EVs?

[ZEROPILOT]

I have a present for Z;

View attachment 341611
Enjoy the eye candy Z, we think alike! As you can still see in the background if you open the pic in a new tab to make it bigger, this is about half my garage...the little silver car goes on the left side. You should see the b4 pics for the 2 closest, both are very highly modified, I do my own work. #3 is '75 H2-100% Stock, #4 is '82 Yammy Turbo running 18psi w/ blowoff @22, #5 is my vstrom1000 rigged for hwy I ride to Vintage Days in Ohio on it.


iF WE CAN'T SERVE UP A GIFT oops, for a Mod, who can we do it for?



That done, keep in mind folks as we discuss things, that for thousands of years there have been two classes of information. Let me explain what I mean;

We all learned for instance that Columbus discovered/proved/braved that the Earth was round and he could have FALLEN off the edge................BS.

The Greek knew hundreds of years BC that the Earth was not only round, observed by lunar eclipses, they knew the size of it as well! With no ability to read, no access to books or education, the COMMON people didn't know so they relied on word of mouth, myths etc....a lack of info in other words..........

Yet we still learned nearly two thousand years later that some guy in 1492 had something to do with the shape of the planet?

I'm not so sure it's not still the same way today......just a little different.....

There are so many competing agendas, it's difficult to discern the truth since most arguments are built on partial truths. The "News" is now so loaded with personal opinion that the Geodesic station near the cemetery where Walter Cronkite is buried is reporting near-constant Richter activity as he rolls in his grave, so most of us will wait for the dust to settle knowing that there is risk in adopting early.


When you find people who have found a way to make huge sums of money by using YOU as a tool, one should be wary, don't you think?


FWIW- I use window shakers after learning the efficiency of them, gas heat and gas FP that I use most days in the winter..........I use year round budget billing and pay 226mo for a 3200sf and I use the tstat as a personal comfort unit. According to the bill, it's underwater by a few hundred so they will prob adjust it up to 250 or 270 soon. I keep it 72W and 70S...I like to be comfy.

6-800 a month? What does one get extra for that? Sparkles, ouch?

Is that blue Kaw a KH500 or KH400?
The 400 is the only S or KH triple I've never owned.

 

[jeff kushner]

Is that blue Kaw a KH500 or KH400?
The 400 is the only S or KH triple I've never owned.

'75 S1 250 w/ Raised 350cc cylinders, 28mm flatslide carbs, wraparound ports, Jeff D in PA did the Countersunk squish heads for me and the tank is a NOS. Like I said, the first 2 are very highly modified......lots of fun Z.

 

[Cathie G]

I think it's going to be quite a few years before they will sell this to enough people to make a difference. They started with the cart before the horse. They needed to get the charging figured out to the fastest it can be and then get enough of them all over the place so people would feel confident that they would always be able to charge up.
A cross over or hybrid I think they are called one of those, that uses electric and gas is a better choice.

My mother had a hybrid and I thought it was a really great idea. They switch back and forth. While it's using gas it charges the electric and switches back to electric when it's full. I think that's the best too. It'll do that even on the highway and you can't even feel the difference. It still takes something to produce the electricity to charge the batteries unless everything is solar power and that's a long way off.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

'75 S1 250 w/ Raised 350cc cylinders, 28mm flatslide carbs, wraparound ports, Jeff D in PA did the Countersunk squish heads for me and the tank is a NOS. Like I said, the first 2 are very highly modified......lots of fun Z.

Is the H1 set up with reed valves or are those just carb adapters?

 

[Pistachio's Pamperer]

Just bought a Jeep 4xe which is a hybrid. My electric is limited to basically 20-30miles. But I wanted a Jeep and the ability to try out the electric capability. I also wanted to have both gas and electric for now. We have a ton of chargers here surprisingly with it being the “sticks”—I live close to the Bristol raceway if that helps anyone. I love the instant horsepower and torque—which is a thing you will experience in any hybrid or electric.
I having a small electric battery means charging for me is like an hour on a quick charging station and on typical wall plugin(like in yr house) it takes a few hours to charge. And I love degenerative braking which reminds me of driving a manual. For those that don’t know that braking helps put charge back to the battery and cuts down on yr usage,granted it’s only like 1-3% during driving but it’s still a savings. Foot comes off gas and vehicle slows down and eventually comes to almost a stop which is great around here with the curvy and hilly roads.
I am totally going to another hybrid or full electric once my Acura is done. So I have been doing a ton of watching and research. There is stuff coming and the tech will only get better. As much as I hate to call the FORD electric “car” a MACH or a Mustang it is showing some real promise.

