Concerned about Tank

Wilda

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Tank is almost 4 yrs old. He has a wood barn we built him 1 year ago. Temperatures dropped about 12 days ago and he has been in the barn for 10 days now. We think it's because we keep the 2 heating lamps on 24/7. We have a thermometer in there which records an average of 65-70 at night and 70-85 during the day since temperatures dropped outside. Tank is free to walk in and out of his barn. I keep checking on him because I am concerned. Should I be? I placed some kale and fruit in the barn and it looks like he nibbled a little. He opened his mouth really slow today to eat a raspberry. I tried to get him to go after food and I knew the color red would work. As I said, he opened his mouth very slow. I turned off heating lamps to see if he would come out today because it got as high as 70 with strong sun but he remained in barn. The barn has timothy hay. I'm concerned because he hasn't gotten water in 10 days. What should I do. He weighs about 45 lbs and is almost 2ft long. Thanks for your help.
 

Yvonne G

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Let's send a shout out to @Neal . He's also in Arizona and may have some words of wisdom for you.
 

Tom

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Those temperatures are too cold and he's got no way to warm up. These are tropical tortoises and it does not get cold over there. Winter temps over there are like our summer temps here in North America. There is no "winter" for them over there in Africa.

He also needs it dark at night, and light during the day.

Raising the temperatures up to where they should be and some daily warm soaks should help get him back up to speed.

I'd keep that barn 80-85 at night, and 85-95 during the day. We've got some warm weather coming up. Soak him in warm water in the mid day sun.
 

Wilda

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How can it be dark at night if i need to leave the heat lamps on? And now I will add a 3rd light so he will be warmer.
 

Neal

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Temperatures have been pretty rough (by AZ standards) for the past two weeks. It was nice today, but for the foreseeable future it's going to be mid 60's for a high and mid 40's for a low, and colder if you're in the outer regions. Direct sunlight will get him warm enough, buy if he spends too much time in the shade or doesn't come out you'll need to focus on his house temperatures.

As Tom indicated, your temperatures need to be bumped up by about 10 degrees. You can buy a ceramic heat emitter which will emit a lot of heat without any light. There are other heating options too, but without knowing what your set up is like, the CHE is probably the most versatile option. Just be sure that you put it in a ceramic light fixture.
 

Neal

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What type of thermometer are you using to measure the temperatures? Have you moved it all around his barn to make sure you know the entire temperature range inside there?
 

Tom

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How can it be dark at night if i need to leave the heat lamps on? And now I will add a 3rd light so he will be warmer.

You use heating elements that do not emit light.

Ceramic heating elelemnts, radiant heat panels, oil filled radiant heaters, space heaters (not recommended), etc…

Instead of heating a big "barn", I would recommend something like one of these. You can see two different heating strategies here too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/
 

Wilda

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What type of thermometer are you using to measure the temperatures? Have you moved it all around his barn to make sure you know the entire temperature range inside there?
The thermometer is in center of the barn. The barn is 4ft x 3ft. He is staying towards back of the barn right under the 2 lights.
 

Wilda

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You use heating elements that do not emit light.

Ceramic heating elelemnts, radiant heat panels, oil filled radiant heaters, space heaters (not recommended), etc…

Instead of heating a big "barn", I would recommend something like one of these. You can see two different heating strategies here too:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/another-night-box-thread.88966/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/my-best-night-box-design-yet.66867/

What watts do I buy? They have several watts. I know you guys will know more than the workers at the pet store. Do I buy 1 or 2? The barn is 3ft by 4ft.
 

Neal

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Yeah, if he's spending most of his time right under the lights that's usually an indication that he's too cold.

I think you've got the cause for his behavior narrowed down and have been given some suggestions on the next steps to take. The wattage you will need will depend on a lot of things. Is his barn insulated and do you close it off each night?
 

Wilda

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House is made of plywood all around with no insulation. The door is 2 thick terri cloth towels cut in strips at the bottom so he can walk in and out. We used to have a plywood door that really kept the heat in there. Should I put the wood door back on? Does this help to know the wattage I need? The height is 3 1/2 ft. Ty for your help. The floor is dirt floor covered with timothy hay.
 

Tom

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What watts do I buy? They have several watts. I know you guys will know more than the workers at the pet store. Do I buy 1 or 2? The barn is 3ft by 4ft.

There are a lot of variables that determine this. In the end, only your thermometer can answer for sure.

Over head bulbs and CHE's are usually not the best solution for larger tortoises. The problem is that in an uninsulated shed, they simply don't warm things up enough. All your heat is going to escape through the walls and your terrycloth door. Then what happens is your tortoise parks directly underneath the bulbs because he is too cold and those lamps slow burn the top of the carapace, while the tortoise and the air in the box remain too cold.

