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SailingMystic

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cmosuna said:
In an odd turn of events one of our beloved tortoises was just dropped back into our yard. And by dropped I mean thrown over the fence and fled before I saw them. She wasn't there 2 minutes earlier so I must have missed them by seconds. She is uninjured and back in her enclosure. To which I am currently adding motion lighting.

So it gets even crazier, turns out it was a bunch of 10 year old boys with obvious parental problems. It was a game to them they just started handing them out to people and then eventually threw several of them in the dumpster! We recovered most of them but are still missing about 2 or 3 Sliders. The sickening part was the mother who in Spanish tells another mother (in front of the police) that they are just stupid turtles and that's what kids do, its only because they are stupid white people. She then told us her son came home with them and she threw them in the garbage! WTH is wrong with people!

Omg- I'm sick!! These are the people that need to take a test before they are allowed to reproduce!! I'm sorry but this needs to be addressed. Did you find the two in the dumpster?! Need local forum members to help you dive through?? Sick.
 

cmosuna

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SailingMystic said:
cmosuna said:
In an odd turn of events one of our beloved tortoises was just dropped back into our yard. And by dropped I mean thrown over the fence and fled before I saw them. She wasn't there 2 minutes earlier so I must have missed them by seconds. She is uninjured and back in her enclosure. To which I am currently adding motion lighting.

So it gets even crazier, turns out it was a bunch of 10 year old boys with obvious parental problems. It was a game to them they just started handing them out to people and then eventually threw several of them in the dumpster! We recovered most of them but are still missing about 2 or 3 Sliders. The sickening part was the mother who in Spanish tells another mother (in front of the police) that they are just stupid turtles and that's what kids do, its only because they are stupid white people. She then told us her son came home with them and she threw them in the garbage! WTH is wrong with people!

Omg- I'm sick!! These are the people that need to take a test before they are allowed to reproduce!! I'm sorry but this needs to be addressed. Did you find the two in the dumpster?! Need local forum members to help you dive through?? Sick.

We have dug and looked, we have since recovered all but one. Sadly she is a great big old female that we are very fond of. Hopefully she will turn up soon =/ Two more of them turned up for us yesterday, everyone in the condos behind us is aware and on the lookout.
 

Neal

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It could have been a lot worse, I am glad you were able to recover almost all of your tortoises and turtles.

If you want to sleep well at night, I'd recommend a security camera system. Costco sells some nice systems for a reasonable price. You could even get some fake ones and post them conspicuously and post signs on your property.

In all honesty, if someone wants to break into a house or backyard and steal stuff...there's not much one could do to stop them. It's all about deterring people.
 

cmosuna

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Neal said:
It could have been a lot worse, I am glad you were able to recover almost all of your tortoises and turtles.

If you want to sleep well at night, I'd recommend a security camera system. Costco sells some nice systems for a reasonable price. You could even get some fake ones and post them conspicuously and post signs on your property.

In all honesty, if someone wants to break into a house or backyard and steal stuff...there's not much one could do to stop them. It's all about deterring people.

Yeah we have started to add motion lighting and such. We are starting fundraising to help us not only reinforce our security but also to increase the ways we can get education out beyond our Face Book page and talks we do. I would like to add cameras that also double as live streaming webcams. Maybe raise some funds to build more pens, increase pond size etc so we can take in more animals in need. Once we have raised our wall and added some form of painful but legal deterant. If anyone would like to help the Osuna Turtle and Tortoise House in these efforts you can donate here http://fnd.us/c/cIjg5
 

Tom

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Great ideas from Neal. A good friend owned a whole herd of leopards, a Galapagos and a few odds and ends and he set up a camera system like Neal mentioned. He could monitor his tortoises and his yard from any computer with internet access. I would go to his place to care for his torts in his absence and he would call me to chit chat while I was with his torts. If an unfamiliar car pulled into the driveway, or the front of the house, he knew it and had the license number. He had one camera that could pan and zoom. You could go online and count Mazuri pieces from across the yard... The system came with a hard drive that would record 30 days of activity and it was easy to set up.

