DT brumaters thread 2013-2014

[thatrebecca]

Haha well if you're worried about *my* well being in this whole brumation process, then you're right to be! I'll be a mess. Is it too weird to sleep in the shed with them their first night? Don't answer that.

But seriously, I hope you don't mistake my tweaking for freaking. It's just my nature to keep fiddling to the bitter end. We've had a very warm week and temps are in range, so that's good.

I also intend to weigh them regularly, and of course will wake up a tort if anyone starts losing too much weight.

 

[ascott]

.....

 

[T33's Torts]

Re: RE: DT brumaters thread 2013-2014

Is it too weird to sleep in the shed with them their first night? Don't answer that.

Ehhh.... You're fine
When my little itty bitty sulcatas first moved outside, I slept in a tent next to their enclosure
You we're kidding, and I'm just insane

 

[ascott]

You we're kidding, and I'm just insane

Yeah, I don't think there was kidding there...and nothing insane about it at all....

 

[thatrebecca]

They're in their boxes! This is so emotional. How do people ever have human children? Oy. Anyway, here's a little documentation of the day.

Gomez getting in a last spa this morning:

Morticia at her weigh-in:

Morticia on orchid bark in her box within a box. She also has a small piece of camphor wood, which both torts have in their enclosures and seem to like, plus it helps with that torty smell:



Like his Dad, Gomez always has to have the remote control. Oh never mind it's the temp probe:

Boxes closed, newspapers on top of boxes, freezer held open with a screwdriver. There was about 2 minutes of rummaging noise in there and then it got quiet:

And now Mom is sitting in the shed listening for more rummaging... I feel like they just left for college.

 

[T33's Torts]

Re: RE: DT brumaters thread 2013-2014

You we're kidding, and I'm just insane

Yeah, I don't think there was kidding there...and nothing insane about it at all....

Awe thanks

 

[thatrebecca]

Alas, I'm not spending the night in the shed, but I did just go out for my first official toe tickle before I go to bed. I was happy to see them sleeping soundly, and to provoke a reassuring little twitch in response from each. The freezer is at 52, shed's at 61 and all's well.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

So cute. You. And your tortoise feeties. Night-night babies, night-night. : )

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

When it comes to our beloved gopherus - for all our tortoises really - I firmly believe, the more we know and experience and share, the better. I am therefore sharing this information with y'all. It comes from a very knowledgeable and respected keeper, rescuer and of course, big fan of gopherus, like we all are. Yay! : )

Hi all,
Don in Bakersfield, Ca, here:
I use the word brumation rather than hibernation, they don’t truly hibernate, but it doesn’t matter what you use, just that we understand what works and what may not.

First, my three adults are still up daily, out sunning but not eating.
The three hatchlings born September 16th are still up too, not eating, but drinking water daily.

“To hibernate or not to hibernate”:
Old school thoughts were that since people did not understand the proper method of brumation (hibernation) of hatchlings and they lost so many during that first winter, they should be kept up until 3 or 4 years old. This generally involved keeping them in aquarium tanks, under heat lights or on heat pads, trying to keep them awake with temperatures @ 90-95F and there were often problems with it. Shared experiences from many keepers indicated that those allowed to follow natural cycle of brumation were healthier come spring and we are trying to get people to change to following Nature where possible.

As Cindy notes, they don’t want to stay up, there are major drawbacks to keeping them up (i.e. dehydration due gas heaters, heat lights and/or heat pads (NO NO), as well as resultant issues with pyramiding and other Metabolic Bone Diseases manifestations that many of us started paying attention to what Nature does.

I have successfully brumated almost 200 hatchling desert tortoises in the last 15 years (most from rescues and some from in house hatchings from rescue females that dug nests and laid eggs) and have only lost a total of 2!!!!
I allow them to brumate in a natural dug burrow where possible; barring that I utilize a box with dirt in it, hide boxes covered with dirt and monitor it for temperature and humidity levels. I strive to keep temperatures @ 50F, humidity levels at least 50% and very often, depending on my location, @ 70%.
NONE of the ones brumated developed the pyramided shells and to the best of my knowledge, none have developed bladder stones either (a common occurrence in those kept up for first years with no microclimate available since all it seems to take is one incident of dehydration to start the little grain of sand sized bladder stone calculi in the little critters )

http://www.tortoise trust.org/ articles/ newhibernation.html has a ton of good information on this topic, as does the care sheet at http://www.tortoise .org/general/ descare.html

FOR THOSE that have to keep them up due to illness, best recommendation is to try to keep them at temperatures of @ 80-85F daytime, dropping @ 10F during night, provide area where they can get sunlight during warmer days (through glass will NOT provide UVB rays, needs to be outside even if only for an hour in a protected sunny area so they can warm and get UVB rays).
For the enclosure, they need to have a temperature gradient available, warm at one end and cooler at other, thus the glass tanks don’t work well, an old bookcase actually works better if laid on side, allows better air flow and better temp gradient areas. You can try the UVB lamps, my experience has been that they lose their UVB output very rapidly, often totally dead within six months.

