HELP! Need Input on Desert Tortoise Hatchling Enclosure

[novicetortoise]

Hi guys, I am new here. I have done tons of research on this forum but I still have some questions to make sure I’m doing everything correctly. I am going to explain how I plan on setting up its enclosure until it gets big/old enough to have it outside.
The desert tortoise I have is a hatchling, probably no more than a few weeks old. I would like everyone’s opinion on how I should do its enclosure. Here’s my ideas so far:
For substrate, I’m going to use a mix of natural dirt from outside, small rocks, and coco coir. Eventually I am going to purchase some orchid bark as well to mix in.
For lighting, I am using a 75W basking bulb and a 10.0 UVB tube light that will be mounted inside of the enclosure. At night, my house gets to be around 70°, so I don’t think I will need a CHE. The enclosure is going to be a glass terrarium with a mesh lid.
I am going to provide the tortoise with 2 terracotta dishes with water and one smaller dish for its food. I’m going to bury each dish in the substrate so the tortoise doesn’t flop over trying to climb out of them.
For the UVB side, I am going to take a black container and cut one hole big enough for the tortoise to go into to hide and burrow. I will spray the enclosure each day to maintain humidity and especially keep the hiding area humid.
For the basking side, I have open ended log hides that I’m going to bury in the substrate so the tortoise doesn’t flop over off of them and has an easy time getting around.
Is there anything I’m missing, or any recommendations? I’m also ordering a thermometer hygrometer to monitor temps and humidity.
For a hatchling, how much ambient humidity should be inside of the enclosure? That is one thing I’m curious about. I will also be soaking it daily for 20-30minutes to ensure it gets hydrated. Also, how often should I empty/clean out the water dishes since it will crawl through and get substrate in them?
I am feeding it a mixture of different fresh greens, as well as the zoomed grassland tortoise pellets that I hydrate in water until it breaks apart and gets mushy. Should I sprinkle the greens with calcium powder everyday or only a few times a week?
Also, how much should a hatchling be consuming each day food wise? How often does a hatchling pee/poo? Any advice or general rule of thumbs would be super appreciated. Thank you guys!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I notice you have two of the same threads, maybe a mod like @wellington or @Yvonne G can combine them or delete one of them. Also Yvonne can advice you on desert tortoises. What state are you from? There are a lot of tight laws around desert tortoises.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello!
As far as I can tell, your hatchling will get a good start. Just a few points:
1. I would be very careful with small rocks in the substrate - if any of them fits his mouth, it can be swallowed and cause blockage.
2. With a meshed lid it will be hard to maintain humidity in the enclosure. You may use a portable greenhouse top to cover whole tank or wrap/cover lids with tin foil. You will need ambient humidity of 50-70% across the enclosure and close to 100% inside the cold side hide.
3. Instead of spraying substrate more effective would be to pour a cup or two of water in the corners to keep lower layers damp once a week or two.
4. Basking lamp and UVB lamp should be placed close to each other (heat and UVB work together).
5. Water dishes should be cleaned at least daily or as soon as poop is spotted. Substrate in water and food dishes is a neverending fight, so try to place them out of "high-traffic" areas.
6. Calcium should be added 1-2 times a week, usually not on the days when you feed pellets.
7. Feed your tortoise daily, as much as it wants to eat - leave the food through the day and adjust amount next day so only a few pieces left.
8. They usually poo once a day. And often during soaks.

What size is the glass tank? And what distance between UVB lamp and substrate?

I'm sure you have seen this thread before, but double-check your plans against recommendations there: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (and also, temperate species care sheet at the bottom of that thread).

 

[wellington]

I would try to get the humidity 80% all over. No mesh top, a closed chamber needed
Do not use a mercury, halogen or spot bulb for basking. An incandescent FLOOD bulb should be used to reach 95-100.
Putting flat rocks or slate around the water dish will help get the substrate off the tort before it enters the water.

 

[novicetortoise]

I notice you have two of the same threads, maybe a mod like @wellington or @Yvonne G can combine them or delete one of them. Also Yvonne can advice you on desert tortoises. What state are you from? There are a lot of tight laws around desert tortoises.

