I'm bummed.

[mctlong]

Anyone else bummed? I think I’m getting jaded. Every time I open this forum someone else has a hopelessly sick baby tortoise. And it seems like (and this could be just me), it seems like most of these babies end up dying. Sometimes the deaths are inevitable. Some hatchlings are born weak and die. Other times deaths could have been avoided. Whatever the reason, it’s a bummer to read about a hatchling getting sick and dying and being unable to do anything about it. Most of us try to come to the rescue and offer advice and sometimes this advice is too late and sometimes this advice is ignored. Sometimes a tort gets better, but usually it doesn’t. In most cases, its obvious from the first post or two that a hatchling is not going to make it. Anyone else bummed by this?

Just venting….

 

[Neal]

I understand where you're coming from, but I think it might be the nature of a forum like this to have a lot of those types of posts. It's common for people to not think of things until something goes wrong. And when it does, the internet is most likely the first place people will go to try and get some information.

You feel bad, but the only thing you can do about it is to offer advice and possible educate.

 

[Yvonne G]

That's what prompted Kristina to write her thread about taking care of baby tortoises. If I'm remembering correctly, that's also why Tom wrote one of his threads on babies.

I'm right there with you. It really gets to me and I almost hate to open those "help me" threads

 

[wellington]

Ya, it does stink. Especially when I can't help them. Which I usually can't except the basics I have learned on this great forum. I feel so bad for the tort and owners. We all know how quickly these shelled family members steal our hearts. The best we can do is give support and advice we can give, get the word out the best we can about hydration (I think that's a lot of the bad starts) and if a breeder of tortoise, do the very best by your hatchlings, so they hopefully don't end up in a help thread.

 

[Jacqui]

Yes, it is a bummer. Also one reason I am glad I live alone. It use to bother me to have my family see me sitting infront of my laptop with tears rolling down my face. Now, it's just easier to curl up with one of my critters or go feed some tortoises something special. Then it's back to the forum.

I try to look at it as we may not be saving this tortoise, but with luck what we teach here helps either the keeper who lost their hatchling to make better choices the next time around or maybe one of those lurkers will read these threads and what they learn will keep their hatchlings from the same fate. It's one tortoise at a time. Does not often seem like we are making headway, but we are. All those "one at a timers" add up to a nice bunch of happy healthy tortoises and keepers.

---

But you know what is not a bummer? It's seeing folks in here connecting and reaching out to each other. It's seeing bonds form and teamwork getting starting. It's watching folks work together to bring lost tortoises home. It's seeing this new rescue program getting started in here to take and get tortoises in bad shape into foster homes until good permanent ones can be found. Those threads just make me feel so good and cause me to believe that all things are possible.

 

[mctlong]

I understand where you're coming from, but I think it might be the nature of a forum like this to have a lot of those types of posts. It's common for people to not think of things until something goes wrong. And when it does, the internet is most likely the first place people will go to try and get some information.

You feel bad, but the only thing you can do about it is to offer advice and possible educate.

Thanks Neal. You make alot of sense. I know the first place I go for info on most topics is the internet. Its just sad that we don't hear from alot of people until something goes wrong and its too late to help. Its even worse when there's a chance we can help but the poster ignores our advice and the hatchlings die anyways. Its discouraging.

That's what prompted Kristina to write her thread about taking care of baby tortoises. If I'm remembering correctly, that's also why Tom wrote one of his threads on babies.

I'm right there with you. It really gets to me and I almost hate to open those "help me" threads

Thanks Yvonne. Its nice to remember that posts from people like you, Tom, Kristina and the many many other experts are accessible to anyone and everyone surfing the net.

Ya, it does stink. Especially when I can't help them. Which I usually can't except the basics I have learned on this great forum. I feel so bad for the tort and owners. We all know how quickly these shelled family members steal our hearts. The best we can do is give support and advice we can give, get the word out the best we can about hydration (I think that's a lot of the bad starts) and if a breeder of tortoise, do the very best by your hatchlings, so they hopefully don't end up in a help thread.