There are apps that you can run on yr phone that show you where charging stations are or even help map yr trip taking charging into consideration.

I watch the guys over at TFL truck on YouTube. They have multiple channels and are based out of Colorado. They now have a channel that is nothing but EV tech and are deadly honest about their experiences. They have gotten big enough that they get invited to car shows and other manufacturer promos. They are given vehicles to test by the manufacturers sometimes for days and sometimes for like a year. They put some of these vehicles through off-road and towing trials. They tow up the Ike in Colorado which is a really good test. Roman, Tommy(his son), Nathan, and Andre are good guys who I have actually met.
They had nice experiences with RIVIAN but unfortunately I don’t know if rivian is gonna make it with production problems and price hikes.
As for a van or such that’s probably going to be something that is going to be a ways off for the general public but something you will be able to possibly find if you connect to a dealership that sells “work” vehicles. Pray Fedex,ups, usps and Amazon push more and then I think you will see a better gain in the tech and vehicles available.
If I get a chance you can bet I would drive a RIVIAN and I am interested in trying out the ford lightning.
Probably 2-5years unless the gas situation gets much worse before I will be seriously shopping.
Right now if I was forced I would honestly be looking at a Hyundai as their batteries have the most bang for the buck.
Just my two cents.
-Meg

 

[Maro2Bear]

Just bought a Jeep 4xe which is a hybrid. My electric is limited to basically 20-30miles. But I wanted a Jeep and the ability to try out the electric capability. I also wanted to have both gas and electric for now. We have a ton of chargers here surprisingly with it being the “sticks”—I live close to the Bristol raceway if that helps anyone. I love the instant horsepower and torque—which is a thing you will experience in any hybrid or electric.
I having a small electric battery means charging for me is like an hour on a quick charging station and on typical wall plugin(like in yr house) it takes a few hours to charge. And I love degenerative braking which reminds me of driving a manual. For those that don’t know that braking helps put charge back to the battery and cuts down on yr usage,granted it’s only like 1-3% during driving but it’s still a savings. Foot comes off gas and vehicle slows down and eventually comes to almost a stop which is great around here with the curvy and hilly roads.
I am totally going to another hybrid or full electric once my Acura is done. So I have been doing a ton of watching and research. There is stuff coming and the tech will only get better. As much as I hate to call the FORD electric “car” a MACH or a Mustang it is showing some real promise.

There are apps that you can run on yr phone that show you where charging stations are or even help map yr trip taking charging into consideration.

I watch the guys over at TFL truck on YouTube. They have multiple channels and are based out of Colorado. They now have a channel that is nothing but EV tech and are deadly honest about their experiences. They have gotten big enough that they get invited to car shows and other manufacturer promos. They are given vehicles to test by the manufacturers sometimes for days and sometimes for like a year. They put some of these vehicles through off-road and towing trials. They tow up the Ike in Colorado which is a really good test. Roman, Tommy(his son), Nathan, and Andre are good guys who I have actually met.
They had nice experiences with RIVIAN but unfortunately I don’t know if rivian is gonna make it with production problems and price hikes.
As for a van or such that’s probably going to be something that is going to be a ways off for the general public but something you will be able to possibly find if you connect to a dealership that sells “work” vehicles. Pray Fedex,ups, usps and Amazon push more and then I think you will see a better gain in the tech and vehicles available.
If I get a chance you can bet I would drive a RIVIAN and I am interested in trying out the ford lightning.
Probably 2-5years unless the gas situation gets much worse before I will be seriously shopping.
Right now if I was forced I would honestly be looking at a Hyundai as their batteries have the most bang for the buck.
Just my two cents.
-Meg

Is it really only 20-30 miles?

➡️ “Just bought a Jeep 4xe which is a hybrid. My electric is limited to basically 20-30miles.”

 

[Tom]

As previously mentioned, I just lived through the gas cut off in Georgia last year when the Colonial Pipeline got shut down. One day we were all driving around like normal, and two days later there was no gas anywhere. It made me wonder, in these crazy times where anything is possible, has anyone considered what happens if gas runs out? What if there is no gas? Sounds crazy I know, but two years ago I thought it would be crazy to shut down all of society, force people to wear a mask all day, and force people to let themselves be injected with experimental RNA therapy in order to go to work or to a restaurant for a meal, but here we are...

