Hello everyone! I am looking for a little guidance. I have a 6-7 year old sulcata, Bert. I live in Charlotte, NC. For the past 2 years Bert has been kept outside with shelter, food, and water access in the warmer months and kept inside during the winter in a tortoise table with a heat light, water, food, and hide. I will also soak him periodically. He has done great. This winter, he has gotten too large to keep inside. We purchased him a barn which we heat. I have a separate basking light in the barn for him to go under. He has a food and water dish. I am bringing him in twice a week to soak him. Since making the change I have noticed his bathroom functions have slowed. I know they need some time to adjust but I am worried I am doing something wrong with his new environment. I have a feeling things are a bit dry in there for him it being winter I just don’t know how to keep him constantly wet without creating a mold problem in his barn. Any suggestions are welcome on how I can improve his environment.
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Hi and welcome!
I think we're going to have to see Bert's Barn (has a nice ring to it - Bert's Barn!!). Just off the top of my head - tortoises need to do a bit of walking in order to keep the digestive tract in proper working order. How big is Bert's Barn (Damn I love the sound of that!!!!)?
I think we're going to have to see Bert's Barn (has a nice ring to it - Bert's Barn!!). Just off the top of my head - tortoises need to do a bit of walking in order to keep the digestive tract in proper working order. How big is Bert's Barn (Damn I love the sound of that!!!!)?
How warm is it inside the barn? What's the insulation like? My first guess is it's not warm enough in there, but I could be wrong.
His barn is 10x16. We have 9 acres and he has a large fenced in area he roams when it is warm enough but he doesn’t always get the opportunity in the winter. We insulated with the pink house insulation and dry walled over it. We used foam insulation to try and seal up any nook and cranny that cold air came in through (although I am sure it is not air tight!) the heater keeps it around 80ish during the day and we keep the heat/basking light on for him. It probably dips in the 70 s at night. We have an extra heater to turn on during the extra cold nights. Not warm enough? I will try to post a picture
That doesn't sound too bad. Is the floor and/or ceiling insulated at all?
Pictures will definitely help. Welcome to the forum, by the way!
Pictures will definitely help. Welcome to the forum, by the way!
WOW!! You went above and beyond for that Sulcata! Very nice! But it needs some tweeking. You're going to have to figure out a way to water proof the floor so you can put down substrate. What I'm talking about is not necessarily moisture, but heat. For example, take off your clothes and lay on that floor. I think you'll see that even though the ambient temp in the shed (oh, excuse me - Bert's Barn) is 80F, the floor is quite cold. I'm pretty sure that once you get that floor warmed up you'll see a big improvement in Bert.
Also, the sleeping area. I see a couple things that need changing in there. I would take out the lights and hang them from the ceiling of the shed outside the sleeping area. They're too close to the top of his shell in that area. You can keep a CHE in there IF the CHE is at least 12" away from the top of his shell. You want the sleeping area to be dark. And if that light is a Mercury Vapor light, you shorten the life of the bulb by allowing it to be at an angle like that. It needs to hang straight down. Besides that, the clamp on those fixtures sometimes fails and may cause a fire (especially on dry pine shavings).
It looks like you're using pine shavings in the sleeping area. Pine shavings isn't good for tortoises. Try to find fir bark or coco bark.
But WOW!!! again! Bert's Barn is fit for a King!
Also, the sleeping area. I see a couple things that need changing in there. I would take out the lights and hang them from the ceiling of the shed outside the sleeping area. They're too close to the top of his shell in that area. You can keep a CHE in there IF the CHE is at least 12" away from the top of his shell. You want the sleeping area to be dark. And if that light is a Mercury Vapor light, you shorten the life of the bulb by allowing it to be at an angle like that. It needs to hang straight down. Besides that, the clamp on those fixtures sometimes fails and may cause a fire (especially on dry pine shavings).
It looks like you're using pine shavings in the sleeping area. Pine shavings isn't good for tortoises. Try to find fir bark or coco bark.
