Euthanizing a tortoise

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Isa

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Shelly said:
Isa said:
Really nice post Kayti, I think that a vet is always an option wherever you live.

Unbelievable.....

I think this thread is unbelievable! If you have something to say about what I believe is right, just send me a PM!!!! I do not like trouble maker!
 

Yvonne G

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I think this thread has pretty much run its course, don't you all? The original question was, "What is the best way to euthanize a badly injured tortoise or turtle if a vet is not an option? Does anybody know of a humane method that does not involve violence and gore?"

I think we've all given our opinions, strayed away from the original subject and gotten all of our feathers ruffled. Time to step back and either leave the thread or get back on course and offer a quiet suggestion.
 

Kymiie

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Yvonne, this is just my opinion but I totally agree with you.. It gets me ad every time I read it and to be honest it has most people, Honestly.. i think this should be deleted if it is possible, but that is only my opinion... I know the TFO is here to help but i dont think this thread has helped any1

xx
 

Madkins007

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Meg90 said:
I also think half of the people here don't know what freezing DOES. You freeze from the outside in. First your extremeties then the rest of your body. It is PAINFUL. Eventually the tissues farthest away like your toes and hands, and feet turns necrotic, and dead. The blood no longer flows there, and the nerves begin to die. Has anyone here ever had a severe case of frostbite? Ever see what fingers look like when they are frozen? Your body parts actually begin to die, and blood no longer flows there. They are literally black, and dead. It is NOT painless.

Drowning at BEST takes minutes. SO what if tortoises submerge their heads to drink. That does NOT mean that they know how to hold their breath. I don't know how that would make sense to anyone. They drink the way a human does, by pausing for breath.

Meg, please provide some evidence of your claims. The reports of people who have frozen almost solid and revived do not generally include any comments about pain (other than the pain of the thawing and treatment process) [http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/0197/9701fefreez.html] and almost every report mentions that numbness sets in early in humans- so why not in other mammals and reptiles.

By the way- GETTING frostbite is rather painless (otherwise, you'd feel it happening to you) in fact, you even mentioned that the part is dead- which means the nerves no longer work. It is the thawing and treatment that HURT. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite]

As for drowning, if a tortoise can survive a pure CO2 environment for 27 hours, how are you going to drown it in anything less than that time? Drowning works by blocking oxygen absorption, but turtles need so little oxygen that it takes forever for that to affect them. Remember- water turtles hibernating under the mud are effectively holding their breath for months at a time and tortoises share much of that metabolism. [http://www.tortoisereserve.org/sundry/Hibernate_Body2.html]

They also obviously know how to hold their breath- otherwise they would breathe in as they drank or entered the water.

I agree that a quick death is preferably to long suffering. We just disagree on the mechanics.

emysemys said:
I think this thread has pretty much run its course, don't you all? The original question was, "What is the best way to euthanize a badly injured tortoise or turtle if a vet is not an option? Does anybody know of a humane method that does not involve violence and gore?"

I think we've all given our opinions, strayed away from the original subject and gotten all of our feathers ruffled. Time to step back and either leave the thread or get back on course and offer a quiet suggestion.

I'm sorry, I was posting an earlier reply even as you were posting this. I agree that we've probably answered the OP.
 
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stells

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I have been searching high and low on SW for a story on their of someones Redfoot that ended up in a very deep pond.... nobody knows how long it was there... but it came out of the situation alive and kicking... i so wish i could find the thread...
 

Yvonne G

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stells said:
I have been searching high and low on SW for a story on their of someones Redfoot that ended up in a very deep pond.... nobody knows how long it was there... but it came out of the situation alive and kicking... i so wish i could find the thread...

I took a female desert tortoise to the vet for an abscess on her nose. The vet wanted to anesthetize her to excise it, however after holding the cone over her nose (head) for over a half hour, he couldn't get her to breathe in the chemical. She was holding her breath.
 

gummybearpoop

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I have euthanized a reptile using the freezer method. After research, I chose my option and have no regrets. It was sad, but it was more sad to see my animal suffer.

Sometimes, we have to make important decisions for our pets, ourselves, and others we care about. Sometimes, you have to get to that point and you do what is necessary for the "victim" and yourself.

Everyone's decision is like an opinion and we may not be all on the same page.

