Is Kilz primer ok?

LisaLew

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
55
Location (City and/or State)
DFW Texas
I have read on here that Kilz is safe. So I bought Kilz Original Primer Spray for the inside of Fallon’s new wood enclosure. I notice it’s oil based.

Is this ok to spray inside, let air out a few days and then add mulch? I want to ensure I don’t expose her to toxins.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
64,286
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
I have read on here that Kilz is safe. So I bought Kilz Original Primer Spray for the inside of Fallon’s new wood enclosure. I notice it’s oil based.

Is this ok to spray inside, let air out a few days and then add mulch? I want to ensure I don’t expose her to toxins.
It won't work. The enclosure will rot in a year. I've tried. I primed with Killz2 and then did three heavy coats of DryLok. The bottom literally fell out of it the next year and my tortoises were at the edge of the hole looking down at the floor.

Can't use wood for humid closed chamber. There is nothing practical that works to coat it with. You can get Pond Shield, but good luck sorting out those directions. The stuff works, but its expensive and very tricky to use. You can buy non-toxic boat primer and paint, but that will cost more than $250.

Make the enclosure out of expanded PVC. Its totally inert and non-toxic and its impervious to water and moisture.
 

LisaLew

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
55
Location (City and/or State)
DFW Texas
My experience with sealing wood to use as a humid/wet enclosure has been equally unsuccessful
Thank you. Happy Birthday! 🎉
I wonder if it’s ok to use the wood enclosure (and pre-spray with the oil based primer prior) for a few months or so while I sort out another one.
 

LisaLew

Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2020
Messages
55
Location (City and/or State)
DFW Texas
It won't work. The enclosure will rot in a year. I've tried. I primed with Killz2 and then did three heavy coats of DryLok. The bottom literally fell out of it the next year and my tortoises were at the edge of the hole looking down at the floor.

Can't use wood for humid closed chamber. There is nothing practical that works to coat it with. You can get Pond Shield, but good luck sorting out those directions. The stuff works, but its expensive and very tricky to use. You can buy non-toxic boat primer and paint, but that will cost more than $250.

Make the enclosure out of expanded PVC. Its totally inert and non-toxic and its impervious to water and moisture.
Yes I was wondering about that. I am not very DIY but I’ll try to sort that out, maybe get a handyman. I have this really large one I may use through the winter then work on the PVC. As I mentioned to Zeropilot, I wonder if it’s harmful to use the Kilz oil based primer or if I should skip it all together? Thank you for responding!
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
64,286
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Yes I was wondering about that. I am not very DIY but I’ll try to sort that out, maybe get a handyman. I have this really large one I may use through the winter then work on the PVC. As I mentioned to Zeropilot, I wonder if it’s harmful to use the Kilz oil based primer or if I should skip it all together? Thank you for responding!
I've never used Kilz, but I have used the Killz2 formula several times and it is safe once it is fully cured.
 

ZEROPILOT

REDFOOT WRANGLER
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jul 16, 2014
Messages
29,321
Location (City and/or State)
South Eastern Florida (U.S.A.)/Rock Hill S.C.
Thank you. Happy Birthday! 🎉
I wonder if it’s ok to use the wood enclosure (and pre-spray with the oil based primer prior) for a few months or so while I sort out another one.
You can use an underlayment of pond liner material or a thick shower curtain underneath the substrate.
That would get you more use out of it.
 

wdbyrd

New Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2023
Messages
8
Location (City and/or State)
Buckeye, AZ
It won't work. The enclosure will rot in a year. I've tried. I primed with Killz2 and then did three heavy coats of DryLok. The bottom literally fell out of it the next year and my tortoises were at the edge of the hole looking down at the floor.

Can't use wood for humid closed chamber. There is nothing practical that works to coat it with. You can get Pond Shield, but good luck sorting out those directions. The stuff works, but its expensive and very tricky to use. You can buy non-toxic boat primer and paint, but that will cost more than $250.

Make the enclosure out of expanded PVC. Its totally inert and non-toxic and its impervious to water and moisture.
PVC Board is not affordable. It cost $250 a sheet. It may have been cheaper in the past but it no longer is . No one can give me a source to where it not expensive. I live in Arizona and have called and looked around and the price is crazy.
Drylok extreme seems to do well with sealing in plywood.
 

Ink

Well-Known Member
Tortoise Club
5 Year Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
2,777
Location (City and/or State)
Virginia
Maybe flex seal the inside really well??🤷
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
64,286
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
PVC Board is not affordable. It cost $250 a sheet. It may have been cheaper in the past but it no longer is . No one can give me a source to where it not expensive. I live in Arizona and have called and looked around and the price is crazy.
Drylok extreme seems to do well with sealing in plywood.
I've been able to find it near me for $113 a sheet.

I used 2 coats of primer and 3 coats of Drylok on a build a few years ago. The bottom literally dropped out from rot after 15 months of use. The PVC is worth it.
 

ryan57

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
349
Location (City and/or State)
PA
Maybe flex seal the inside really well??🤷
I use that stuff (spray AND tape, clear and black, etc.) all the time and even repaired RV roof vents that were cracked with the stuff and it doesn't leak. That said, it IS rubbery in spots and I'd hate to have one of mine eat it.

Marine grade plywood AS-IS would work for high humidity in all or most situations and does not break the bank. You can rebuild small boat transoms with that material.
 