I am from Nevada. I am calling the wildlife preservation to have a discussion with them but the tortoise was found in someone’s backyard in a high traffic neighborhood, it was removed due to other predators targeting it. I just want to get it set up in something safe and good for its development until I can find it a better home or even take on the responsibility myself, it seems that rehoming in this state is not guaranteed and it’s not recommended to put it back in the wild. If you have good resources, please let me know and that would be helpful. I hear a lot of conflicting info online!

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I think @zovick has some resources, but I don't know if they are just Florida related.

 

[Tom]

Hi guys, I am new here. I have done tons of research on this forum but I still have some questions to make sure I’m doing everything correctly. I am going to explain how I plan on setting up its enclosure until it gets big/old enough to have it outside.
The desert tortoise I have is a hatchling, probably no more than a few weeks old. I would like everyone’s opinion on how I should do its enclosure. Here’s my ideas so far:
For substrate, I’m going to use a mix of natural dirt from outside, small rocks, and coco coir. Eventually I am going to purchase some orchid bark as well to mix in.
For lighting, I am using a 75W basking bulb and a 10.0 UVB tube light that will be mounted inside of the enclosure. At night, my house gets to be around 70°, so I don’t think I will need a CHE. The enclosure is going to be a glass terrarium with a mesh lid.
I am going to provide the tortoise with 2 terracotta dishes with water and one smaller dish for its food. I’m going to bury each dish in the substrate so the tortoise doesn’t flop over trying to climb out of them.
For the UVB side, I am going to take a black container and cut one hole big enough for the tortoise to go into to hide and burrow. I will spray the enclosure each day to maintain humidity and especially keep the hiding area humid.
For the basking side, I have open ended log hides that I’m going to bury in the substrate so the tortoise doesn’t flop over off of them and has an easy time getting around.
Is there anything I’m missing, or any recommendations? I’m also ordering a thermometer hygrometer to monitor temps and humidity.
For a hatchling, how much ambient humidity should be inside of the enclosure? That is one thing I’m curious about. I will also be soaking it daily for 20-30minutes to ensure it gets hydrated. Also, how often should I empty/clean out the water dishes since it will crawl through and get substrate in them?
I am feeding it a mixture of different fresh greens, as well as the zoomed grassland tortoise pellets that I hydrate in water until it breaks apart and gets mushy. Should I sprinkle the greens with calcium powder everyday or only a few times a week?
Also, how much should a hatchling be consuming each day food wise? How often does a hatchling pee/poo? Any advice or general rule of thumbs would be super appreciated. Thank you guys!

Hello and welcome. DTs are an awesome and rewarding species. Lucky find!

I'll answer your questions one at a time:
1. For substrate, just use orchid bark or coco coir. There is no reason to mix substrates. Keep either of those damp. Spraying the surface does very little and mainly serves to cool the enclosure through rapid evaporation. Dump water into the substrate to maintain dampness. How much water to dump and how often varies tremendously. You have to go by feel.
2. Sounds like you are good on heat and UV. I would add some LED for ambient lighting to make it more bright in there during the day. I agree that you don't need night heat at 70 degrees.
3. Hides, bowls and thermometers all sound great.
4. Clean water dishes as needed, but at least daily.
5. Does the baby eat the ZooMed food? I usual have to mix small amounts of that with greens. Look for natural foods like weeds, soft freshly sprouted grasses, mulberry, grape and hibiscus leaves, and spineless opuntia pads.
6. A small amount of calcium twice a week is sufficient.
7. They should be fed as much as they will eat daily.
8. Most will poop and pee in the soak water daily.

Questions are welcome! It looks like you already found the correct care sheet, but there is more info here:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[novicetortoise]

Hello and welcome. DTs are an awesome and rewarding species. Lucky find!

I'll answer your questions one at a time:
1. For substrate, just use orchid bark or coco coir. There is no reason to mix substrates. Keep either of those damp. Spraying the surface does very little and mainly serves to cool the enclosure through rapid evaporation. Dump water into the substrate to maintain dampness. How much water to dump and how often varies tremendously. You have to go by feel.
2. Sounds like you are good on heat and UV. I would add some LED for ambient lighting to make it more bright in there during the day. I agree that you don't need night heat at 70 degrees.
3. Hides, bowls and thermometers all sound great.
4. Clean water dishes as needed, but at least daily.
5. Does the baby eat the ZooMed food? I usual have to mix small amounts of that with greens. Look for natural foods like weeds, soft freshly sprouted grasses, mulberry, grape and hibiscus leaves, and spineless opuntia pads.
6. A small amount of calcium twice a week is sufficient.
7. They should be fed as much as they will eat daily.
8. Most will poop and pee in the soak water daily.

