DT brumaters thread 2013-2014

[Carol S]

Today was indeed an amazing day and the reason we put up with so much doodoo in California. Great weather. My neighbor's big boy was out again. She did not notice him eating but he once again went in to his water, not once but several times. I find this very interesting. Any more CDTs out there beside's my neighbor and Carol S's doing this? Carol S, did yours start to wind down prior to Halloween also, and "in bed" by Halloween, do you recall?

By Halloween my three desert tortoises were still coming out each morning and were still eating, although MUCH less. It has only been in the last week or so that one of the three has not come out at all. The second one came out yesterday and today. Prior to that he had not come out for around 4 days or so. Then we have the nosey one who comes out EVERY day, cloudy or sunny weather. I guess they know what they are doing. I think the weird weather has then somewhat confused.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

YouTube video: Tortoise Group (Nevada) September 28, 2013 meeting > Brumation presentation starts at about 14:10

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uX8KLjld_rs

 

[ascott]

Apologies, I find that these types of presentations are exactly what creates poor information....I forced myself to watch this until I could no longer stomach the information being offered....

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Angela, what parts? I guess I was picking and choosing on bits to piece things together on what my neighbor wanted to know. She's afraid her CDT will use up reserves before it get cold-cold. So I was shutting off things I did not need to know.

 

[ascott]

I just feel like all that was being gone over was very text book vs healthy in reality....does that make sense? I was really twisted at the part where the person said some torts are kept from eating for a while before going down and some just eat--so let them do what they want....this bothered me the most...along with referencing this species as a "pet"--I am really annoyed when something is referenced as a pet and a tortoise is certainly not a pet---by no description of the word and therefore should not be treated as such...but hell, I don't even consider a canine a "pet"....this seems to make them equate to disposable....also along with the idea in the vid that euthanizing a protected species as well, an alternative.... Also, I know that Desert Torts are from designated areas and in those areas they are expected to survive without exception, well, that is just not the case--so the reference to keeping them in an outdoor natural dug burrow is not complete and accurate information---for you see, while I love relatively close to their natural land I am in an area that would not be first choice for a DT---the area is low in flood level and therefore not a desirable outdoor location for natural outdoor brumation---flooding would be a huge issue (I know this 100%) yet this was not even mentioned...so an uninformed host would use this info and likely end up with a dead/drowned tort at the end of winter and would simply mark it up as a failed brumation at discovery in spring---but nothing would indicate this at that time--would just be a dead tort at spring, so would be marked up as a failed brumation and not a human error/drowning....you see what I mean? There are a gazillion reasons indoor brumation is favorable...also, advising some silly suggestion to place a lid of water in a box with a young tort to assure dehydration does not occur is just insulting....

There are a grip of things I could go down the list on....but it would tear down in entirety almost the entire vid....

This is even without touching on the BS spewed about sterilizing this species of tort----uggghhhhh.....I will stop now

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Excellent, excellent insight. Now I am kinda glad I linked it because it allowed these thoughts to be presented. Excellent points. Thanks Angela! Makes this forum and our interactions as tortoise keepers here, that much more important, in my opinion. And vital! : )

 

[thatrebecca]

Today marks 3 weeks since Gomez and Morticia have been down and I have a couple questions for you experienced brumaters. Temps for them this week ranged between 42 and 50.

1) Today when I toe tickled -- their first check-in in a week-- it was much harder to get any kind of a response from them. I really had to pester them to get the smallest twitch. Is that something I should be concerned about, or is it merely a sign that they are deep in their brumation?

2) So far they're holding their weight, but they did look a little dry to me. Would it be OK and/or advisable to wake them up at the four-week point for a soak, and then slowly (over a few hours) cool them back down?

Thanks in advance for any replies. I want to make sure I'm doing right by these guys.

 

[T33's Torts]

Re: RE: DT brumaters thread 2013-2014

Today marks 3 weeks since Gomez and Morticia have been down and I have a couple questions for you experienced brumaters. Temps for them this week ranged between 42 and 50.

1) Today when I toe tickled -- their first check-in in a week-- it was much harder to get any kind of a response from them. I really had to pester them to get the smallest twitch. Is that something I should be concerned about, or is it merely a sign that they are deep in their brumation?

2) So far they're holding their weight, but they did look a little dry to me. Would it be OK and/or advisable to wake them up at the four-week point for a soak, and then slowly (over a few hours) cool them back down?

Thanks in advance for any replies. I want to make sure I'm doing right by these guys.

I'm not experienced, but..
1) I'd say you're fine.
2) I would think waking them up is bad.

 

[ascott]

Some days they respond quickly and other days they take a moment...and the main reason for the tickle is to listen for a clear reflex breath and not wet and raspy moreover than the quickness with reply....

If their weight is good then likely you are fine to let be...however, it is aok to bring a tort out to soak the tort ---I would suggest however to not offer a "warm" water soak but more like a cooler (not cold) soak and would not set them in brightest room to do so...then after a soak go ahead and pat em dry and place em back into their hibernacle.... and lights back out...

 

[thatrebecca]

Some days they respond quickly and other days they take a moment...and the main reason for the tickle is to listen for a clear reflex breath and not wet and raspy moreover than the quickness with reply....

If their weight is good then likely you are fine to let be...however, it is aok to bring a tort out to soak the tort ---I would suggest however to not offer a "warm" water soak but more like a cooler (not cold) soak and would not set them in brightest room to do so...then after a soak go ahead and pat em dry and place em back into their hibernacle.... and lights back out...