Hopefully, no one else has to make such a decision, but inevitably it will happen. We honestly do not know which is more painful for an animal because us humans all have different measures/penchants for pain. I have had a broken clavicle and the bone pierced my skin. I was fine and I waited 7 hours before I saw a doctor (which I was forced which was good because of the risk of infection). I was actually laughing about it and my friend forced me to stop laughing so much because blood would squirt out of my wound. Some people cry when they get a small laceration or paper cut. Every human is different. I know this is going off track, but pretty much I am saying pain is difficult to measure regardless of who it is.

Pretty much it comes down to if you can live with your decision on your euthanization-method.
 

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gummybearpoop said:
We honestly do not know which is more painful for an animal because us humans all have different measures/penchants for pain.

And in this same vein: Animals, whether mammal or reptile, can compartmentalize their pain and not feel it like us humans do. I've seen quite a few badly injured turtles that acted normally, trying to get away, running along the ground as if nothing were wrong with them, all the while I could see their heart beating through the hole chewed by a dog. We can't put our human feelings on an animal. They are much better at hiding pain than we are.
 

gummybearpoop

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emysemys said:
gummybearpoop said:
We honestly do not know which is more painful for an animal because us humans all have different measures/penchants for pain.

And in this same vein: Animals, whether mammal or reptile, can compartmentalize their pain and not feel it like us humans do. I've seen quite a few badly injured turtles that acted normally, trying to get away, running along the ground as if nothing were wrong with them, all the while I could see their heart beating through the hole chewed by a dog. We can't put our human feelings on an animal. They are much better at hiding pain than we are.


Very true. Many times you will see animals in the wild with missing limbs that have healed and the animal is still thriving. Most of us weak humans would probably bleed to death if we lost a limb without medical attention.
 

terryo

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By the way- GETTING frostbite is rather painless (otherwise, you'd feel it happening to you) in fact, you even mentioned that the part is dead- which means the nerves no longer work. It is the thawing and treatment that HURT. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frostbite]

I don't know about this statement Mark....Before the nerves die ...there is pain...just like when a person gets burned.
I won't go into detail with this story....Several years ago a rescue Bull Terrier had frost bit (my dog). He almost lost his foot...we were very lucky....He was in terrible pain, and was on a pain drip for days....Was the pain while he was freezing, or when he was warming up?.....BOTH according to our Vet. Wasn't anyone ever out in the snow, and your hands were so cold that they hurt? I was. I'm sure this doesn't apply to tortoises, but.....How would anyone know what a tortoise feels?? They cannot tell us. As far as I'm concerned...We don't know. There are signs to tell how a dog feels pain, a human can tell us if he feels pain, but a tortoise....NO. Sorry, but I can't even read any more of this thread....it's really getting me grossed out.....guess cause I'm a city gal and don't live on a farm, and never had to do the things mentioned here......Thank God!
 

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That's a bunch of bulljunk about it not hurting to get frostbite. Have you ever been COLD?

In WI right now it is like 22F out and let me tell you walking SIX blocks to class makes my hands hurt like hell.

If you think it doesn't hurt to be frozen, then I dare you to fill a bucket with ice and put your hands in it. I wanna know how long you can keep them their before you feel pain.
 

gummybearpoop

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Meg90 said:
That's a bunch of bulljunk about it not hurting to get frostbite. Have you ever been COLD?

In WI right now it is like 22F out and let me tell you walking SIX blocks to class makes my hands hurt like hell.

If you think it doesn't hurt to be frozen, then I dare you to fill a bucket with ice and put your hands in it. I wanna know how long you can keep them their before you feel pain.

To me the cold doesn't hurt. After a while, my body becomes numb and I don't feel too much.

I even have pictures of me barbequing without a shirt in the snow. But there is no need to post that. haha :D

In addition, I was out in the snow in Germany in just my underwear. It was cold, but not painful.