You need to create a large warm area, not a hot spot under a bulb. In your case, one of the oil filled radiant heaters will probably irk the best, but you'll need to run it on its own thermostat, and I'm not sure that anything will work in your uninsulated box when night temps are in the 30s and 40s. Those heaters are only about $30 at Walmart and the thermostats also cost about $30.
Here are two heater options:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Pelonis-7-Fin-Electric-Radiator-Heater-Gray/26978260
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Optimus-700W-Mini-Portable-Heater-with-Oil-Filled-Radiator/37948255

Here are two thermostat options:
https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/MTPRTC
https://www.lllreptile.com/products/13883-zilla-1000-watt-temperature-controller

I've tried to find cheaper, simpler, easier solution to housing these tropical giants in our temperate climate, and all of my years of trial and error have brought me to those two threads I linked above.

I think you need to retrofit your barn with some insulation and cover it with plywood, definitely put the plywood door back on, get yourself the right kind of heater and a hemostat to control it, block the heater from contacting the tortoise like in my box thread that I linked for you, and get a digital thermometer in there to monitor your temperatures.

He might already be sick from the cold. Proper heat will help him recover if this is the case. Don't wait.
 

Neal

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House is made of plywood all around with no insulation. The door is 2 thick terri cloth towels cut in strips at the bottom so he can walk in and out. We used to have a plywood door that really kept the heat in there. Should I put the wood door back on? Does this help to know the wattage I need? The height is 3 1/2 ft. Ty for your help. The floor is dirt floor covered with timothy hay.

No problem.

It's too difficult to say what wattage you might need, but I think you need to improve his barn by at least insulating it to make it more functional for him. You may want to consider bringing him inside your house until you give him an upgrade, but if that's not possible definitely put the board on the door to hold in whatever heat it can.
 

Wilda

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Just put the plywood door back on and the temperature went to 78 in 20 minutes. I expect it to get warmer. The lights don't hit him directly. They are angled to face the door. He did eat the fruit n some kale. I will get the black ceramic heating bulbs tomorrow. God bless you all n thank you. I will let you k ow how things go. Blessings from Mesa, AZ.
 

Clawem

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Mine is out in his heated box and the outside temp is 23 deg. box temp is 85 deg. If you follow Tom's night box thread they work the best. I also use a small oil filled radiator and it works like a charm. He does come out and walks around a little and then goes back into his box to feed and lay around. I had made the box originally just for the summer and did not add insulation. When the cold weather started it had a hard time keeping the temps up. After adding the insulation everything works great. You cant go wrong building one like Tom suggests.
 

Razan

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Can't say enough great things about Tom's night box. It keeps our sulcata warm to perfection and happy all year long.

july2016-dec 195.JPG
OK it just looks like a plain ole box here, but it has heat on the floor and ceiling. He has not made a burrow since he has his night box. Happy happy tort :)
 

Wilda

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No problem.

It's too difficult to say what wattage you might need, but I think you need to improve his barn by at least insulating it to make it more functional for him. You may want to consider bringing him inside your house until you give him an upgrade, but if that's not possible definitely put the board on the door to hold in whatever heat it can.

Thank you so much. After putting the door back on the temperature went up to 90 degrees. I opened the door the next morning and he came to me immediately ate kale and some fruit along with water and coddle bones. I was so happy he was back to his old self. We hung out together for a while. He then laid out in the natural sun, walked around and then went back to his house. I ordered 3 black ceramic bulbs. He has 2 125 watt bulbs now so i ordered 150 watts for the new ones. Thank you again. Happy to have Tank back. Temperatures are dropping even more so I appreciate everyone's help. God bless you all and merry Christmas.
 

Tom

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Thank you so much. After putting the door back on the temperature went up to 90 degrees. I opened the door the next morning and he came to me immediately ate kale and some fruit along with water and coddle bones. I was so happy he was back to his old self. We hung out together for a while. He then laid out in the natural sun, walked around and then went back to his house. I ordered 3 black ceramic bulbs. He has 2 125 watt bulbs now so i ordered 150 watts for the new ones. Thank you again. Happy to have Tank back. Temperatures are dropping even more so I appreciate everyone's help. God bless you all and merry Christmas.

He shouldn't be eating fruit. Its not good for them. Kale is okay once in a while.

You need a thermostat to control the temperature in the house. Those bulbs shouldn't be left on full blast all the time. If you keep it 90 in there all winter, you will need to soak him in warm water every few days.
 

Wilda

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He shouldn't be eating fruit. Its not good for them. Kale is okay once in a while.

You need a thermostat to control the temperature in the house. Those bulbs shouldn't be left on full blast all the time. If you keep it 90 in there all winter, you will need to soak him in warm water every few days.
Oh his main food is Muzari pellets. I simply used the raspberries to draw him to me because he loves red and it worked. Should I
make his house warmer? He seems to leave it once it gets to 90-92 in there. Even in the hot summer days, he hides in the shade when we reach the 90s. Tank was a rescue. He never had a shelter or heat provided for him from the previous owners (my daughter who did not know how to care for him). He would stay out and just stay in corner of a block wall when it was very cold. Could it be that Tank has gotten used to colder temperatures? Just wondering. What are your thoughts?
 

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