But WOW!!! again! Bert's Barn is fit for a King!
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Ok great thank you! The floor is just a vinyl floor so it should resist water pretty well. What suggestions for substrate do you think would work best? Can I put a dry type substrate down or would something I can spray down/keep damp be better? I guess I am just worried about it being “wet” in there all the time if it would result in mold on the ceilings and walls. I want to do what is best for him so if keeping a damp substrate is better I will figure it out to make it work
Well, how big is Bert? We recommend the humidity and moisture for young tortoises to help them grow a smooth shell. Once they get a bit larger, say after a couple years, the humidity isn't all that important. I don't have substrate inside my sulcata's shed, however, I do have the floor covered with rubber horse stall mats that you buy at a feed store. Also, I don't pick up his poop daily, only weekly. By the end of the week he has that old poop all broken up so it looks like he's got a layer of straw/hay covering the floor. Wait a minute and I'll go take a picture of it. . .
I just cleaned it out a couple days ago, so some of those larger chunks haven't had a chance yet to be broken up:
He has access to outdoors from about 7a until I close him in in the evening, and he never pees in the shed, so his "substrate" (read broken down poop) is always dry in there.
Back in the lower right corner Dudley is sitting on an Osborne-Industries pig blanket (out of view), and there's a 250 watt brooder lamp hanging from the ceiling. The light is about 4' away from the top of Dudley's shell, and keeps the ambient temperature inside the shed at around 75F even on the coldest nights. His shed isn't big enough for a heater. We don't recommend red lights for tortoises because the red sometimes makes the tortoise see objects shining red from the light as something to eat, but so far I haven't had a problem with Dudley eating anything he's not supposed to.
Oh, and fir bark or coco bark for inside Bert's sleeping area.
(in case you don't know what CHE stands for:
Ceramic Heat Emitter
)
(in case you don't know what CHE stands for:
Ceramic Heat Emitter
)
You do have a good starting point now for a very nice winter setup. If I were making a Sulcata barn for colder times here's what I would do with your barn:
I would put a night box in one corner. Exactly like you have the sleeping area now, but it needs to be fully insulated just like it was outside. Use the basic plan that @Tom has on the thread "best night box". I know the shed is insulated, but I would want the night box able to provide the heat to get the core body temp to optimal body temperature for your sulcata - which is around 86°. I would install door flaps, fully insulate and have its own heat - radiant heat panel, or CHE's, etc. on its own thermostat. I would set the night box to maintain a temperature of 86°. Be sure the FLOOR of the night box is insulated as well. Ground temperature is extremely important to keeping a tortoise. Most of the time folks have an enclosure heated to where a thermometer shows 80°, but if you measure the temperature of the floor in the corner where the tortoise pushes to sleep, it is much less. This will be the main "burrow" for your tortoise. That is the place it will always go naturally to maintain correct body temperature and allow proper metabolism.
I would get the main heater off the floor. make a shelf or simply put it on the shelf next to it. Maximize floor area for the tortoise. This also prevents any way the tortoise can get to the heater.
For the main area, I would put lots of light. Make it capable of looking like daytime in summer. Here's some easy to install LED's that are quite reasonable and provide very good light. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QW3H6M3/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
I would put a series of 3-4 of them under each of your counters on either side of the shed, as well as 3-4 on the ceiling. set them on a timer to go on for 13 hours each day. At 15 watts, 12 of them are only 180 watts to really make that shed bright and like daytime sunlight. I would then hang a series of 2-3 65 watt incandescent flood bulbs about 12" apart in brooder domes so the bulbs are about 18" above the top of the sulcata's shell. Put these on a timer to go on 14 hours a day (on 1/2 hour before your ambient LED's and off 1/2 hour after your LED's) This is the dawn and dusk periods you are creating. You can then keep the shed at 75°-80° and the basking area will be 95° or so. You could even let the shed drop to 70° for nighttime temps as the tortoise is secure in its cozy night box. Much more energy efficient and much more natural in tortoise behaviors you are stimulating. IF your tortoise needs to stay inside for extended periods, you can then also hang a 48" T5 HO 12% UVB fluorescent along side the basking bulbs. This would only need to go on 5-6 hours midday.