EppsDynasty

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Messages
1,095
Location (City and/or State)
Canebrake Ca
Most primers including Kilz or Kilz do not seal out moisture. Just a tip.... the more shine in a paint the more water repellent it is. A High Gloss Oil based paint is the most water resistant paint there is. It is even better than Dry Lok.
 

ryan57

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2022
Messages
349
Location (City and/or State)
PA
Most primers including Kilz or Kilz do not seal out moisture. Just a tip.... the more shine in a paint the more water repellent it is. A High Gloss Oil based paint is the most water resistant paint there is. It is even better than Dry Lok.
Then this is really easy. Build a box with marine grade plywood and paint it with high gloss oil paint. Additionally, after painting it with a few coats, I would finish by pouring the floor of the box really thick and letting it seal everything on the bottom. Let it dry really good outside, run your lighting rig and bring it to max temperature to get rid of any fumes and you’re done.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
50,977
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
Flex seal will work. I used it in a chicken coop and it's held up really well. I think it's going on 3 years now
Marine paint should also work. It's made to withstand water.
 

EppsDynasty

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Messages
1,095
Location (City and/or State)
Canebrake Ca
To prevent rot the most important thing to remember is TRAPPED moisture. You could seal it up like Fort Knox on the inside but miss a little teeny tiny area on the outside. This would let the moisture in but not out. You also need to realize the moisture that is wicked up out of the soil. This water gets into the wood by CONSTANT contact. The best coating in the world will fail eventually when in contact with water/moisture no matter how well you apply it. Example: Silicone is now the most used roof coating material in the USA. Acrylic is the second most used, was the first until silicone advancements. The Acrylic can have up to a 15 year warranty, Silicone can be up to a 50 year warranty (most are 25 year). Within 6 months of the application of silicone it can fail simply from chemicals in the air "Dust", if not washed 3-4 times a year.
I use this as a example because you are going to have claws, toe nails, shell rubbing on whatever coating you use. It will inevitably be deteriorated simply by the animal housed in it. Lets say you do everything right (you think) but a mouse, rat, gopher, raccoon chews on a small are of the enclosure. There is your failure, thats how simple it is.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
64,286
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
Marine paint should also work. It's made to withstand water.
I did this on a big 4x8x4 foot indoor closed chamber build. More than 10 years ago it was $135 for the primer and $150 for the paint. Probably much more than that now. It worked okay and help up to the moisture, but over timer, the paint was rubbed off in all the high traffic areas along the walls and corners where the tortoise carapaces were rubbing.
 

EppsDynasty

Well-Known Member
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Oct 4, 2022
Messages
1,095
Location (City and/or State)
Canebrake Ca
I did this on a big 4x8x4 foot indoor closed chamber build. More than 10 years ago it was $135 for the primer and $150 for the paint. Probably much more than that now. It worked okay and help up to the moisture, but over timer, the paint was rubbed off in all the high traffic areas along the walls and corners where the tortoise carapaces were rubbing.
EXACTLY.....
Just for context I was and am a Professional Roof Coating Installer. I have dealt with this fight over water getting where you don't want it for over 20 years now as a professional. @Tom is right on this one....again.
 

Tom

The Dog Trainer
10 Year Member!
Platinum Tortoise Club
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
64,286
Location (City and/or State)
Southern California
EXACTLY.....
Just for context I was and am a Professional Roof Coating Installer. I have dealt with this fight over water getting where you don't want it for over 20 years now as a professional. @Tom is right on this one....again.
I appreciate your expertise on the subject. I could not find any coating at any price or at any level of difficulty working with it that holds up long term. The best I've found is Pond Shield which is a three part mix and its fairly difficult and expensive to apply and use correctly. It does hold up well to tortoise traffic, is completely inert and non-toxic once cured, and if you didn't make mistakes in the application, it remains water proof. There is a guy on YT that makes salt water aquariums out of plywood using the stuff. It does work, but its not cheap or easy.

All these problems you are pointing out, and the problems I've encountered myself, are the reason I switched to expanded PVC sheets. The sheets can be tough to find in some areas, but they sell for about $115 for a 4x8 sheet. Plywood is $30 a sheet, but then you need a couple hundred dollars of product to coat it and try to make it water proof, which is problematic and usually fails in one way or another over time.

My next night box will be painted plywood on the outside, as usual, and the inside will have expanded PVC instead of plywood. My indoor enclosures have all been 100% PVC for many years now.
 

wellington

Well-Known Member
Moderator
10 Year Member!
Tortoise Club
Joined
Sep 6, 2011
Messages
50,977
Location (City and/or State)
Chicago, Illinois, USA
EXACTLY.....
Just for context I was and am a Professional Roof Coating Installer. I have dealt with this fight over water getting where you don't want it for over 20 years now as a professional. @Tom is right on this one....again.
I'm afraid nothing is made to last forever. It's also not made for constant rubbing from a sulcata. However, it works. If it can hold up in water, it will hold up for tortoises, but yes, not forever, but longer than regular paint, stain, or sealer as it's made for water/moisture. That's what we are being asked, what will help to hold up in humidity.
If the question was what will hold up to tortoise rubbing, I would have suggested metal roofing.
The most time/years will be had from flex sealor marine paint.
 

New Posts

Top