It might be useful in such a scenario to have a vehicle that could recharge itself with solar power.

 

[Pistachio's Pamperer]

I am also waiting on my solar bids. I have enough property here now to let them panel a good chunk. So house is gonna get some off grid capability hopefully. I also have my order in for a solar panel and converter that I will be able to use for the Jeep which is portable.

And yes… unfortunately the Jeep only gets 20-30miles full electric before I am using gas. For now. I look for Jeep to increase this in all vehicles. The New York car show is coming and there are supposed to be major changes announced for Jeep and dodge EV vehicles. I also am hopeful that they have a retro fit solution to increase my batteries efficiency and storage capacity. 20-30 miles is also with a vehicle whose curb weight is over 5000lbs. And when towing I notice no difference in usage with 3000lbs behind me. My batteries are also so small they fit under the back seats and have only 18kwh storage.

My driving locally is always 20-30miles one way. Then a charge. Then back home where I can plug back in. Jeep has monitoring systems and I have put about 400 miles on at this point and only 20 of those since the birth of the vehicle have been on the gas engine. We will see how it does.
Right now I am pleased as punch because it’s doing what I wanted for me. It’s not for everyone and definitely not something that would be good for a long trip.
-Meg

 

[Mrs.Jennifer]

I know that I'm going to be a minority.
I'm just a fan of internal combustion engines and I haven't been able to get over my dislike of EVs.
I like the mechanical parts, the smells, the sounds. All of it.
I have 3 old Kawaski two stroke motorcycles. These engines went out of favor in the early 80s. Too polluting. I've kept them because of how they make me feel. Like they are alive almost.
I know that electric vehicles may even be faster and have less maintenance needs. But to me they have no "soul".
I hope I never get so old that I won't have at least one gasoline powered vehicle in my garage. (Or a shed because gasoline is no longer being made)
I'm not trying to be insensitive to the future. An alternative needs to be found. And for more than one reason.
But you asked.

I hear ya! I am dedicated to cleaner energy, but I am going to miss the throaty purr of my Mercedes V6 when I have to replace it. I test drove a new one recently and 4 cylinders just doesn’t have that same sound…

 

[Tom]

I hear ya! I am dedicated to cleaner energy, but I am going to miss the throaty purr of my Mercedes V6 when I have to replace it. I test drove a new one recently and 4 cylinders just doesn’t have that same sound…

Cleaner energy is a side benefit for me. That isn't what drives me. What I care about is pragmatism and practicality. I'll recap the good points as I see them:
1. 300 mile range, to be increasing to 500+ over the next few years.
2. 300,000+ mile battery longevity. 800,000 in some cases.
3. Much less maintenance. No oil changes, no coolant, etc...
4. Free electricity at home from my solar panels. More free electricity from some of the places where I work.
5. .04 cents a mile for electricity in the event I ever have to pay for it, in comparison to .25 - .43 cents a mile for gasoline or diesel.
6. Quiet operation. (My diesel is SOOOOOO loud...)
7. No fumes. I HATE gas and diesel fumes. Blechhh.
8. I love it when I fill up with gas and my car is sitting in the driveway with a full tank. So much potential. With an EV, I will start EVERY day with a "full tank" for FREE!
9. I hate everything about having to fill my tank. Wasting time, having to search out a station, waiting in line (Costco and Sam's Club), stinky fumes, oil and gas on my shoes so that I have to smell it when I get back in the car, gas droplets on my hands, the expense, the exposure to potential criminals while I'm sitting there pumping. Think about it... Never having to stop and spend money at a gas station ever again. You "re-fuel" at home while you sleep.
10. Power and acceleration. Most EVs are damn fast. Not all, but many of them are.
11. Nobody on either side of the political spectrum wants polluted air and water. Yes I know that some states still burn coal to produce electricity, but many people now have solar panels at home. I'm also aware of the environmental impact of mining the materials to make the batteries, but is that worse than the environmental impact of drilling, refining, transporting, burning, and sometimes spilling oil all over the world?

 

[jeff kushner]

I think you summed it up pretty well Tom, even if we quibble on a couple quants, you have done a nice job of reaching the top of the tree instead of just grabbing the low hanging stuff, well done!

I think we'd also pretty much agree that it would be great if it were cut & dry.