Anyhow, I just can't get over the cops idiocy on this one. So let me get this straight... If I come to Stanton, steal your car, drive it around for a few days, and then return it before I get caught with it, then I am NOT guilty of committing any crimes???!!! Man, I'll never pay for another rental car again. If its perfectly legal and not a crime to steal things, use and abuse them, and then return them after a few days... wow does that open a lot of new doors for me. I can "borrow" a backhoe and some earth moving equipment from nearby construction sites and get some really cool tortoise enclosure work done.

Hey Chad, would you ask your local incompetent boobs... uhhhh I mean "law enforcement" officers, if these rules only apply at their station, or is this a statewide, or national, policy. I'd hate to find out the hard way that stealing/returning actually WAS a crime somewhere else in the state or country and actually have law enforcement do their job and charge me with an actual crime. I'll bet none of these officers involved would hesitate to write you a speeding ticket for going five miles an hour over the posted limit. Next time I get pulled over I will simply tell them, "Oh yes, I DID make an illegal U-turn back there, but NOW I'm driving straight in my lane and so what I did back there doesn't count any more..."

I'm sorry man... I'm sorry this happened to you and I can't imagine how upsetting this must be. I am FURIOUS on your behalf. I think I will call the Stanton PD and just chew on them for a bit. This is incomprehensible!
 

lisalove

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Love the 'rant' Tom!!!;)
I'm pretty sure there are consequences even if you attempt a crime-apparently Stanton is exempt from the rest of California...let's all move there!!!
I think it comes down to being a squeaky wheel. If this happened to me, I would be one of the loudest 'wheels' Stanton PD has heard in a very long time!!!
I think that stupid family would get more than an earful from me too!

Really stinks that things like this happen.
 

SailingMystic

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cmosuna said:
We have dug and looked, we have since recovered all but one. Sadly she is a great big old female that we are very fond of. Hopefully she will turn up soon =/ Two more of them turned up for us yesterday, everyone in the condos behind us is aware and on the lookout.

Where was she last? So sorry. Soooo sad. I wish I could do something. I worry too- we finally put a tall fence up-- ESP since we have a pond (a child could fall in).
 

cmosuna

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No it's not that you can commit crime, it's their age. Because they were all like 10 they wouldn't do a thing, if they would have been adults I could have pressed charges. But because of their age the DA won't consider it. It's not a Stanton problem it's a CA and many other states problems. If you are a kid you can do whatever you want pretty much. If there would have been sever property damage I could have take then parents to civil court to get money but that's the extent of it.
 

Snapper925

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Barbed wire!!! Then you could follow the blood trail and check with hospitals ;)
 

JoesMum

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SailingMystic said:
What would they do there? Curious.. Interested. We need to be tougher.

They would undoubtedly be made 'wards of court' and taken into care while it went to court. After that, it depends. They could end up in a young offenders institute. At that age, with no previous offences, it's more likely it would be a possible long term care order and a lot of social services involvement to try and set them back on the right path.

These kids are usually school refusers and every effort would be made to try and get them back into meaningful education.
 

IRISHD15

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Hi cmosuna,
sorry to hear about your troubles :(
But as some of the other guys hav mentioned, Security camera's are an EXCELLENT deterrent to would be intruders and these days can be setup very cheap...
If cashflow is an issue then fake cams are just as effective.... less than $20 on ebay will get you 2 dummies that will even start panning when motion is detected.

Hope things work out for u !!
 

Neltharion

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A lot of people are surprised by the unresponsiveness by law enforcement to this situation. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all. Stanton is in Orange County. Orange County has already made huge budget cuts and still has a deficit. They also went bankrupt some 18 years ago. Sherriff deputies and other offices like the District Attorney have already faced huge cuts. Its an unfortunate result of the poor economy that, "We're not going to do anything about a couple of kids that took a few turtles."

I work for California's Department of Justice. I investigate these types of claims where local law enforcement acted inappropriately or failed to act.

One response that I got investigating a claim that shoplifters weren't prosecuted, and its very typical of the types of responses we get in these types of cases, "We can spend our time and resources going after killers, rapists, child molesters, armed robbers, drunk drivers and the like. Or we can take people and money away from that to prosecute those kids that ran out of the gas station with $12 worth of sandwiches and bottles of soda that they didn't pay for. What would you have us do?" My supervisor had me close this complaint with no further action taken.
 

