Glass and stress

[dolfanjack]

I am so tired of the matra, glass stresses land turtles. I see no proof of this, in my own experiences and in topics I read, but people still insist on it. And what really makes me angry is that aquariums are just fine for water turtles. No one says, keep your your res in a fifty gallon rubbermaid because the glass will stress them. So, are water turtles just stupid and don't know to be stressed or are they really smart and know that funny barrier is there for my protection. All animals, turtles included, will try to escape an inclosier and that doesn't mean they're stressed. My russian occasionally paces but so do turtles in sightless containers. If you have another argument about glass fine, but please stop the whole stress issue. Now let the debate begin.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I'm inclined to think it really depends on the individual tortoise...some seem to stress over "the invisible barrier", others seem to ignore it.

 

[PeanutbuttER]

I've been told it's mostly WC that have problems with it. They're used to roaming and exploring and the temptation of what they can see on the other side of the barrier is just too much for them.

Turtles on the other hand tend to stay in one area for most of their life. They don't have that same urge to roam, so they're more apt to be content with staying in the aquarium.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I am so tired of the matra, glass stresses land turtles. I see no proof of this, in my own experiences and in topics I read, but people still insist on it. And what really makes me angry is that aquariums are just fine for water turtles. No one says, keep your your res in a fifty gallon rubbermaid because the glass will stress them. So, are water turtles just stupid and don't know to be stressed or are they really smart and know that funny barrier is there for my protection. All animals, turtles included, will try to escape an inclosier and that doesn't mean they're stressed. My russian occasionally paces but so do turtles in sightless containers. If you have another argument about glass fine, but please stop the whole stress issue. Now let the debate begin.

What exactly is your point?

NERD

 

[dmmj]

I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.

 

[terryo]

I've kept all my boxies, for over 30 years...that had to stay inside because they were too young to go out....in glass vivariums. I've kept Pio in a class viv. for all three years of his life. Never had a problem with them being stressed. I like to interact with my animals. When I pass by I like to look at them and let them see me. Sometimes they just sit and watch me.....I guess I am their entertainment.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.

I'm thinking it may well be how the glass enclosure is laid out and quite likely how large it is, as well...a roomy container w/ interesting things to do is going to be less stressful than a tiny, boring area (don't guess you've been in jail, but that's pretty much how they are...)

I've kept all my boxies, for over 30 years...that had to stay inside because they were too young to go out....in glass vivariums. I've kept Pio in a class viv. for all three years of his life. Never had a problem with them being stressed. I like to interact with my animals. When I pass by I like to look at them and let them see me. Sometimes they just sit and watch me.....I guess I am their entertainment.

Your enclosures are so natural looking that they likely convince your pets that they're at home, in the wild...nothing stressful about that!

 

[Tom]

I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.

I'm thinking it may well be how the glass enclosure is laid out and quite likely how large it is, as well...a roomy container w/ interesting things to do is going to be less stressful than a tiny, boring area (don't guess you've been in jail, but that's pretty much how they are...)

I've kept all my boxies, for over 30 years...that had to stay inside because they were too young to go out....in glass vivariums. I've kept Pio in a class viv. for all three years of his life. Never had a problem with them being stressed. I like to interact with my animals. When I pass by I like to look at them and let them see me. Sometimes they just sit and watch me.....I guess I am their entertainment.

Your enclosures are so natural looking that they likely convince your pets that they're at home, in the wild...nothing stressful about that!

If I was one of TerryO's animals, I'd be worried that something was going to jump out of all those bushes and GET me!!! I'd be stressed all the time!

Haha. Just kidding.

 

[dmmj]

I can say 100% I have not had the pleasure of ever seeing out prison system in person, not even county jail, am I missing something from not having the experience?

 

[Tom]

Jeez, Jack! You don't waste any time!

I've used glass aquariums for all my reptiles, including turtles and tortoises for 30 years (31 years in Sept.). A few nervous nellie lizards needed a sight barrier, but other than that it has never been a problem. I like that they hold in heat and humidity by restricting air flow. This allows me to use smaller bulbs to save energy and maintain better humidity in my super dry climate up here in the high desert.

 

[dolfanjack]

[glass aquariums are not evil, does'nt cause stress and there is no reason people shouldn't recommened them as a suitable habitat for smaller turtles/tortoises.
quote='Redfoot NERD' pid='148380' dateline='1278889262']

I am so tired of the matra, glass stresses land turtles. I see no proof of this, in my own experiences and in topics I read, but people still insist on it. And what really makes me angry is that aquariums are just fine for water turtles. No one says, keep your your res in a fifty gallon rubbermaid because the glass will stress them. So, are water turtles just stupid and don't know to be stressed or are they really smart and know that funny barrier is there for my protection. All animals, turtles included, will try to escape an inclosier and that doesn't mean they're stressed. My russian occasionally paces but so do turtles in sightless containers. If you have another argument about glass fine, but please stop the whole stress issue. Now let the debate begin.

What exactly is your point?

NERD
[/quote]

---

Because Aquariums make ideal homes for many turtles/tortoises (especially boxies) and the people who say they make poor homes because the glass causes stress is all wrong.

 

[Candy]

I always say keep your RES in anythig other than a aquarium, I see water turtles constantly trying to swim thru the glass, when I see them in pet stores and the like, so I say your argument is without merit myself.

I'm thinking it may well be how the glass enclosure is laid out and quite likely how large it is, as well...a roomy container w/ interesting things to do is going to be less stressful than a tiny, boring area (don't guess you've been in jail, but that's pretty much how they are...)