Yes, good point - its nice to think of all those hatchlings that didn't end up in one of those threads because of this forum.

Yes, it is a bummer. Also one reason I am glad I live alone. It use to bother me to have my family see me sitting infront of my laptop with tears rolling down my face. Now, it's just easier to curl up with one of my critters or go feed some tortoises something special. Then it's back to the forum.

I try to look at it as we may not be saving this tortoise, but with luck what we teach here helps either the keeper who lost their hatchling to make better choices the next time around or maybe one of those lurkers will read these threads and what they learn will keep their hatchlings from the same fate. It's one tortoise at a time. Does not often seem like we are making headway, but we are. All those "one at a timers" add up to a nice bunch of happy healthy tortoises and keepers.

A very good way to look at it.

But you know what is not a bummer? It's seeing folks in here connecting and reaching out to each other. It's seeing bonds form and teamwork getting starting. It's watching folks work together to bring lost tortoises home. It's seeing this new rescue program getting started in here to take and get tortoises in bad shape into foster homes until good permanent ones can be found. Those threads just make me feel so good and cause me to believe that all things are possible.

Very well said Jaqui. Thank you.

Thank you everyone.

 

[jtrux]

Yea the way I look at it is, if you go to a Dodge mechanic and ask if you should buy a Cummins he'll probably tell you HELL NO because that's all he works on, nobody brings in their perfectly good running truck.

When you come on the forum most people (not me, I talk about everything lol) don't talk about things when they are going right but rather wait til something is wrong to start researching. Just my thoughts on it even though I do agree that it does get a little tiring reading all the sick post but it's just how it is.

 

[sibi]

Well, I understand how you feel and it certainly can be depressing. But, if it weren't for this forum, my babies would have died. I had no idea what I was suppose to do when I got my sulcatas. Except for what the breeder was doing herself (which was all wrong), I only knew that I loved these guys and I wanted to be the best parents for them. I started to check the internet and found this forum. I read and read until I couldn't read no more. I check other sites to see if some of the things I was learning here were right. Then I read and read some more. I watched my babies like a hawk and I was so grateful for people like Tom, Yvonne, Wellington, and a slew of others. I committed myself to helping those who were crying out for help with their torts because I knew how desperate I became when one of my torts ate so many rocks that he became compacted and sick. I learned so much from this site that I feel like an expert myself now. But I know I'm not on sulcatas, and so I continue to learn and help comfort others. I cry when I hear of some torts dying, but I'm encouraged each time I help someone here who's going through a tough time. That's how I deal with it and it works for me. I hope you know that your feelings are perfectly normal because we were not made to accept death as though nothing ever happened. Someday...soon, no animal or human will ever have to die again. That's the hope I have.

 

[Biff Malibu]

I try to look at it as we may not be saving this tortoise, but with luck what we teach here helps either the keeper who lost their hatchling to make better choices the next time around or maybe one of those lurkers will read these threads and what they learn will keep their hatchlings from the same fate. It's one tortoise at a time. Does not often seem like we are making headway, but we are. All those "one at a timers" add up to a nice bunch of happy healthy tortoises and keepers.

---

But you know what is not a bummer? It's seeing folks in here connecting and reaching out to each other. It's seeing bonds form and teamwork getting starting. It's watching folks work together to bring lost tortoises home. It's seeing this new rescue program getting started in here to take and get tortoises in bad shape into foster homes until good permanent ones can be found. Those threads just make me feel so good and cause me to believe that all things are possible.

---

^ This. Very well said.

Always sad to see, but putting the knowledge, peoples experience and medium for open communication in the world does have a positive effect for people - and ultimately torts. Its infinitely better than doing nothing.

If not for this site, I would have been taking care of my tortoise based on reptile store recommendations (shudder) or as a patchwork of what I'm able to find on the internet. The abundance of conflicting information led me here.

