Does this forum condone tortoise flipping?

[dmmj]

If just a lifestyle change why try to make a profit of a couple of hundred dollars on the torts alone ?

I don't know her situation but she could have spent money on vet visits and Medicine lights things like that maybe she wants to recoup some of her classes she put on free tortoises but I don't know one way or the other so I'm not going to pass judgment on her

 

[Tidgy's Dad]

I don't know her situation but she could have spent money on vet visits and Medicine lights things like that maybe she wants to recoup some of her classes she put on free tortoises but I don't know one way or the other so I'm not going to pass judgment on her

So we ask gently what the problem is and try to find solutions for her to keep her tortoises, make suggestions of how she can hold onto her beloved animals or at least comfort her with words of solace.

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

I don't much care for flipping at all, but not for the fact that someone is making $$. I don't like it as the intermediary owner tends to perpetrate many falsehoods and are genuinely ignorant of the animals history, AND that is the bad thing. It's not about the money, it's about the animal, and the honesty of the seller.

I have looked into buying some tortoises and the seller just makes $hit up about the tortoises' history to make the sale. I think @BrianWI is right to call someone out for gaming the system and essentially being false in intent, if indeed that person acquired those tortoises as a "forever" home.

Even with houses and cars where flipping is a thing. If you like the house or car and the price is right, then buy it. If the house was modified withOUT permits or safety oversight, well that is criminal, actually criminal. Just because there are not laws about flipping animals does not make the falsehoods less criminal in my POV, I just can't get compensation back with lawyers and inspectors. I get screwed.

There are legitimate flippers out there getting screwed themselves. Some people have been buying and selling for 20-30 years and "everyone" knows they flip. That attracts A$$holes that will slip bad (sick, stolen, intentionally wrong Latin identification) in with other, then the legitimate flipper ends up getting screwed, or passing it along. A legitimate flipper tells you what they do know and what they have been told by the earlier owner. They might even talk about the specific risks associated with the tortoise you are interested in.

 

[BrianWI]

I don't know her situation but she could have spent money on vet visits and Medicine lights things like that maybe she wants to recoup some of her classes she put on free tortoises but I don't know one way or the other so I'm not going to pass judgment on her

Then she should be honest about it upfront. "I am selling 2 Russian Tortoises I got for free two months ago because I spent vet money on them. Receipts available". ENABLING them by deleting the comments of those calling them out and moving the post is bad form and is CONDONING the behavior by your action.

 

[dmmj]

So we ask gently what the problem is and try to find solutions for her to keep her tortoises, make suggestions of how she can hold onto her beloved animals or at least comfort her with words of solace.

that's what private conversations are for since there's no comment on the for sale threads

 

[Kapidolo Farms]

Does this forum condone tortoise flipping?

The forum as it's own entity has know general way to know, and the specific case that brought this up is now being addressed, thanks to you. This is a critical topic for people who look to build breeding colonies of any animal. I'm really glad you created this thread with so specific an example.

 

[dmmj]

Then she should be honest about it upfront. "I am selling 2 Russian Tortoises I got for free two months ago because I spent vet money on them. Receipts available". ENABLING them by deleting the comments of those calling them out and moving the post is bad form and is CONDONING the behavior by your action.

actually deleted the posts are following the rules but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this onea

 

[BrianWI]

The OP posted the thread in the Adoptions section where comments are allowed.
The comments were made there.
It has since been moved after the comments were deleted, i think.
So it seems that the forum doesn't condone it but won't tell anyone if we know it's happening ?
We'll let members sell to these people ?

@dmmj

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I actually P.M.ed her a few days ago before I read any of this asking if she was O.K.
My very first thought was helping her. Not anger.
And no. She didn't respond.

 

[dmmj]

@dmmj

Yes? You rang

 

[BrianWI]

Yes? You rang

Read the post above.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

I've let a few of my tortoise friends go to other members. Most for very little money. Some for free, but ALWAYS because I knew that they would be well cared for.
I would be pissed to find out that they got flipped unless it was a very good reason.

 

[Yvonne G]

Then she should be honest about it upfront. "I am selling 2 Russian Tortoises I got for free two months ago because I spent vet money on them. Receipts available". ENABLING them by deleting the comments of those calling them out and moving the post is bad form and is CONDONING the behavior by your action.