Questions are welcome! It looks like you already found the correct care sheet, but there is more info here:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thank you! You are awesome man. I got a lot of info from your thread that I found someone recommend on Reddit. There is a lot of natural light where the enclosure will be placed so it will be a bright area. The hatchling is quite hungry! It eats the tortoise food and greens. It still has some dried yellow stuff on its belly, I think egg sac maybe?

 

[Tom]

Thank you! You are awesome man. I got a lot of info from your thread that I found someone recommend on Reddit. There is a lot of natural light where the enclosure will be placed so it will be a bright area. The hatchling is quite hungry! It eats the tortoise food and greens. It still has some dried yellow stuff on its belly, I think egg sac maybe?

It sounds like you are all on the right track, but just some FYI for you about this species to help going forward:
1. The top killers of this species are dehydration and dogs. People think they need dry desiccating conditions because they are a desert species. Babies in the wild don't walk around above ground in the temperature extremes. They hide in plants and root balls, or in tunnels and burrows that they find or make. Daily soaks and humid living conditions for babies, tapering down to twice a week soaks for adults, will help prevent the usual dehydration complications. So many DTs die of bladder stones. They are prone to it, and simple hydration helps them pass whatever urates they may form, yet the people who advise on DT care almost universally tell people to do things that will keep them perpetually dehydrated, as if water is some sort of tortoise poison. Its crazy. And babies do NOT do better outside full time. I have done multiple experiments with multiple clutchmates of several species to test this theory, and it is the same every time. Babies do significantly better when kept in stable indoor conditions most of the time. Outdoors full time is great for larger juveniles and adults, but not for babies.
2. Dogs. Most people seem to like to just turn this species loose in the yard, and sooner or later, the family dog will chew them up. Dogs will go years co-existing and showing no interest in the tortoise, and then one day... Please don't let this happen to you. Never let a dog have access to the tortoise area. Never think your dog, or a family member's dog won't do this. ALL dogs have the potential to do this.

Yes, the dried up stuff is most probably dried up yolk sac. Soak this baby for 30-40 minutes every day until it passes 100 grams. Then you can start skipping a day now and then. I like to always soak them after a sunning session in our dry climates. Keep the soak water warm the entire time.

I love this species, and most people all over the world never get to work with them. The care info for them is worse than any other species out there and I have learned all that I am telling you the hard way over decades of caring for them. You have a wonderful opportunity with that little hatchling in your hands and I want to help you make the most of it. Please feel free to ask a million questions.

 

[zovick]

I think @zovick has some resources, but I don't know if they are just Florida related.

@novicetortoise
Here is some info from the NV Dept. of Wildlife which may be helpful in deciding what to do with your found tortoise. There are two phone numbers listed as contacts to call regarding found tortoises:

Living With Desert Tortoises- Nevada Wildlife

Nevada is filled with wildlife that is as varied and unique as our state. Learn how to live responsibly with Nevada’s desert tortoises.

www.ndow.org

 

[novicetortoise]

@novicetortoise
Here is some info from the NV Dept. of Wildlife which may be helpful in deciding what to do with your found tortoise. There are two phone numbers listed as contacts to call regarding found tortoises:

Living With Desert Tortoises- Nevada Wildlife

Nevada is filled with wildlife that is as varied and unique as our state. Learn how to live responsibly with Nevada’s desert tortoises.

www.ndow.org

Thank you so much, there was so many numbers I wasn’t sure who to call. Luckily I had a lot of leftover enclosure pieces from owning reptiles, I just had to get the correct lamps, substrate and dishes for the little guy. My main focus before contacting them was getting the DT set up in a proper enclosure, that way if they want to take it in, they can. If they want to take it in but can’t for a while, at least it will have a good setup for the time being. If they allow me to register to become it’s custodian, I will happily do so because I don’t want it to die in the wild. I will let you know what happens when I call them!! 😊