 

[ascott]

also remember that with reptiles there is still more not known than actually known, to me--there is no exact answer to a question, but rather a compilation of what has worked for many and what has not...so when I offer information I do so from what I know to have worked for some or myself and that never means it is a sure fire answer/help...but when dealing with reptiles it is ever changing and there is never a real "fix all" answer....also, the moment we stop trying a million different angles to aid in a request that is the time we fail out reptile buddies....

I know that the wild is the ideal place, I believe this wholeheartedly...however, I am also a realist in that there are becoming fewer and fewer wild spaces available...and in this transition from wild to captive there are so many things we still know nothing "for sure" about..so when someone has a question about an ailing tort....I LOVE when about a gazillion responses come across to that desperate person, each and every piece of advise/information/opinion and "what worked for my tort" is of the utmost importance....

I too Jacqui will find myself in tears when reading some posts...but then I call on the part of my heart that knows that weirder things have happened and if all of us offer our heart felt words and wishes, then there is a greater force that can from time to time carry the little ailing tort just long enough until its own will can take over and it survives....then there are the little Angels that were there to bring us together and rally in pure hope that the little one will make it and from that rally I always find something that is comforting and in turn lets someone let go knowing that they have done all that they possibly could....

Also, in the wild--unlike what we like to think as humans, we can not always save every baby or ailing tort--as is human life, we sometimes lose a beautiful soul that we will miss, always....

 

[l0velesly]

Yeah, it's definitely very upsetting to hear of sad, tortoise stories. It makes me more careful about mine.

 

[Watsonpartyof4]

What upsets me the most with the help me ... Is when people say they can't afford the vet. Everyone gives great advice and has helped so many newbies but let's face it sometimes you need a vet. I think people need to think long and hard, before they get a tortoise, they need to make sure they will have the money for vets. If not then don't get a tortoise!!

I am still a newbie I have only had my RF for 2 years, but no matter what if someone suggested I get him to the vet, or I thought he needed to go, I will beg borrow or steal to get him there! His life is too important to not get him medical attention when he needs it.

 

[shellibelli72]

I also am very thankful for this forum, and for the members who have been doing this for so long and offer such good advice. I have learned so much from those members and threads that my head feels like it will explode from so much info!! LOL
But seriously, I am grateful since I sometimes feel alone in my tort obsession, to see sooo many others who have the same passion for their shelled babies as I do!!!

 

[Spn785]

It is a bummer, but to me it is also useful. I don't have my first tortoise yet, and these sad storieswill help me by giving me some warning signs that something is wrong BEFORE it gets to be a serious problem, and how to help out the tortoise. The closest reptile vet to me, that I would trust, is two hours away, but I can get to the vet without too much trouble, and honestly I would walk that if I had to in order to get my shelled friend to the doc.

 

[johnreuk]

What upsets me the most with the help me ... Is when people say they can't afford the vet. Everyone gives great advice and has helped so many newbies but let's face it sometimes you need a vet. I think people need to think long and hard, before they get a tortoise, they need to make sure they will have the money for vets. If not then don't get a tortoise!!

I know I'm only new to this forum, but I just wanted to say I think that's well put, and agree with your sentiments. I totally understand that people situations can change, and quickly, so sometimes is difficult or beyond control.
But sadly I see this all too often. I think its well said that owning any animal is a privilege, and not a right.

 

[mattgrizzlybear]

It always makes me be quite and sad for a while. It is always so sad when someones toroise dies.