I've kept all my boxies, for over 30 years...that had to stay inside because they were too young to go out....in glass vivariums. I've kept Pio in a class viv. for all three years of his life. Never had a problem with them being stressed. I like to interact with my animals. When I pass by I like to look at them and let them see me. Sometimes they just sit and watch me.....I guess I am their entertainment.

Your enclosures are so natural looking that they likely convince your pets that they're at home, in the wild...nothing stressful about that!

If I was one of TerryO's animals, I'd be worried that something was going to jump out of all those bushes and GET me!!! I'd be stressed all the time!

Haha. Just kidding.

Tom you are too funny! Terry Chewy is such a cutie pie I can't stand it. I love to see those eyes.

Jeez, Jack! You don't waste any time!

That's exactly what I was thinking when I read this thread.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

I have 10 glass aquariums with various chelonia in them as we speak. I personally like them because I can see what's going on without getting up, for those in my living room and I think it's easier to regulate the heat. I think you have to be sure that you don't cause it to get too hot. But I think that's just another old wives tale that more modern times will find is useless...All of mine are 200 gallons or more and several are vivs, that means they are square with short sides. They are very popular in Great Britain and they don't feel the way most American keepers do about glass containers...

 

[Madkins007]

I think there are several aspects to this belief.

Point: Tortoises in outdoor pens will often try to force their way through any opening they can see or stick their head through and either escape or become injured- hence, we strive to create a barrier to prevent that.

Point: Some turtles and tortoises either become fixated on escaping thorough a specific corner or point in a wall, or begin to pace glass walls. These behaviors may have nothing to do with the walls being glass- they may have more to do with size and layout, boredom, etc. but a visual barrier often changes the behavior.

Point: There is a lot of dislike of aquariums for turtles and tortoises in general. I think a lot of this springs mostly from the tendency to use too small of a space for the animals rather than any real problems with properly sized and set-up glass-walled habitats.

Combine all of this, mix with a tendency to err on the side of caution (or over-react, depending on your viewpoint), and we tend to tell people to not use aquariums, and if you do, you need to do some other stuff, like the visual barriers.

I admit that I still have a hard time seeing aquarium-based habitats in an unbiased way after thinking they were bad for so long, but I am trying to change and see the habitat rather than just what the outer walls are made of.

 

[Terry Allan Hall]

I can say 100% I have not had the pleasure of ever seeing out prison system in person, not even county jail, am I missing something from not having the experience?

Lousy room service...1/2 star hotel, at best.

 

[moswen]

I haven't read every reply bc I'm on my phone and sweeping from side to side to read every line... Tiresome. But I soak my torts in clear containers, mostly old spring mix boxes, but I do that bc it makes them more active during their soak and a more active tort usually ends in a nice little pile of excrement... That much less that I don't have to clean out of their pen! I think mostly the problems with glass vivs boil down to when an inexperienced or inattentive tort owner gets the temps too high, with the high glass walls it's harder for heat to escape. I don't really know though, just my thoughts.

---

ALTHOUGH, in "never been kissed" with drew barrymore I seem to remember her box turtle housed in glass and on rabbit pellets trying pretty furiously to escape his place of non-refuge

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

I have 10 glass aquariums with various chelonia in them as we speak. I personally like them because I can see what's going on without getting up, for those in my living room and I think it's easier to regulate the heat. I think you have to be sure that you don't cause it to get too hot. But I think that's just another old wives tale that more modern times will find is useless...All of mine are 200 gallons or more and several are vivs, that means they are square with short sides. They are very popular in Great Britain and they don't feel the way most American keepers do about glass containers...

I concur, I kept my tortoise in a viv until she was about 4 years old, never had any problems at all, never once had a vet visit. I think initially because the reptile centre we got her from advised us this was what we should do. The viv's are easier to keep humid and as previously stated you can sit and watch your tortoise for as long as you want, providing they're not hiding out that is! I think if you're informed and you know how to care for your tortoise then there isn't a problem, however I have witnessed a friend who kept her tortoise in the same viv that it came in as a baby and the poor thing could hardly turn around in it, apparently she was adamant that a tortoise would only grow as big as its enclosure warranted.

 

[Tom]

I think if you're informed and you know how to care for your tortoise then there isn't a problem, however I have witnessed a friend who kept her tortoise in the same viv that it came in as a baby and the poor thing could hardly turn around in it, apparently she was adamant that a tortoise would only grow as big as its enclosure warranted.

.

I hear this all the time about a variety of animals. Its false in every case. I always ask the person who believes this, "what does the size of the box have to do with how big the animal is genetically programed to get?" Does a smaller box somehow change an animals DNA? How did your friends situation turn out? Did it look like this?

 

[Yourlocalpoet]

Ha ha, what a beast! I believe she gave him to the local tortoise sanctuary, which i must admit was a huge relief for me! I used to lose sleep over that little guy in that fish tank! It was a Horsefield so it wasn't even that big, so you can imagine how small the tank was!

 

[Madkins007]

Actually, the carrying capacity of the environment has a LOT to do with genetic programming, and there are other factors involved as well. Animals that live in sub-optimal habitats often grow up smaller than their better-support cousins. Key deer, dwarf animal populations, etc. Even amongst tortoises- most of them are smaller than the fossil record and many experts feel it is due to a less supportive environment.

But, but that is not quite what you meant, is it?

The whole 'grow to the tank size' thing is really annoying. If the animal DOES turn out stunted, they say 'See, it works!' instead of the more proper 'Oh my gosh, look at how distorted the poor thing is!'