 

[novicetortoise]

It sounds like you are all on the right track, but just some FYI for you about this species to help going forward:
1. The top killers of this species are dehydration and dogs. People think they need dry desiccating conditions because they are a desert species. Babies in the wild don't walk around above ground in the temperature extremes. They hide in plants and root balls, or in tunnels and burrows that they find or make. Daily soaks and humid living conditions for babies, tapering down to twice a week soaks for adults, will help prevent the usual dehydration complications. So many DTs die of bladder stones. They are prone to it, and simple hydration helps them pass whatever urates they may form, yet the people who advise on DT care almost universally tell people to do things that will keep them perpetually dehydrated, as if water is some sort of tortoise poison. Its crazy. And babies do NOT do better outside full time. I have done multiple experiments with multiple clutchmates of several species to test this theory, and it is the same every time. Babies do significantly better when kept in stable indoor conditions most of the time. Outdoors full time is great for larger juveniles and adults, but not for babies.
2. Dogs. Most people seem to like to just turn this species loose in the yard, and sooner or later, the family dog will chew them up. Dogs will go years co-existing and showing no interest in the tortoise, and then one day... Please don't let this happen to you. Never let a dog have access to the tortoise area. Never think your dog, or a family member's dog won't do this. ALL dogs have the potential to do this.

Yes, the dried up stuff is most probably dried up yolk sac. Soak this baby for 30-40 minutes every day until it passes 100 grams. Then you can start skipping a day now and then. I like to always soak them after a sunning session in our dry climates. Keep the soak water warm the entire time.

I love this species, and most people all over the world never get to work with them. The care info for them is worse than any other species out there and I have learned all that I am telling you the hard way over decades of caring for them. You have a wonderful opportunity with that little hatchling in your hands and I want to help you make the most of it. Please feel free to ask a million questions.

This info is super helpful. Seriously. I do not have dogs, but I have cats. As much as I love my cats, they’re unpredictable and can be feisty so the little guy will not be going anywhere near them. It is in a closed off room that no other animals have access to.
At what stage would you say they reach “juvenile”, is it a matter of weight, length, or time (years)? I’m not sure how old the DT is but it appears to be a very small hatchling so I’m thinking maybe a few weeks?
I do have lots of questions, but I will wait just because I don’t know if I can keep it. This DT fell in my hands from people who didn’t know what kind of tortoise it was, who found it in their backyard in a busy neighborhood and removed it because they were worried that their dog would harm it. It was not in a burrow or even hiding, just laying there out in the open. They immediately talked to me about it because they knew I had a background with reptiles and the sorts. I didn’t know what kind of tortoise it was either until I did some research and found out what it was.
Immediately my only focus was getting it into a proper enclosure ASAP, because I don’t know how the process with calling NV Dept of Wildlife goes. I plan on calling them within the next couple of days to figure out a game plan of what to do. I don’t know their protocols with hatchlings specifically, so I don’t know if they will want to release it back into the wild. And if they do want to release it, how long the wait is or if I bring it to them same day. I worry for it because I don’t want it to die, I have such a big heart for animals. I already had mostly everything it needed because I have kept reptiles for many years. I also have the means to build a full backyard enclosure when it reaches that stage in life.
But, if they want to take it, obviously I can’t complain because it’s a legality matter lol. I’m wondering if they will let me register to become its custodian but I really don’t know. I will keep you updated though, thank you for being so kind❤️

 

[novicetortoise]

I would try to get the humidity 80% all over. No mesh top, a closed chamber needed
Do not use a mercury, halogen or spot bulb for basking. An incandescent FLOOD bulb should be used to reach 95-100.
Putting flat rocks or slate around the water dish will help get the substrate off the tort before it enters the water.

Thank you so much!