I would put down perhaps 6 - 12" square concrete pavers to create a feeding / basking area that is 2 ft x 3 ft. I would have a portion of those paver extend under the basking lamps. I would put down fir bark or cypress mulch as substrate for the rest of the enclosure.
No matter how big a shed/barn I could provide, I would try to create this type environment. It should be like a piece of outdoors simply limited by the size of the shed we have to work with.
I would put a night box in one corner. Exactly like you have the sleeping area now, but it needs to be fully insulated just like it was outside. Use the basic plan that @Tom has on the thread "best night box". I know the shed is insulated, but I would want the night box able to provide the heat to get the core body temp to optimal body temperature for your sulcata - which is around 86°. I would install door flaps, fully insulate and have its own heat - radiant heat panel, or CHE's, etc. on its own thermostat. I would set the night box to maintain a temperature of 86°. Be sure the FLOOR of the night box is insulated as well. Ground temperature is extremely important to keeping a tortoise. Most of the time folks have an enclosure heated to where a thermometer shows 80°, but if you measure the temperature of the floor in the corner where the tortoise pushes to sleep, it is much less. This will be the main "burrow" for your tortoise. That is the place it will always go naturally to maintain correct body temperature and allow proper metabolism.
I would get the main heater off the floor. make a shelf or simply put it on the shelf next to it. Maximize floor area for the tortoise. This also prevents any way the tortoise can get to the heater.
For the main area, I would put lots of light. Make it capable of looking like daytime in summer. Here's some easy to install LED's that are quite reasonable and provide very good light. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QW3H6M3/?tag=exoticpetnetw-20
I would put a series of 3-4 of them under each of your counters on either side of the shed, as well as 3-4 on the ceiling. set them on a timer to go on for 13 hours each day. At 15 watts, 12 of them are only 180 watts to really make that shed bright and like daytime sunlight. I would then hang a series of 2-3 65 watt incandescent flood bulbs about 12" apart in brooder domes so the bulbs are about 18" above the top of the sulcata's shell. Put these on a timer to go on 14 hours a day (on 1/2 hour before your ambient LED's and off 1/2 hour after your LED's) This is the dawn and dusk periods you are creating. You can then keep the shed at 75°-80° and the basking area will be 95° or so. You could even let the shed drop to 70° for nighttime temps as the tortoise is secure in its cozy night box. Much more energy efficient and much more natural in tortoise behaviors you are stimulating. IF your tortoise needs to stay inside for extended periods, you can then also hang a 48" T5 HO 12% UVB fluorescent along side the basking bulbs. This would only need to go on 5-6 hours midday.
I would put down perhaps 6 - 12" square concrete pavers to create a feeding / basking area that is 2 ft x 3 ft. I would have a portion of those paver extend under the basking lamps. I would put down fir bark or cypress mulch as substrate for the rest of the enclosure.
No matter how big a shed/barn I could provide, I would try to create this type environment. It should be like a piece of outdoors simply limited by the size of the shed we have to work with.
Thanks for all the suggestions and pictures. It really helps! I will start to work on some of these changes for him. He is about 15-20 pounds right now. He finally went to the bathroom. Woohoo! Thanks again to everyone who answered to help get Bert nice and cozy for Winter!
Stitchers
New Member
Bert has a she-shed.
Now Bert is getting a she-sheier she-shed.
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I’d get some insulation around the outside of the shed at the base. If there’s wind it’ll cool that floor substantially and is probably the easiest improvement.
Now Bert is getting a she-sheier she-shed.
—-
I’d get some insulation around the outside of the shed at the base. If there’s wind it’ll cool that floor substantially and is probably the easiest improvement.
