Help with Night Temps Sulcata Hatchling

[Babysmallz93]

Hello. I am back with more questions. I adjusted my radiant heat panel so that my closed chamber enclosure will not go above 85°f at night as per the helpful advice I have received on this forum about my night temp being too high. With this adjustment the coldest part of the enclosure can get anywhere between 77-79°. It's just the very edge of the enclosure on the far right side. Everything else is above 80° at night. My question is is that OK or do I need to figure out something to make that cold part warmer? Since I do have a closed chamber I am confused as to why the heat isn't stabilizing throughout the entire enclosure.

 

[wellington]

My guess is the radiant heat panel. Those are usually used for adults.
A closed chamber for hatchlings is usually a tube flourescent for uvb. An incandescent FLOOD bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter(s) for night heat and if added day heat is needed.
Radiant heat panels are used for adults usually with a heated pig blanket/heat pad below it. As the bulbs for basking is too harsh on an adults shell cuz they need to be under it too long for their bottom half to get warmed up.
If you have a hide for him to sleep in, then make sure he is in it every night and it's on the 80-85 degree area and the little bit of cooler spot won't be a problem.

 

[Babysmallz93]

Oh wow. I had no idea that the radiant heat panels aren't meant for hatchlings. I do have everything that you mentioned for the enclosure. When I would use the ceramic heat emitters it would only heat up directly under them, the rest of the enclosure would get cold. I do have a hide but she has only used it a few times since I have gotten her. If I put her in there at night and she moves should I just keep putting her back? Thank you so much for all of your help.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

You can use radiant heat panels with hatchlings, but you should not use "spot" heat sources with larger tortoises. RHPs have large heat dissipation area and don't produce hot spots so they are a good choice for any tortoise.

You need to place thermostat probe in the coldest area of the enclosure so thermostat keeps RHP on until desired temperature is reached. Also, you can do some rearrangements: move RHP closer to the cold end and night hide or move night hide closer to RHP.

 

[Babysmallz93]

Alrighty. I have tried to put the probe in the coldest area but I found that in order to increase that temp, the temp directly under the RHP would get all the way up to 86°. My RHP is in the middle of the enclosure. I have no idea why one side stays warm and the other does not. I will definitely try that. Thank you so much.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Alrighty. I have tried to put the probe in the coldest area but I found that in order to increase that temp, the temp directly under the RHP would get all the way up to 86°. My RHP is in the middle of the enclosure. I have no idea why one side stays warm and the other does not. I will definitely try that. Thank you so much.

Usually vents or more moist substrate can affect temperatures. Or during the day enclosure walls, substrate, slates and such heat up under basking lights and the slowly release heat. Or there is a wall, furniture and so on which provide additional insulation. Also, plants, hides and so on can block IR radiation from heat panel. It's hard to guess without photos of the enclosure.

How do you measure temperatures? Temperature gun or thermometer/sensor?

 

[wellington]

Oh wow. I had no idea that the radiant heat panels aren't meant for hatchlings. I do have everything that you mentioned for the enclosure. When I would use the ceramic heat emitters it would only heat up directly under them, the rest of the enclosure would get cold. I do have a hide but she has only used it a few times since I have gotten her. If I put her in there at night and she moves should I just keep putting her back? Thank you so much for all of your help.

It's not that they can't be used but most don't for hatchings. I'm just thinking that's likely why you might be having trouble getting the whole enclosure to the right temp.

 

[wellington]

Post a couple pics of the enclosure. That would help us more to figure out what's going on
86 isn't a bad temp for Sulcatas I just wouldn't go higher for night time.

 

[Babysmallz93]

Here are a few photos of my enclosure. Now that you mention it I do have plants on the side that gets the cold spots. Do you think that's my issue? I use both a thermometer and a temp gun.

 

[Tortellini0000]

Here are a few photos of my enclosure. Now that you mention it I do have plants on the side that gets the cold spots. Do you think that's my issue? I use both a thermometer and a temp gun.
View attachment 378443View attachment 378444View attachment 378445View attachment 378446

Love all your live plants/grasses

 

[Babysmallz93]

Love all your live plants/grasses

Awwe thank you!

 

[wellington]

Is the top a mesh or plastic with mesh inside the plastic?
If it's all just mesh, that has to be changed. It has to be a solid plastic greenhouse topper.
As I blow up the pic, it does look like it's plastic with a mesh embedded.

 

[Babysmallz93]

It's solid plastic with a mesh liner.

 

[wellington]

Nice enclosure. I think as long as his sleeping area and day temp are 80-86 and basking 95-100, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Babysmallz93]

Is the top a mesh or plastic with mesh inside the plastic?
If it's all just mesh, that has to be changed. It has to be a solid plastic greenhouse topper.
As I blow up the pic, it does look like it's plastic with a mesh embed

Nice enclosure. I think as long as his sleeping area is 80-86 and the day temps are above 80 with the 95-100 basking area, I wouldn't worry about it.

Awwe thanks. OK great. You have been a really big help. Thanks.

