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80°F-100°F & 80%-100% Humidity or 80 to 85°F & 45 to 50% Humidity?!?!


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pguinpro

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Fount this site: http://ojaisulcataproject.org/pyramiding.html

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information and just want to clear things up. The article I read above has completely different temps and humidity.

"A daytime temperature of 80 to 85°F"

"Humidity is very important, but high humidity is not recommended. 45 to 50% humidity is a good range."

I was told by some forum members and read and reviewed some pinned threads which stated 80°F-100°F for day temps and also 80% humidity for baby tortoises. The above article clearly states otherwise; let me know your thoughts on this thanks!

Best regards,

Concerned Sulcata Owner,

Paul
 

Tom

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The above article is wrong. That was written by a good man named Dave Friend, who I'm lucky to know and call a friend. He wrote that article to refute, point by point, all of my new info. This new info was met with tremendous resistance from all sides, even here on this forum when I first joined. Dave was an old school guy and had been doing it "his" way for decades, and it is exactly that decades old info that I was refuting. The old way was wrong and didn't work, but some practitioners of the old wrong ways are clinging to those old things they learned. Dave and I had several conversations after he wrote that and he slowly changed his tune when he heard what I and so many others had experienced and were able to explain to him. He's had some health problems and he's never gone back and changed the website that he typed up so many years ago. Most of what you find for this species will mirror Dave's site. All of it is wrong. They don't know better. They haven't done what we have done here. Many of them don't want to hear it or accept it. Many of them get mad about it. People don't like to be told they've been doing it wrong for years. I used to do it wrong too. I was happy to learn the "right" way, but I guess I'm not like most people.

Sulcatas hatch at the start of the rainy season. It is rainy, hot and humid. These are the conditions they thrive in. Yes, the area is dry for part of the year, but the sulcatas are in warm humid underground burrows during this time. This is why keeping them dry and cool at night kills and disfigures them. There is no cool or dry over there. Babies hatch in the monsoon season. Not the dry season.

Your ambient temp should be maintained no lower than 80 day or night. I like daytime ambient to creep into the high 80s or low 90s during the day. There should also be a basking area around 95-100 for half of each day. Humidity should be 80% or higher all the time. This is what they hatch into in the wild, and this is what works best for them in captivity. I've been experimenting with this for decades. I've done it this way and that way and every which way you can think of. The above parameters work the best.
 

Tom

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Also Paul, I don't think you are confused by the pinned threads on this forum. They are quite clear and easy to understand. You are confused because you are reading different care sheets from different people with differing views all over the place. I could link you to a few more sites that would really confuse you.
 
P

pguinpro

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The above article is wrong. That was written by a good man named Dave Friend, who I'm lucky to know and call a friend. He wrote that article to refute, point by point, all of my new info. This new info was met with tremendous resistance from all sides, even here on this forum when I first joined. Dave was an old school guy and had been doing it "his" way for decades, and it is exactly that decades old info that I was refuting. The old way was wrong and didn't work, but some practitioners of the old wrong ways are clinging to those old things they learned. Dave and I had several conversations after he wrote that and he slowly changed his tune when he heard what I and so many others had experienced and were able to explain to him. He's had some health problems and he's never gone back and changed the website that he typed up so many years ago. Most of what you find for this species will mirror Dave's site. All of it is wrong. They don't know better. They haven't done what we have done here. Many of them don't want to hear it or accept it. Many of them get mad about it. People don't like to be told they've been doing it wrong for years. I used to do it wrong too. I was happy to learn the "right" way, but I guess I'm not like most people.

Sulcatas hatch at the start of the rainy season. It is rainy, hot and humid. These are the conditions they thrive in. Yes, the area is dry for part of the year, but the sulcatas are in warm humid underground burrows during this time. This is why keeping them dry and cool at night kills and disfigures them. There is no cool or dry over there. Babies hatch in the monsoon season. Not the dry season.

Your ambient temp should be maintained no lower than 80 day or night. I like daytime ambient to creep into the high 80s or low 90s during the day. There should also be a basking area around 95-100 for half of each day. Humidity should be 80% or higher all the time. This is what they hatch into in the wild, and this is what works best for them in captivity. I've been experimenting with this for decades. I've done it this way and that way and every which way you can think of. The above parameters work the best.
So clearly I'm new and yes the information is clear on the pinned threads but how do you know your way is correct and the Ojai projects way( Dave's way) is wrong. It looks like most of his torts have grown up without pyramiding? Do you have a lot of torts and successfully raised without PGS? When do you stop using high humidity and soaking?
 

wellington

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So clearly I'm new and yes the information is clear on the pinned threads but how do you know your way is correct and the Ojai projects way( Dave's way) is wrong. It looks like most of his torts have grown up without pyramiding? Do you have a lot of torts and successfully raised without PGS? When do you stop using high humidity and soaking?
There are thousands of threads, posts, and tortoises to prove Tom's way works. Please, let's not go back that road again. It's been proven on this forum over and over.
Also keep in mind location. Someone in Florida with a natural high humidity does not have to add as much humidity to their enclosures except for indoor ones. Someone in Arizona has to add humidity inside and out. Tom put the work in and showed the proof that his way works. It's the main way if not the only way everyone or most everyone on this forum follows with great results. It's not 100% perfect, some of us still get some pyramiding, due to the hot heat bulbs or due to genetics, no one knows for sure yet. However, don't use the high humidity and you will get a very bumpy tortoise unless you live in a highly humid state and you raise your torts outside in it.
 