ErikaO

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Neltharion said:
A lot of people are surprised by the unresponsiveness by law enforcement to this situation. Unfortunately, I'm not surprised at all. Stanton is in Orange County. Orange County has already made huge budget cuts and still has a deficit. They also went bankrupt some 18 years ago. Sherriff deputies and other offices like the District Attorney have already faced huge cuts. Its an unfortunate result of the poor economy that, "We're not going to do anything about a couple of kids that took a few turtles."

I work for California's Department of Justice. I investigate these types of claims where local law enforcement acted inappropriately or failed to act.

One response that I got investigating a claim that shoplifters weren't prosecuted, and its very typical of the types of responses we get in these types of cases, "We can spend our time and resources going after killers, rapists, child molesters, armed robbers, drunk drivers and the like. Or we can take people and money away from that to prosecute those kids that ran out of the gas station with $12 worth of sandwiches and bottles of soda that they didn't pay for. What would you have us do?" My supervisor had me close this complaint with no further action taken.

Wow, don't they understand that to allow thes young trouble-making, non-parented children to get away with these "lesser" crimes, those same children can become our robbers, muderers, and child molesters!!??! Don't we teach our children to stay away from the "lesser" drugs because they only lead them to the harsher ones?!! Sheeeesh! We better wake up and start holding people (adults and children) accountable for their actions or we're in for a whole lot of hurt!!
 

Madkins007

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FYI about booby traps- signs won't make it legal, or if it does, will not help in court. Putting up the trap means you intentionally planned to hurt someone- premeditated and in cold blood. Adding the sign means the whole thing was done intentionally- no possibility of an accident.

All they have to do in court is claim they did not see the sign- it was obscured, faded, fallen, they don't read English, they misunderstood what it meant, etc.

If they can also find a way to make it seem that they were there for some innocent reason, the jury will award them everything you've ever dreamed of.

It is kind of like the classic 'beware of dog' sign Catch 22- if you don't put up a sign, and someone is bitten, you can claim you had no idea this would happen. Putting up a sign means you KNOW your dog is dangerous, so if it hurts someone, it is YOUR liability, period, no matter why the other person was on your land.


Sigh. This sort of thing ticks me off royally, but sometimes, the smart path is to count your blessings, cut your losses, prevent a recurrence and move on with your life. It sucks, but we are never promised happiness or fairness in this life.
 

dmmj

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What about a warning sign that says " WARNING dog shoots trespassers"?
 

lynnedit

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Lol!

I know people put in electric wired fences out on ranches, and in yards to keep predators out. That does not seem quite the same as a trap, but who knows?
 

SailingMystic

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JoesMum said:
They would undoubtedly be made 'wards of court' and taken into care while it went to court. After that, it depends. They could end up in a young offenders institute. At that age, with no previous offences, it's more likely it would be a possible long term care order and a lot of social services involvement to try and set them back on the right path.

These kids are usually school refusers and every effort would be made to try and get them back into meaningful education.

See we need this system in the US for each state. Instead we rely on irresponsible parents to pick up the ball. Mine were super strict - I don't see that anymore here. Something's gonna give...
 

Utah Lynn

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cmosuna said:
Tom said:
VERY good info EJ.

Chad, if the cops are saying that these kids are too young to be charged, then obviously the responsibility falls upon the parents. According to the definition provided by EJ, grand theft occurred and SOMEONE must be charged with that crime.

If you don't take action, these kids will do this again and worse... Theses kids and especially the parents of these kids MUST be made to realize there are consequences for these actions. Watch how quickly these parents start controlling their kids when fines and legal action are levied against them... If they get away Scott free, I worry about the future.

It all sounds so great and full of justice, but it's not going to happen. We have spoken to multiple police, humane societies, etc the past couple of days and the sad sad truth there is nothing they will do. What we were told are laws that are in place protect children that young do not allow us to press charges on them on pretty much anything less than murder. I also discussed with them the mother admitting to throwing them in the trash and they also informed me there was still nothing that can or will do without having seen them in the act. Since all of the expensive torts were returned the monetary value of what is still outstanding is something in the range of $50. Which leaves the trespassing charge which we cannot hold the parents accountable for. They told me the best I could do is civaly sue them to get the menatary value back. Our Justice System is effed up.

Maybe ICE would be interested in these people?
 
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