Thanks, Tiffany and Angela, for your replies. It's funny, only once have I heard a breath when I check on them. Their heads are pulled in their shells. I don't even understand how they breathe in there.

If I do give them a soak then, tepid water in a dark room? I know it can't be hot, but I fear cool water could make them sick.

 

[T33's Torts]

Re: RE: DT brumaters thread 2013-2014

Some days they respond quickly and other days they take a moment...and the main reason for the tickle is to listen for a clear reflex breath and not wet and raspy moreover than the quickness with reply....

If their weight is good then likely you are fine to let be...however, it is aok to bring a tort out to soak the tort ---I would suggest however to not offer a "warm" water soak but more like a cooler (not cold) soak and would not set them in brightest room to do so...then after a soak go ahead and pat em dry and place em back into their hibernacle.... and lights back out...

Thanks, Tiffany and Angela, for your replies. It's funny, only once have I heard a breath when I check on them. Their heads are pulled in their shells. I don't even understand how they breathe in there.

If I do give them a soak then, tepid water in a dark room? I know it can't be hot, but I fear cool water could make them sick.

Welcome. Tepid... on the cooler side of room temperature

 

[thatrebecca]

OK thanks. It still freaks me out how little they moved in response to my touch. Trying to be zen about it. :/

I think I will do a dark, tepid soak next weekend.

 

[T33's Torts]

They'll be fine
I have faith!

 

[ascott]

how little they moved in response to my touch.

So have you been able to get a response of some type?...a breath, a quick retreat into the shell?

 

[thatrebecca]

how little they moved in response to my touch.

So have you been able to get a response of some type?...a breath, a quick retreat into the shell?

Barely. They're already pulled into their shells when I open their boxes. If I poke a foot pretty hard I get a tiny twitch, like a slow reflex response. It's much less of a response than I got the first week they were down, which is why it startled me. I've also lowered temps about 5 degrees since that first week, from an average of 52 to an average of 47.

 

[thatrebecca]

how little they moved in response to my touch.

So have you been able to get a response of some type?...a breath, a quick retreat into the shell?

Barely. They're already pulled into their shells when I open their boxes. If I poke a foot pretty hard I get a tiny twitch, like a slow reflex response. It's much less of a response than I got the first week they were down, which is why it concerns me. I've also lowered temps about 5 degrees since that first week, from an average of 52 to an average of 47.

 

[ascott]

Hmmm? I have never had a time that the men folk here have not responded to my advances P).

The men folk here are completely laid out in their boxes though...once in awhile they will have turned a different direction from one peek to another....is the place you have them in completely dark? Do you have something measuring humidity? How do their eyes look? (I know they are closed but I mean the eye area as a whole)..

You gave their weight not too long ago...how did you get that weight? I mean did they wake up for the weigh in?

 

[thatrebecca]

Hmmm? I have never had a time that the men folk here have not responded to my advances P).

The men folk here are completely laid out in their boxes though...once in awhile they will have turned a different direction from one peek to another....is the place you have them in completely dark? Do you have something measuring humidity? How do their eyes look? (I know they are closed but I mean the eye area as a whole)..

You gave their weight not too long ago...how did you get that weight? I mean did they wake up for the weigh in?

Their boxes are in total darkness -- inside a non-working, cracked chest freezer in a shed with dark curtains. I don't have something measuring humidity, only temps.

Their heads are completely pulled inside their shells, so I can't check their eyes, and they did not come out when I weighed them (I kept the lights dim and did it in the shed, so they weren't out of their boxes for more than a minute or two). There was no movement when I plopped them on the scale, and just the scarcest reflexive pull inward when I poked hard on their feet.

Gomez went in at 17.2 oz, Morticia at 12.3. After 3 weeks, Gomez is at 17.1, Morticia at 12.2, which is within the range of less than 1% body weight loss every two weeks suggested by CTTC.

It concerns me to learn that your guys are always so responsive. Is something wrong?

 

[ascott]

It concerns me to learn that your guys are always so responsive. Is something wrong?

I only asked questions because I am always curious and not as a line to something going wrong

Also, remember the men folk here are all adult males who have done this, a few times to say the least....they are laid out fully extended most times I peek...so when I touch them they hiss/expel and then resume right back to the position they were in...

You have youngins and this is their first time in their hibernacle....have you decided what amount of time you will let them brumate/wake date ...or are you going to let them lead what happens?

 

[thatrebecca]

It concerns me to learn that your guys are always so responsive. Is something wrong?

I only asked questions because I am always curious and not as a line to something going wrong

Also, remember the men folk here are all adult males who have done this, a few times to say the least....they are laid out fully extended most times I peek...so when I touch them they hiss/expel and then resume right back to the position they were in...

You have youngins and this is their first time in their hibernacle....have you decided what amount of time you will let them brumate/wake date ...or are you going to let them lead what happens?

Thanks for asking! And for indulging my anxieties.

I had planned to let them go 12 weeks as long as they're healthy in there -- waking them in early Feb.

Nervous Nelly that I am I checked again tonight and got a wonderfully reassuring hiss from Morticia. Oh it made me so happy! And Gomez wriggled too.

So I'll let them be now till their next weigh-in on Sunday, and if they've lost weight I'll do a soak then. I wish their heads were out so I could check them, but at least they're responsive.