TechnoCheese

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So clearly I'm new and yes the information is clear on the pinned threads but how do you know your way is correct and the Ojai projects way( Dave's way) is wrong. It looks like most of his torts have grown up without pyramiding? Do you have a lot of torts and successfully raised without PGS? When do you stop using high humidity and soaking?
I actually have a good example. Here’s a side view of Curtis, my sulcata. IMG_1529107075.940980.jpg notice how the top of each scute is pyramided, and the rest is smooth. The pyramided part is from when I was keeping him in 40-60% humidity because I hadn’t figured out that you can’t keep humidity in open enclosures. When I started actually following Tom’s Care recommendations, his growth smoothed out, and he tripled in size.

Yes, Tom has raised A LOT of tortoises, and his care guides are based on his own mistakes and findings. I suggest that you read through his posts. They’re very interesting :)
 

Maro2Bear

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Yep, I agree with @wellington - lets not keep re-inventing the wheel on this issue. There are scores of Sulcatas that have been raised in high humid environments based solely on @Tom ’s in-depth and documented research on this issue.

Lets shoot for establishing life on the moon instead of debating whether or not the Earth is flat.
 

Yvonne G

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We know Tom's way is correct because he took the time to experiment on his babies, and showed his experiments right here in words and pictures on our Forum. The proof is in the pudding.
 

Tom

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So clearly I'm new and yes the information is clear on the pinned threads but how do you know your way is correct and the Ojai projects way( Dave's way) is wrong. It looks like most of his torts have grown up without pyramiding? Do you have a lot of torts and successfully raised without PGS? When do you stop using high humidity and soaking?
I know my way is correct because I have done on literally hundreds of tortoises of many species. Thousands of other people have also done it my way and achieved the same excellent results. Anybody, anywhere in the world can raise a smooth healthy tortoise doing it the way I outline.

I know Dave's ways is wrong because I and everyone else I know did it that way for 2 decades. It doesn't work. I tried and failed many many times. So did many other people.

I soak babies daily. When they reach 100 grams, I start skipping days. As adults I soak once a week to once a month in winter and two or three times a week in summer. I never stop soaking them.

When they move outside full time, I humidify their heated night boxes with tubs of water. So I never stop humidity, but they do walk around in the dry air here during the day.

Yes, I have a lot of tortoises that have been raised smooth with high humidity and their pictures are all over this forum, as are my threads showing all of my experiments over the years.
 

ascott

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Fount this site: http://ojaisulcataproject.org/pyramiding.html

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information and just want to clear things up. The article I read above has completely different temps and humidity.

"A daytime temperature of 80 to 85°F"

"Humidity is very important, but high humidity is not recommended. 45 to 50% humidity is a good range."

I was told by some forum members and read and reviewed some pinned threads which stated 80°F-100°F for day temps and also 80% humidity for baby tortoises. The above article clearly states otherwise; let me know your thoughts on this thanks!

Best regards,

Concerned Sulcata Owner,

Paul

Where in the US are you? What species of tortoise are you referring to?
 

C. Nelson

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I actually have a good example. Here’s a side view of Curtis, my sulcata. View attachment 242030 notice how the top of each scute is pyramided, and the rest is smooth. The pyramided part is from when I was keeping him in 40-60% humidity because I hadn’t figured out that you can’t keep humidity in open enclosures. When I started actually following Tom’s Care recommendations, his growth smoothed out, and he tripled in size.

Yes, Tom has raised A LOT of tortoises, and his care guides are based on his own mistakes and findings. I suggest that you read through his posts. They’re very interesting :)
I love how you balanced him on a coffee mug!
 

Anyfoot

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Yep, I agree with @wellington - lets not keep re-inventing the wheel on this issue. There are scores of Sulcatas that have been raised in high humid environments based solely on @Tom ’s in-depth and documented research on this issue.

Lets shoot for establishing life on the moon instead of debating whether or not the Earth is flat.
The moon is flat too.
 

ascott

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5 Year Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
16,147
Location (City and/or State)
Apple Valley, California
Fount this site: http://ojaisulcataproject.org/pyramiding.html

I'm getting a lot of conflicting information and just want to clear things up. The article I read above has completely different temps and humidity.

"A daytime temperature of 80 to 85°F"

"Humidity is very important, but high humidity is not recommended. 45 to 50% humidity is a good range."

I was told by some forum members and read and reviewed some pinned threads which stated 80°F-100°F for day temps and also 80% humidity for baby tortoises. The above article clearly states otherwise; let me know your thoughts on this thanks!

Best regards,

Concerned Sulcata Owner,

Paul

You also have to remember, folks share what works for them in their set up/place in the world/species and life in general....the idea of sharing what has worked is to offer up choices and options for you to gather your own set up from....there is no 100% correct and full proof way.
 

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