Do not ask me how I get in these situations. ;) :cool:
 

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My sister and brother-in-law love to eat Lobster and we argue about it just like on this thread. I ask them why they would drop something in a boiling hot pot and not expect that it's going to suffer, but they don't want to admit it to themselves because they want to be able to eat this very expensive seafood. To me it's more like the roach that lives and eats everything at the bottom of the ocean. I think it has to do with we're humans so who cares. If we don't understand it than it doesn't exist. :(
 

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Ice water is 32F which your body can feel and it does hurt. A -30F wind does not hurt because it kills the layers of skin so fast, and thats what's so dangerous about frostbite. I get frostbite at least once a year snowmobiling. I never know I have frostbite until long after I got it, usually when we are warming up in a resturant. Its not unusual to snowmobile in northern NY in -25F wheather with 60 MPH winds. Very dangerous if your skin is not covered!

This is just my experience with frostbite, it may be different for other!
 

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Re: lobsters, there is study after study that shows that lobsters don't register pain when that happens, I know everyone talks about the lobster screaming when you boil it but that is just air escaping from it's shell. I am not saying to start eating lobster if you are against it, but they don't register pain like we do, has to do with the way their nervous system is, not as developed and stuff like that. reptiles on the other hand can feel pain, but I have seen turtle (RES) with missing limbs acting like nothing is wrong and healed I know if I lost a limb I would most likely bleed to death without a doctor's help. But remember I am a highlander so the only way to get rid of me is to cut off my head. There can be only one.
 

chadk

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I think we need to clear up a few things. Dieing of exposure, like in the movies, is not really the same as "freezing to death". What happens to most people who end up lost in the mountains or fall overboard in the cold water (even here in the Puget Sound) is that they die, not from freezing, but from hypothermia. This kills many people each year. It does not have to be freezing for this to happen. Your core body temp just has to reach a certain level. If you are cold, wet, and have no way to keep your body warm, you are at risk of hypothermia. And yes, you can fall asleep and never wake up if you have, or are getting hypothermia. Now I don't know enough about how this translates to torts... But I can see how EJ's fridge first, then freezer method would work - get the animal into a sleep or near sleeping hypothermic state, then freeze...
 

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dmmj said:
Re: lobsters, there is study after study that shows that lobsters don't register pain when that happens, I know everyone talks about the lobster screaming when you boil it but that is just air escaping from it's shell. I am not saying to start eating lobster if you are against it, but they don't register pain like we do, has to do with the way their nervous system is, not as developed and stuff like that. reptiles on the other hand can feel pain, but I have seen turtle (RES) with missing limbs acting like nothing is wrong and healed I know if I lost a limb I would most likely bleed to death without a doctor's help. But remember I am a highlander so the only way to get rid of me is to cut off my head. There can be only one.

I would love to read those so called studies. Sounds like humans did them if they were done at all. I mean why would they study whether or not a Lobster feels pain or not? Maybe they put that out there so we humans don't feel bad about it. Plus I know studies have been done on a lot of things and later on they find gee they were wrong. I do not believe that story of air escaping. I think that's probably made up by someone who sells Lobsters. So in these studies do they tell what the Lobster feels at all or do they have a clue? I find it hard to believe that they don't feel any pain. I am having such a hard time believing that you drop something (anything living) in boiling water and it's eyes don't feel anything, it's internal organs don't feel anything, it's shell that probably has a lining which harbor those nerves you were mentioning don't feel anything. That just really seems inpossible to me.
 

dmmj

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Ask and you shall recieve candy here is one
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/14/tech/main673989.shtml
Norwegian university and reported by CBS I do not post stuff here without being able to back it up. I hope this helps even if it is totally off topic.
It may not be definitive but I also read more proof if you need it that by putting them in upside down temporaily stuns them enough until they are dead by the water anyways.
 

Madkins007

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Meg and Terryo, re: frostbite.

I posted a link for a reason- to back up my statement. Wikipedia says:

"Stage 1
First degree frostbite causes skin to appear yellow or white. There may also be slight burning sensations. This stage of frostbite is relatively mild and can be reversed by the gradual warming of the affected area.

Stage 2
Second degree frostbite develops after continued exposure. This stage is characterized by the disappearance of pain and the reddening and swelling of the skin. Treatment in this stage may result in blisters and it may also peel the skin."

So- some burning or tingling sensations in Stage 1 (rarely described as very painful), and the disappearance of pain in Stage 2. This pattern is discussed in almost all descriptions of frostbite-
- http://www.emedicinehealth.com/frostbite/page3_em.htm#Frostbite Symptoms
- http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000057.htm
- and so on.

This topic is hard enough to discuss. Let's try to keep things based on facts when possible.
 
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