All go-fasters" know this truism by now;

There is no substitute for max available torque at rpm #1, none at all. We can feather that power, tailor it to how we want it applied.....yeah,,,,,power on tap is the cats meow to me too!


I wish businesses had done it on their own though and not sought out Gvmt $$ and it was simply a business enterprise and not some "cause" that seems to have been leveraged by those with a far different agenda than simply getting rich.

I simply do not trust.................I was not born this was, they taught me by repetition.

 

[Markw84]

Just a few points to consider:

The mileage range you quote (and manufacturers quote) is "around town" driving. the constant high speed driving, with no braking, of a long trip will dramatically reduce that range. The sweet spot for EVs is local, shorter trips around town.

The 4¢ cost/mile you are using is based upon 11¢/kWh electricity. In California, it is currently 4 times that rate. I know you have solar that produces enough, but my solar, and many solar systems, do not overproduce, but simply lower the demand during midday. Charging an EV is normally overnight, when solar is not generating. Battery storage would be needed. If counting the overproduction the utility company "buys" from you to pay for nighttime use -- They really get you there. They only pay the rate for the "cost of the electricity itself". Your bill in California actually has 2 parts to the charge - the cost of the electriciy, and the cost of "delivery". With all the wildfires, etc. the utilities have dumped all their increases the past several years into the "delivery" fee. So the cost of electricity may be credited at perhaps 7¢/kWh while we actually pay 45¢ per kWh!!

Most people who have EVs tend to lease them. Buying one outright has caused many grief if they ever want to get rid of it or upgrade as EVs depreciate unbelievably fast. Technology is changing so fast that even 3 yr old EVs are pretty worthless.

 

[Maggie3fan]

They have no such thing as long distance...an. area of 300 miles

 

[Tom]

All go-fasters" know this truism by now;

There is no substitute for max available torque at rpm #1, none at all. We can feather that power, tailor it to how we want it applied.....yeah,,,,,power on tap is the cats meow to me too!

I'm with you and I have a quick stat for you in case you are not aware. My '92 CBR 600F2 made 88 hp, with a dry weight of 411 pounds, and did 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. Nothing on the road could beat it. Even million dollar super cars. Now, I need you to sit down... Tesla Model S Plaid: 0-60 in 1.9 seconds. In the real world on a real track with legitimate timing and scoring. I can't even fathom that. I drove a "regular" Model S in "sport mode", and it was like nothing I've ever experienced before.

I wish businesses had done it on their own though and not sought out Gvmt $$ and it was simply a business enterprise and not some "cause" that seems to have been leveraged by those with a far different agenda than simply getting rich.

I simply do not trust.................I was not born this was, they taught me by repetition.

I see this the exact same way, yet, if the numbers are correct, it works to my benefit. This was the reason for the thread. The numbers look great, but it is beginning to sound to good to be true. What's the catch, right?

 

[Tom]

Just a few points to consider:

The mileage range you quote (and manufacturers quote) is "around town" driving. the constant high speed driving, with no braking, of a long trip will dramatically reduce that range. The sweet spot for EVs is local, shorter trips around town.

The 4¢ cost/mile you are using is based upon 11¢/kWh electricity. In California, it is currently 4 times that rate. I know you have solar that produces enough, but my solar, and many solar systems, do not overproduce, but simply lower the demand during midday. Charging an EV is normally overnight, when solar is not generating. Battery storage would be needed. If counting the overproduction the utility company "buys" from you to pay for nighttime use -- They really get you there. They only pay the rate for the "cost of the electricity itself". Your bill in California actually has 2 parts to the charge - the cost of the electriciy, and the cost of "delivery". With all the wildfires, etc. the utilities have dumped all their increases the past several years into the "delivery" fee. So the cost of electricity may be credited at perhaps 7¢/kWh while we actually pay 45¢ per kWh!!

Most people who have EVs tend to lease them. Buying one outright has caused many grief if they ever want to get rid of it or upgrade as EVs depreciate unbelievably fast. Technology is changing so fast that even 3 yr old EVs are pretty worthless.

Thank you. This is the sort of thing I was looking for. Now we can see a downside. I can't decide of the pros outweighs the cons if I don't know all the cons.