Don Williams, (Moderator: CTTC Turtle and Tortoise list ; Gopherus;
Vets_for_herps; TortoiseNutrition)
*--*--*--*-- *--*--*-- *--*
May You Walk in Beauty
Don :~)> and his desert torts in Bakersfield, CA.
Donsdeserttortoises .com KernCTTC.org (Webmaster) Tortoise.org

 

[thatrebecca]

Thanks for sharing, BeeBee. Really interesting stuff. I was surprised to read that his torts are still up and sunning -- I thought mine were fairly late to go down compared to others.

It was interesting this afternoon to see how much they had slowed after a 24-hour period in their boxes. I had to tickle harder to get a response, especially from Gomez, who seems really out. The freezer held a temp of 53 today -- pretty good cause we were sunny with a high of 85.

The hardest part so far is just that I miss them. It was weird to come home from work and not get them into their night boxes like usual. Now I've started talking to the black widow who lives over the sink, cause there's no other outlet for my maternal energy. She tolerates me.

 

[BeeBee*BeeLeaves]

Here, behind the Orange Curtain, the folks I know that have CDTs, same thing. My poor neighbors. Been hounding them all with questions and updates. Inquiring minds want to know! OC-CDTs are not eating, but sunning and drinking a little still. My bro has our four family heirlooms in Santa Barbara, same. I seem to remember a funny thing. My gramps had a block wall, not anywhere near the tortoises, that had Virginia creeper vine (toxic, do not feed) on it, attached like they do to the concrete blocks. He pointed this out one day: When the leaves on that vine had turned a certain darkish burgundy red and were starting to fall off, that's when the tortoises were out for the count for sure. And in the spring, when the vine started to green up and leaf out, shiny new leaves, shortly thereafter, the little heads and dreamy green eyes would pop out of their "bunkers" (how grand-papa called burrows ... WW2 war speak, I guess). My brother planted Virginia creeper for that reason also. Again, far away from the tortoises but as a measure of weather/season change.

 

[thatrebecca]

So interesting. I love the Virginia creeper anecdote!

 

[ascott]

Now I've started talking to the black widow who lives over the sink, cause there's no other outlet for my maternal energy. She tolerates me.

No no....you stop it....those chicks are not to be trusted.....over the sink? In the house?.....I am cringing out of control here....

 

[thatrebecca]

Now I've started talking to the black widow who lives over the sink, cause there's no other outlet for my maternal energy. She tolerates me.

No no....you stop it....those chicks are not to be trusted.....over the sink? In the house?.....I am cringing out of control here....

IN THE HOUSE. This is what tortoise separation anxiety does to a woman. She lowers her standards to deadly arachnids. And gets weird. On my morning run I'm checking out everybody's dog like some creepy guy who checks out other men's girlfriends.

Does it get easier, this brumation separation?

 

[ascott]

Does it get easier, this brumation separation?

It must----because I have no desire to make nice nice with a black widow.....

On my morning run I'm checking out everybody's dog like some creepy guy who checks out other men's girlfriends.

oh and...LLLMMMMAAAOOOFFFFF....just don't make eye contact...lol

 

[thatrebecca]

OK, question of the day: how often is TOO often to check on your brumating torts? Since they went down on Sunday I've been toe tickling twice a day. Am I actually waking them up when I check on them, or is it a reflex response? If I'm interfering with their brumation by checking so frequently, I'll start just going into the shed to check temps twice a day, but not opening the freezer each time.

 

[65redroses]

I'm nervous too. I have two California desert torts that have slowed way down. But I'm up and down of what to do. So today I'm not feeding them anymore. I am soaking them really good today. They seem very heavy and sturdy to me. I'm also going to shut there lights off and just go for it. Going to place them in a card board box with some shredded news paper and put them in a cool dark space. What do you think?

 

[thatrebecca]

I'm nervous too. I have two California desert torts that have slowed way down. But I'm up and down of what to do. So today I'm not feeding them anymore. I am soaking them really good today. They seem very heavy and sturdy to me. I'm also going to shut there lights off and just go for it. Going to place them in a card board box with some shredded news paper and put them in a cool dark space. What do you think?

My instinct would be to keep your guys up this year, via plenty of daytime light and heat, and start thinking about brumating next year. You might want to stick a temp probe in the spot you have in mind now and monitor temps, so you'll have a good idea if the location is right come this time next year.

Other folks on here with experience over-wintering can give you tips on keeping them up. Every tort/home/situation is different, but what is pretty consistently true is that brumating in a healthful way takes a prep and planning.

 

[65redroses]

So many people I know that live in my area just put them in a box and put them in a closet. They never seem anxious or nervous. So what's up with me. Another guy just puts his tort in a bucket and puts him under his house. They just make it seem that it's really not a big deal. And all these torts do fine.

 

[thatrebecca]

So many people I know that live in my area just put them in a box and put them in a closet. They never seem anxious or nervous. So what's up with me. Another guy just puts his tort in a bucket and puts him under his house. They just make it seem that it's really not a big deal. And all these torts do fine.

There's nothing wrong with being nervous -- it means you care! And I think it's a natural response for a first-timer. The important thing is to make an informed choice about what's right for you and your torts.

In my case, I am going against the conventional wisdom to over-winter a tort the first year you have it. I made the decision based on a number of factors, including that my torts have brumated every year since they were hatchlings, and that their prior keeper told me he did that because he had a difficult time keeping them up.

That's not true in your case as I understand it -- your torts haven't brumated before. And I don't see any advantage to you rushing into it this year, regardless of how easy some of your neighbors say it is for them.

Just my two cents.