 

[Tom]

My guess is the radiant heat panel. Those are usually used for adults.
A closed chamber for hatchlings is usually a tube flourescent for uvb. An incandescent FLOOD bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitter(s) for night heat and if added day heat is needed.
Radiant heat panels are used for adults usually with a heated pig blanket/heat pad below it. As the bulbs for basking is too harsh on an adults shell cuz they need to be under it too long for their bottom half to get warmed up.
If you have a hide for him to sleep in, then make sure he is in it every night and it's on the 80-85 degree area and the little bit of cooler spot won't be a problem.

This is not correct. Radiant heat panels are a better way to heat a closed chamber. They spread the heat out over a greater area and the heat they generate is less desiccating. Many of us have been using them in that capacity for many years now.

They are also good for night boxes over larger tortoises for this same reason. They spread the heat out over a greater area and don't desiccate the carapace.

 

[Tom]

It's solid plastic with a mesh liner.

Ahhhhh... Now that we see the pics, I see the problem. You don't have a closed chamber. You have a wooden open topped enclosure with a tall plastic tent over it. This is better than an open topped enclosure with no tent, but one of the issues with going this way is that the plastic tents don't insulate very well compared to the 1/2 expanded PVC material the closed chambers are made of. This is why the temperature is not equalizing in the whole thing.

The tent is far too tall. You are heating a very tall air column for a tort that only occupies the bottom inch or two. All your heat is rising up to the top of the tent and not staying where you need it down where the tortoises is. This is just physics.

Here are some possible solutions to ponder:
1. Leave it as is. 77 on the side and 86 directly under the RHP is probably good enough. Where does the tortoise sleep?
2. Shorten the tent considerably.
3. Add another RHP to spread the heat out more, or add a CHE over on the cooler side, also to spread more heat out.
4. Get a proper closed chamber enclosure. They work much better and eliminate problems like this.
5. Add a small computer fan to circulate the heat around better, and blow the rising heat back down to the bottom.

Every enclosure is a custom job and has to be tweaked and adjusted to make it all perfect. You'll have to try the above suggestions to see what works best for your enclosure.

 

[Babysmallz93]

Ahhhhh... Now that we see the pics, I see the problem. You don't have a closed chamber. You have a wooden open topped enclosure with a tall plastic tent over it. This is better than an open topped enclosure with no tent, but one of the issues with going this way is that the plastic tents don't insulate very well compared to the 1/2 expanded PVC material the closed chambers are made of. This is why the temperature is not equalizing in the whole thing.

The tent is far too tall. You are heating a very tall air column for a tort that only occupies the bottom inch or two. All your heat is rising up to the top of the tent and not staying where you need it down where the tortoises is. This is just physics.

Here are some possible solutions to ponder:
1. Leave it as is. 77 on the side and 86 directly under the RHP is probably good enough. Where does the tortoise sleep?
2. Shorten the tent considerably.
3. Add another RHP to spread the heat out more, or add a CHE over on the cooler side, also to spread more heat out.
4. Get a proper closed chamber enclosure. They work much better and eliminate problems like this.
5. Add a small computer fan to circulate the heat around better, and blow the rising heat back down to the bottom.

Every enclosure is a custom job and has to be tweaked and adjusted to make it all perfect. You'll have to try the above suggestions to see what works best for your enclosure.

That makes perfect sense. I will make the adjustments above. Last night I put my tort in her hide under the RHP and set the thermostat to 83°. The temp in the hide stayed at 83°, but the temp on the cool side only dropped to 78°. Typically when I set the thermostat to 86°, the cool end does stay above 80°. Before I started putting her in her hide she would sleep a couple of inches from the outer edge of the RHP where the temp would be 84-86°. I've seen that there needs to be a temperature drop at night. How much of a temp drop does it need to be or is it different for hatchlings? Thank you so much for your helpful advice.

 

[wellington]

This is not correct. Radiant heat panels are a better way to heat a closed chamber. They spread the heat out over a greater area and the heat they generate is less desiccating. Many of us have been using them in that capacity for many years now.

They are also good for night boxes over larger tortoises for this same reason. They spread the heat out over a greater area and don't desiccate the carapace.

No, it's not incorrect. Its just a different way to heat. Ceramic heat emitters, have always been recommended for babies, not adults. If you would have read my other posts, you would have seen that I never said they couldn't be used for babies. The OP was having problems getting all areas the right temps without putting some areas much higher for night. The distance between baby and a che is too far for a che to be harsh on a baby or we wouldn't be seeing so many growing smooth as more people use the che's than the panels.

 

[wellington]

That makes perfect sense. I will make the adjustments above. Last night I put my tort in her hide under the RHP and set the thermostat to 83°. The temp in the hide stayed at 83°, but the temp on the cool side only dropped to 78°. Typically when I set the thermostat to 86°, the cool end does stay above 80°. Before I started putting her in her hide she would sleep a couple of inches from the outer edge of the RHP where the temp would be 84-86°. I've seen that there needs to be a temperature drop at night. How much of a temp drop does it need to be or is it different for hatchlings? Thank you so much for your helpful advice.

What you just described above is all good and really doesn't need changing. Putting her in her hide every night will get her to eventually do it herself which is a good thing. I wouldn't change anything. A lot of people use similar, maybe different shape, greenhouses and don't have any problems with heating or pyramiding. They do use che's more than the panels, but your temps are fine.