Indian star boom?

[ArkansasKelly]

Hey guys,

When I was in the market for an Indian Star, I had a heck of a time finding some. Now all of the sudden, they are coming out of the wood work it droves.

Any idea why?

ARKelly

 

[Tim/Robin]

Funny you posted this, we were just talking about that today. We looked and looked for female Indian Stars. Now there are quite a few nice looking small females listed.

 

[Yvonne G]

Several years ago a friend and I went to a very large reptile show in Southern California. They had hatchling Star tortoises for $500 apiece. I really wanted to buy one, but never had much luck with hatchling tortoises so I was able to tell myself "no." I have no idea what they cost now-a-days, but because they're so plentiful, I'll bet they're not that expensive anymore.

Yvonne

 

[egyptiandan]

Someone has brought in an illegal shipment of Star tortoises. I would personally stay away from any star that looks WC and all of these do.

Yvonne they have come down to $300 to $350 for mainland stars. I've seen sri lankan hatchlings for as low as $400.

Danny

 

[ArkansasKelly]

Someone has brought in an illegal shipment of Star tortoises. I would personally stay away from any star that looks WC and all of these do.

Yvonne they have come down to $300 to $350 for mainland stars. I've seen sri lankan hatchlings for as low as $400.

Danny

I have no intentions of purchasing. I reached my quota. I guess it is safe to say that when someone says something is CB there is just no way to prove it. That stinks.

Danny, what makes them look WC? Is it the smoothness of their shells?

ARKelly

 

[egyptiandan]

Once you've seen enough WC and CB animals you can tell the difference most of the time.
Yes it's the smoothness of their shells and the color. They look like they've had a "hard" life and it shows in their shells.
Also that many CB animals of that size never come on the market in those numbers all at once, another clue that they are WC.

Danny

 

[Barry]

Seems like there are a lot of different species coming in at the moment from far away lands. I wish they would catch the guys doing the smuggling.

 

[Josh]

Danny, how do you find this information? I dont mean to sound accusatory at all, I'm really just curious.

 

[egyptiandan]

No problem Josh I've been around enough to have seen it all. People getting caught doing exactly this. Reading about how the illegal trade works and how they do it. I remember the guy in california that just got arrested for doing just this a couple of years ago. He was selling the stars on kingsnake. He had pictures of 15 or 20 animals that you knew were WC. You just knew he was going to get caught or already had. It turns out he already had been caught and was being watched at th time he was listing on kingsnake. Everyone that bought from him was also arrested and had tortoises confiscated, even ones they didn't buy from this person. Just one in a long line of people doing this and it seems someone has found the pull of money to strong to resist doing something they shouldn't again.
Star tortoises are protected in India, so you can't export them legally. They are smuggled into Singapore and shipped out from there to try to make it less obvious to customs officials.

Danny

 

[-EJ]

Without actually being there I don't see how anyone can say they know the tortoises are illegal or are smuggled. I can see how a person can say that they highly suspect such a thing... but 'know'... that's a little presumptious.

In some circles it might actually be considered slanderous without proof.

As to the California story... it's kind of neat how the story gets twisted and distorted each time it is told.

 

[egyptiandan]

So how would all these Star tortoises be legal Ed. We know they are protected in India and can't be legally exported. I remember this discussion about whether even CB animals from illegally brought in adults were legal with Star tortoises a while back, Ed.
I could of course find the reported story and post it and will, but what wasn't right about what I said. Just so I don't do it again.

Danny

 

[-EJ]

I don't know, Dan, but I do know that without actual proof or being there... I don't know how you can say for sure they are illegal Dan.

It's very possible there are farms producing these Dan. This is not unlike the farms producing Radiateds Dan.

I'll get back to you on the California story Dan. I'd not heard that customers had animals confescated and charge brought against them. That doesn't mean it didn't happen but the reports I read made no mention of this Dan.

So how would all these Star tortoises be legal Ed. We know they are protected in India and can't be legally exported. I remember this discussion about whether even CB animals from illegally brought in adults were legal with Star tortoises a while back, Ed.
I could of course find the reported story and post it and will, but what wasn't right about what I said. Just so I don't do it again.

Danny

 

[ArkansasKelly]

Ouch! Can't we all just get along?

ARKelly

 

[egyptiandan]

This is getting along between me and Ed We do this from time to time and I never take it personally. Life would be boring without Ed.

Here's one article saying that customer were arrested also. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/18/local/me-tortoise18
They all plead guilty and were sentenced to probation. It lists names towards the bottom.

I haven't heard of anyone "farming" star tortoises, but it's possible. Just not likely. I also haven't heard that it was legal to import any star tortoises, WC or CB. Have you heard of anyone importing CB star tortoises, say from Europe?

So I'm just saying better safe than sorry as someone buying tortoises can get in almost as much trouble as the people getting them in. Just don't think taking the chance is worth it.

Danny

 

[-EJ]

You do realize that occured about 5 years ago. That article dredged up the whole incident which was long passed.

The people listed were not really customers as such.

That article is typical of most journalism... very light on the actual facts with a focus on sensationalism.

Yup... there are breeders in Singapore. How successful they are I really don't know.

Nope... I don't know of any being allowed into the US... doesn't mean it hasn't happened...

This is getting along between me and Ed We do this from time to time and I never take it personally. Life would be boring without Ed.

Here's one article saying that customer were arrested also. http://articles.latimes.com/2007/may/18/local/me-tortoise18
They all plead guilty and were sentenced to probation. It lists names towards the bottom.

I haven't heard of anyone "farming" star tortoises, but it's possible. Just not likely. I also haven't heard that it was legal to import any star tortoises, WC or CB. Have you heard of anyone importing CB star tortoises, say from Europe?

So I'm just saying better safe than sorry as someone buying tortoises can get in almost as much trouble as the people getting them in. Just don't think taking the chance is worth it.

Danny

 

[egyptiandan]

Here's how they get "legal" paperwork out of Malaysia. Get CITES paperwork saying they are coming out of Lebanon. Sounds good to me.
http://janakilenin.blogspot.com/2007_06_01_archive.html

Danny

 

[stells]

Ed, Dan, Dan, Ed, Ed, Dan, Dan..... sorry just couldn't resist

 

[Yvonne G]

Ed, Dan, Dan, Ed, Ed, Dan, Dan..... sorry just couldn't resist

LOL!! My thoughts exactly!!

Yvonne

 

[gummybearpoop]

One thing that is weird with this whole thing is how there are all of a sudden a lot of 4-5" stars. I mean, who gets rid of a whole bunch of mature stars at hatchling prices? 4-5" captive bred stars go for a lot more and usually if someone is looking to sell theirs, it's usually one or two individuals. It seemed liked 25-30 stars just popped up.

I thought about trying to get some, but I am sticking with just sri lankan stars.

Did anyone purchase any of those stars in this forum???

 

[spuds]

Noticed alot of them are being sold from Texas I think there was one from Indiana