We can't pick and choose which posts to delete and which to keep when the rule is "no posts other than the original, in the For Sale thread." She was asking $$ so the thread was moved to the 'for sale' section. Once it was there, the other posts had to be removed. We try to be fair and follow the rules - same rules for everyone. Not bad form at all. If you wanted to call her out on "flipping" and get her opinion, a PM would have been nice, but you could have also started your own thread somewhere where all members could respond. (like you did here, for example)

 

[Tom]

What this boils down to is honesty, integrity and trustworthiness. Lying or being deceitful in any way is wrong in any endeavor. Getting a free, or cheap, tortoise and selling it at a profit to a good home is perfectly fine, as long as everyone was honest throughout the whole deal. Buy low, sell high is what made America great in the first place. Interference with this concept is one of the many problems ruining this country.

To say that all brokers and sellers are bad people is completely and totally wrong. I know many brokers and sellers that are kind decent people that take very good care of their animals. They broker other breeders animals to help the other breeders move their inventory, and they do it to make some money to pay their bills and keep their operation going. Making a profit is not wrong or evil in anyway.

 

[BrianWI]

What this boils down to is honesty, integrity and trustworthiness. Lying or being deceitful in any way is wrong in any endeavor. Getting a free, or cheap, tortoise and selling it at a profit to a good home is perfectly fine, as long as everyone was honest throughout the whole deal. Buy low, sell high is what made America great in the first place. Interference with this concept is one of the many problems ruining this country.

To say that all brokers and sellers are bad people is completely and totally wrong. I know many brokers and sellers that are kind decent people that take very good care of their animals. They broker other breeders animals to help the other breeders move their inventory, and they do it to make some money to pay their bills and keep their operation going. Making a profit is not wrong or evil in anyway.

You are off topic. This isn't about selling torts. This was about taking someone's animals who wanted them to have a good home and then profiting off of them two months later. She betrayed that person's trust. She did not follow the original owners intentions. And if she made a mistake in taking them somehow, she certainly does not deserve a profit. If you don't have morals that question this behavior, maybe you should. And maybe you should stop trying to put words into other peoples' mouths just so you can argue.

 

[Yvonne G]

@Tom - I think the flipping in this thread is not by brokers, but rather by lurkers who never post and only join because they saw an ad for a free tortoise. We don't really know their intentions, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see a brand new member responding with their first post in answer to a free tortoise ad.

And, Brian, there was absolutely nothing offensive about Tom's post. He just misunderstood what you were referring to in your original post.

 

[BrianWI]

@Tom - I think the flipping in this thread is not by brokers, but rather by lurkers who never post and only join because they saw an ad for a free tortoise. We don't really no their intentions, but it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see a brand new member responding with their first post in answer to a free tortoise ad.

Exactly. If you buy 10 sulcata for 400 bucks and resell them, great. If you tell someone you will find their pet a home for them and charge a fee, that is fine too. You tell someone you will take their free animal and care for it for its lifetime and then turn around and sell it, you are a scumbag.

 

[dmmj]

Read the post above.

thank you but I already did, as a moderator I try to read all the threads and posts to make sute the rules are being followed threads that I'm personally involved in I read every single post but thank you for bringing that to my attention just in case you're wondering if I had not read it. Like I said when I logged on it was already in the for sale Section if a moderator moved it, they were simply following the rules as I continued following the rules by deleting any comments on the for sale thead and locking it. If you think moderators following the rules are encouraging or and endorsing something I don't know what to tell you. since anything I say will more than likely never change your opinion one way or the other I'm going to refrain from responding any further quotes you may make of me unless any new information is provided I don't have a whole lot of times of the day for this pointless back and forth. If you feel the need to continue responding to this particular quote feel free to do so but my ego's healthy enough that I don't have to have the last word

 

[BrianWI]

You ask me, then try to scold me? Are mods to act like this here with thinly veiled insults? I don't think much of you either, even less now. Happy?

 

[Yvonne G]

Oh man! Please. Why do posts in the debate section always have to end up like this? I answered Adam's post so David saw no need to respond to it. Then several posts later you 'alert' David and want him to read it, but you failed to quote the post you wanted him to read. This was a total misunderstanding.

Settle down and get back in calm debate mode. This is why so many threads get closed. It really is quite possible to post back and forth without ruffling feathers.