- I hadn't considered the lack of regenerative braking in a long highway trip.
- My electric meter runs backwards all day, so it really doesn't matter what time of day I use the power. If I use the power during the day, the meter goes backwards slower. If I use the power at night the meter simply runs forward. Its still a function of how many kW hours generated per day and how many used. I'd have to hook up an EV and charge it daily for a few months to see if that would push me over the amount I generate during a given day.
- I tend to buy a vehicle and run it until it dies. Short term resale value has never been much of a factor in my decisions, but this is food for thought. I'm pretty sure that if I were to run an EV for 200,000 plus miles, it will be falling apart and breaking down just like any other type of vehicle would.

 

[jeff kushner]

I also

My '92 CBR 600F2 made 88 hp, with a dry weight of 411 pounds, and did 0-60 in 3.1 seconds. Nothing on the road could beat it.

Z, Don't you DARE! If I can leave it alone, YOU can leave it alone......- besides, it wasn't the point he was making which is the ONLY reason I'm letting it slide....sort of....<LOL>

sheepishly, I hand over the "Brass One's" award to you Tom......I can't compete with that brother, that's some kinda Bold!


I am of course, just having fun with friends........

 

[jeff kushner]

Thank you. This is the sort of thing I was looking for. Now we can see a downside. I can't decide of the pros outweighs the cons if I don't know all the cons.

- I hadn't considered the lack of regenerative braking in a long highway trip.
- My electric meter runs backwards all day, so it really doesn't matter what time of day I use the power. If I use the power during the day, the meter goes backwards slower. If I use the power at night the meter simply runs forward. Its still a function of how many kW hours generated per day and how many used. I'd have to hook up an EV and charge it daily for a few months to see if that would push me over the amount I generate during a given day.
- I tend to buy a vehicle and run it until it dies. Short term resale value has never been much of a factor in my decisions, but this is food for thought. I'm pretty sure that if I were to run an EV for 200,000 plus miles, it will be falling apart and breaking down just like any other type of vehicle would.

The "lease" equation is an interesting one.....and one I hadn't considered. I saw the problem of validating old, worn batteries and assigning value, hacks to enable fraud and other bad behaviors but because I "buy", I didn't know what I don't know about leasing to reduce those risks. There are other parts of that equation so I appreciate others pointing them out.... thanks Mark......the beauty of the forum.

 

[Maggie3fan]

The "lease" equation is an interesting one.....and one I hadn't considered. I saw the problem of validating old, worn batteries and assigning value, hacks to enable fraud and other bad behaviors but because I "buy", I didn't know what I don't know about leasing to reduce those risks. There are other parts of that equation so I appreciate others pointing them out.... thanks Mark......the beauty of the forum.

One of the guys at my church takes classic hot rods like my IROC and for $45k turns it into an electric hot rod...he owns a Tesla...I would be so restricted at 300 miles. What the heck good is a car you can't just get in and go...???

 

[Tom]

Z, Don't you DARE! If I can leave it alone, YOU can leave it alone......- besides, it wasn't the point he was making which is the ONLY reason I'm letting it slide....sort of....<LOL>

sheepishly, I hand over the "Brass One's" award to you Tom......I can't compete with that brother, that's some kinda Bold!


I am of course, just having fun with friends........

Oh, I phrased that poorly... I meant no CAR on the road could beat it. Certainly none ever did, and they sure tried. I had friends that used to build street racing hot rods, and they couldn't keep up at 0-60. Quarter mile was a different story with a few of those... but my point was that the model S Plaid is darn fast.

 

[Tom]

One of the guys at my church takes classic hot rods like my IROC and for $45k turns it into an electric hot rod...he owns a Tesla...I would be so restricted at 300 miles. What the heck good is a car you can't just get in and go...???

Doesn't your fuel tank eventually reach empty? You have to stop and refill it, right? How long do those stops take if you go get some food, stretch your legs, potty your dogs, potty yourself, etc...? My stops take 20-40 minutes on average. I just drove to New Mexico for a job last week. We spent about 80 minutes total for all the stops we did for fuel and food and potty breaks. The super chargers take your batteries to an 85% charge in as little as 20 minutes, and they are working on making that even faster. It is now easy to drive cross country in an EV and there are apps that will plot the whole course for you from charging station to charging station. The number of charging stations is expected to triple in the next few years.

Now imagine that "fill up" cost about 90% less... Imagine paying .04 cents a mile instead of .25-.43 cents a mile. What did you used to pay for gas to go from OR to CA? Now figure that same distance at a fraction of the cost...

Also, not many people drive more than 300 miles a day on a regular basis. I only do it a few times a year. People who drive more than that for a living usually are not driving their personal regular passenger vehicles.