulb

[mainey34]

We cant always rely on the fact of guessing.

I am not guessing. I and many others have seen this first hand. I do not wish to discourage more research and understanding about this problem, but I don't expect much to come of someone buying a bulb and measuring the UV output. This has been done. We have several graphs on a thread somewhere here that show the light output of many individual bulbs.

Not all of these bulbs cause the problem. I have seen many in use that did not seem to hurt a thing in seemingly similar circumstances to the bulbs that DID cause harm. The only way to really test this would be to have a light meter or several meters with you at the time that you stumbled upon one of these cases. You would have to measure THAT light, in THAT enclosure on THAT day to get meaningful readings and discover what might be going on that is causing the eye damage. It has been suggested that quality control and/or manufacturing tolerances in the bulb factories might be to blame for the inconsistencies, but again, I don't need to know what a bullet is made of, to know that it will hurt you if it strikes you at 3000 feet per second. Whether it is solid copper, or copper coated lead, makes no difference to the recipient. If someone else wants to know what the bullet was made of, that is fine with me. I am still going to recommend that people don't stand in front of it.

It might not even be UV. It might be light intensity. It might be a behavioral issue that happens under some of these lights and not others. To deny that there is a problem because we do not know EXACTLY what the problem is would be foolish. If we knew exactly what the problem was, it wouldn't happen. Because it DOES happen means there IS a problem at least SOME of the time.

Regardless, Tom...you are always guessing.by the way, that comment was not directed at you. But it is now.... You really do not have all the facts. To jump down my throat about a comment I've made? Anyways. How do we know for sure that it that one specific bulb? We dont..i want proof. Why are they still selling them? Why are people still buying them?

 

[Tom]

Regardless, Tom...you are always guessing.by the way, that comment was not directed at you. But it is now.... You really do not have all the facts. To jump down my throat about a comment I've made? Anyways. How do we know for sure that it that one specific bulb? We dont..i want proof. Why are they still selling them? Why are people still buying them?

Well hold on here, I am not jumping down your throat here, just making tortoise conversation and addressing the above quoted comment you made. Sorry for making you feel attacked.

Please clarify: What do you mean, I am "always guessing"? In general I don't like to make unfounded guesses and so I conduct my own research and experiments so that I have something to found my statements on. I've made lots of threads demonstrating this over the years. I don't defend points that I am not sure of, and if I am speculating or guessing, I say so. An example would be speculating about what hatchling sulcatas do in the wild. I have a pretty good idea based on what I've seen in captivity and conversations with people who have seen them in the wild and know the area that they come from, but I can't say anything definitive about what wild hatchlings actually do. Same thing abut the coil bulbs. I don't know exactly what the problem is, but I do know there is a problem. That is not a guess.

You are correct that I do not have all the facts. No argument. Does anyone have ALL the facts? I don't even wish to speculate what causes the problems with some of these coil bulbs, but that does not mean that there is not a problem. I don't have all the facts, but I do have at least one: Sometimes these bulbs damage tortoise eyes. As I've already stated, I would love to have more research done and find out specifically what the problem is, and if it can be "fixed", but until that time I think it is good advice to recommend people not use them.

To answer your questions:
I have seen this with multiple brands of bulbs. How could I "prove" this? I was there. I saw the packaging or read the writing on the side of the bulb.

They are still selling them because people buy them. People buy them because they are still selling them. They put them on the shelves, people buy them, so they put more on the shelves. When people take them back and say they had a problem, the teenage pet store employee is often incredulous. They were told to sell the bulbs, so they sell them. Often two months later that employee is gone and the new guy has sold two dozen of the bulbs he is supposed to sell before he hears of a problem. Its simple economics coupled with ignorance. Many people make the same assumption that you did. If they still sell them they must be okay. If they weren't okay, they wouldn't sell them, right? Well tell that to my friend with the beardie whose eyes swelled up and shut the day she put the new bulb over it. And that was through a screen top. She asked me to come over and tell her what was wrong. Her lizard didn't eat that day and he kept rubbing at his eyes with his forelimbs. His eyes were swollen, had discharge, and were obviously causing him discomfort or pain. The empty package was still sitting on the desk next to the enclosure.
"New UV bulb?"
"Yep."
"When did you put it over the enclosure?"
"Last night after lights out."
"When did this problem start?"
"Today."

I explained to her what I thought was going on, and she asked me the same question that you asked me. "Why do they still sell them?" I gave her the same answer I just gave you. "Because people keep buying them."

She took the bulb back and her lizard healed up and was back to normal again after about two weeks.

Please don't take this personally. Most of us are just here to share tortoise info. That is what I'm trying to do. I meant you no offense.

 

[mainey34]

OMG, as a newbie I really do not want to step in here. But I have to ask, pardon me if I should start a new topic but this subject makes me want to ask one question. Is too much UV a bad thing from natural sun ? How it relates the this light, which I never even heard of until reading this, is that if it can produce too much UV, then if you live in an area of full sun and close to the equator, can the tort get too much UV that way. Seams he is always running out of the sun whenever I put him in it, even if the outside temps are only 85 deg. I will get sunburned in 20 min unprotected.

Don't be afraid to step in...natural sunlight is the best thing. How old is your sulcata? I have a 3 year old who is housed outdoors. She goes in the sun when she wants. I live in arizona, we get lots of sun here. I must say, when i got her she had some pyramiding. She now is nice and smooth. Of course she runs all over the yard and has a good diet..so the answer to your question, in my opinion, is no. Natural sunlight will not harm them.

Tom, i will decline...i don't have anything i need to hide.

 

[J REED]

Wow.....I see I should have just wondered about this instead of asking.I don't like to see discussions got this route.

Jeremy

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Mods .....PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD....

Jeremy

 

[wellington]

Per request of the op. This thread has been closed.