 

[novicetortoise]

Hello!
As far as I can tell, your hatchling will get a good start. Just a few points:
1. I would be very careful with small rocks in the substrate - if any of them fits his mouth, it can be swallowed and cause blockage.
2. With a meshed lid it will be hard to maintain humidity in the enclosure. You may use a portable greenhouse top to cover whole tank or wrap/cover lids with tin foil. You will need ambient humidity of 50-70% across the enclosure and close to 100% inside the cold side hide.
3. Instead of spraying substrate more effective would be to pour a cup or two of water in the corners to keep lower layers damp once a week or two.
4. Basking lamp and UVB lamp should be placed close to each other (heat and UVB work together).
5. Water dishes should be cleaned at least daily or as soon as poop is spotted. Substrate in water and food dishes is a neverending fight, so try to place them out of "high-traffic" areas.
6. Calcium should be added 1-2 times a week, usually not on the days when you feed pellets.
7. Feed your tortoise daily, as much as it wants to eat - leave the food through the day and adjust amount next day so only a few pieces left.
8. They usually poo once a day. And often during soaks.

What size is the glass tank? And what distance between UVB lamp and substrate?

I'm sure you have seen this thread before, but double-check your plans against recommendations there: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/info-for-new-people-please-read-this-first.202363/ (and also, temperate species care sheet at the bottom of that thread).

Thank you! I thought I replied to this but apparently I am very forgetful. I used plexiglass for the lid instead. The enclosure is a 40 gallon tank; the UVB lamp is mounted inside of the enclosure and is 12” away from substrate and 10” away from where the tortoise basks.
Please know that if I am able to keep this little guy that it will be getting an enclosure upgrade ASAP. I just needed to get it in proper conditions temporarily (soaking it, lamps, food, substrate, humidity, temps etc). I replied to Tom below about the situation of how it ended up in my hands. I have to have a discussion with NV Dept of Wildlife to see if they’re going to take it and release it back into the wild, how long that process can take, or if I can register to become its custodian and keep it. If I can do the latter, it will be getting upgraded to a MUCH larger enclosure, but for now it is being well taken care of. I will reply with an update once I call NV Dept of Wildlife (should be within a couple of days)!

 

[Tom]

This info is super helpful. Seriously. I do not have dogs, but I have cats. As much as I love my cats, they’re unpredictable and can be feisty so the little guy will not be going anywhere near them. It is in a closed off room that no other animals have access to.
At what stage would you say they reach “juvenile”, is it a matter of weight, length, or time (years)? I’m not sure how old the DT is but it appears to be a very small hatchling so I’m thinking maybe a few weeks?
I do have lots of questions, but I will wait just because I don’t know if I can keep it. This DT fell in my hands from people who didn’t know what kind of tortoise it was, who found it in their backyard in a busy neighborhood and removed it because they were worried that their dog would harm it. It was not in a burrow or even hiding, just laying there out in the open. They immediately talked to me about it because they knew I had a background with reptiles and the sorts. I didn’t know what kind of tortoise it was either until I did some research and found out what it was.
Immediately my only focus was getting it into a proper enclosure ASAP, because I don’t know how the process with calling NV Dept of Wildlife goes. I plan on calling them within the next couple of days to figure out a game plan of what to do. I don’t know their protocols with hatchlings specifically, so I don’t know if they will want to release it back into the wild. And if they do want to release it, how long the wait is or if I bring it to them same day. I worry for it because I don’t want it to die, I have such a big heart for animals. I already had mostly everything it needed because I have kept reptiles for many years. I also have the means to build a full backyard enclosure when it reaches that stage in life.
But, if they want to take it, obviously I can’t complain because it’s a legality matter lol. I’m wondering if they will let me register to become its custodian but I really don’t know. I will keep you updated though, thank you for being so kind❤️

There should be no reason why you can't keep it. They can't find enough homes for the ones they already have. Once it has been in captivity, it can never be re-leased back into the wild. That could introduce deadly pathogens to the wild ones. It is illegal to go collect one out of the wild, but if you find one in a yard that is about to be chewed up by a dog, you are allowed to rescue it.

At some point we are going to need to you got to the introduction section and share what reptiles you were into before. Many of us here keep all sorts of other reptiles and pets. I've got a bunch of different snakes and lizards, I breed three species of roaches, I'm a bee keeper, master falconer, protection dog trainer, I have 11 parrots, and my lifelong career is training all sorts of animals for film and TV. Oh yeah... and I really like tortoises too!