 

[Mjdeisher]

It is very sad, but I'm with most of the other people on here... If it wasn't for this forum I would have gotten my baby and not had any idea what to do. I was even wanting a sulcata before I started researching here, living in an apartment....NOT a good idea! This site has started to make me an experienced owner. When I got Paul, I had no idea he was injured, thought how he was acting was "normal" for a hatchling. I ended up following my instinct and got him to the vet in time. Thanks to GBtortoises I did several tweaks to my enclosure and care. Now Paul is a healthy, growing baby. He probably would not be here today if it hasn't been for the suggestions of carrot soaks, liquid vitamins, and actually making it cooler because he was getting dehydrated to quickly on top of his skin infection. It really helped me to have the support of everyone on here when I had to give this tiny 16 gram hatchling shots in his tiny wiggly leg once every day for a week and a half! All of my friends think I'm the crazy tortoise lady now, but you know what....I'm ok with that... 😍

Also, with the seasons changing, it makes sense that there are fewer post for ideas about outdoor enclosures, and growing plants.

Whenever you're feeling down, just go to the picture threads...I mean, who doesn't love seeing pics of babies and Aldabraman's "little" clan. Haha

 

[SDDTMama]

Whenever you're feeling down, just go to the picture threads...I mean, who doesn't love seeing pics of babies and Aldabraman's "little" clan. Haha

^ I totally 'second' this sentiment, and have to add that without this forum I would probably be convinced that my 2-month-old CDT is really a sulcata (which is what I was told by my coworker whom I received 'him' from), and that 'he' only needs to be soaked once every 2 or 3 weeks "because he's so small", as well as can survive solely on overripe bananas and spring mix from the local .99 Store.
I read a lot in preparation for him, and yet I still received conflicting and poor information. I have, since discovering this forum, now changed his substrate, added a 'humid hide' to his indoor enclosure that mimics a long, narrow burrow (as he'd build for himself in the wild), added an infrared heat lamp at night to keep him from hibernating, added 2 enclosure thermometers as well as purchased a 'temp gun' to ensure his enclosure temps are 'spot-on' for optimal health, and completely overhauled his diet, outdoor exposure times, and soaking regimens.
I am determined to do everything in my power to allow this little guy to thrive, healthfully and happily, in my care. I never could have accomplished this without the invaluable information that has been so graciously gifted to me by all the 'veterans' that frequent this forum and take the time, for the sheer love of Testudines, to dole out the help, support, opinions, and tips that have carried so many of us 'newbies' so far in our husbandry efforts.
For every ailing tort you read about, please consider the countless others that are thriving, solely because of the efforts of those that care so much to better the lives of captive torts around the world.

 

[Tom]

Of course its a bummer, but man, SOOOOOOO much positive comes out of this forum too. This place is pretty unique. I know of noting else like it anywhere.

The thing that really bums me out, the thing I am trying to work on the most, is that so many people get the wrong info, or no info, BEFORE they even find us. I wish I could somehow reach these people before they get a dehydrated impacted baby from someone who keeps them hot and dry on rabbit pellets right after they hatch. I want to reach the people (breeders and pet stores) that are giving these people the wrong info to begin with. It all started decades ago when people published this wrong info in books. The books were read, the info passed on, and now most of the tortoise world is still using that same incorrect care info decades after the first mistake. I wish I could go back in time and fix it.

I can say that with 100% certainty, we are reaching people and word is getting out.

 

[Eweezyfosheezy]

Of course its a bummer, but man, SOOOOOOO much positive comes out of this forum too. This place is pretty unique. I know of noting else like it anywhere.

The thing that really bums me out, the thing I am trying to work on the most, is that so many people get the wrong info, or no info, BEFORE they even find us. I wish I could somehow reach these people before they get a dehydrated impacted baby from someone who keeps them hot and dry on rabbit pellets right after they hatch. I want to reach the people (breeders and pet stores) that are giving these people the wrong info to begin with. It all started decades ago when people published this wrong info in books. The books were read, the info passed on, and now most of the tortoise world is still using that same incorrect care info decades after the first mistake. I wish I could go back in time and fix it.

I can say that with 100% certainty, we are reaching people and word is getting out.

It's going to be a long and slow process for everyone to realize their mistakes Tom but boy will it be worth it when the time comes when the new way of raising tortoises becomes the only way to raise these guys.