Nebulising with f10

[EmW]

My tortoise, Nelly (who is at least 50/60 years old), is unwell with pneumonia and reduced liver function, which the vet says was likely due to the infection. The vet didn't catch the respiratory infection straight away as she actually went in for something else originally. Before all of this, she lived with my Granny who we have realised is no longer able to give Nelly the care she needs, so I have taken Nelly into my care. She is on 2 antibiotics, liver supplements, diuretics and has had a tube fitted to give her critical care feed as she was refusing to eat. We finally have her home after she was hospitalised for 2 weeks. After refusing food for just over two weeks, the morning after we brought her home she stared eating straight away, although she is only interested in cucumber but we are managing to sneak some weeds in too. At the vets they were nebulizing her with f10 and I have seen people recommend it on here so I have ordered a nebulizer and some f10 antiseptic. I just wanted to know what to dilute the f10 with. I've seen people say to use saline and when I look online it is coming up with different concentrations so I'm not sure what to use.

I really want to do everything I can to help my poor girl even though I know the prognosis isn't good with pneumonia. We want to give her body a chance to respond to the treatment and as she is interested in food and is generally alert, although sleeping a lot, it doesn't look like she has given up yet. (I've aded a photo of her eating this morning).

Any recommendations on what to dilute the f10 with and tips for nebulizing are greatly appreciated.

Em

 

[wellington]

@Yvonne G

 

[Tom]

My tortoise, Nelly (who is at least 50/60 years old), is unwell with pneumonia and reduced liver function, which the vet says was likely due to the infection. The vet didn't catch the respiratory infection straight away as she actually went in for something else originally. Before all of this, she lived with my Granny who we have realised is no longer able to give Nelly the care she needs, so I have taken Nelly into my care. She is on 2 antibiotics, liver supplements, diuretics and has had a tube fitted to give her critical care feed as she was refusing to eat. We finally have her home after she was hospitalised for 2 weeks. After refusing food for just over two weeks, the morning after we brought her home she stared eating straight away, although she is only interested in cucumber but we are managing to sneak some weeds in too. At the vets they were nebulizing her with f10 and I have seen people recommend it on here so I have ordered a nebulizer and some f10 antiseptic. I just wanted to know what to dilute the f10 with. I've seen people say to use saline and when I look online it is coming up with different concentrations so I'm not sure what to use.

I really want to do everything I can to help my poor girl even though I know the prognosis isn't good with pneumonia. We want to give her body a chance to respond to the treatment and as she is interested in food and is generally alert, although sleeping a lot, it doesn't look like she has given up yet. (I've aded a photo of her eating this morning).

Any recommendations on what to dilute the f10 with and tips for nebulizing are greatly appreciated.

Em

When it comes to meds (or disinfectants, in this case...) and how to dose and administer them, that is the realm of the exotic animal vet. What those vets lack, and where we come in, is in helping you to understand how to correctly house and care for the tortoise.

Vets treat symptoms. Few of them address and correct the CAUSE of the sickness. Tortoises don't get sick for no reason. It is almost always one or more of the environmental parameters being off. Correct the environment, usually temperatures, and the sickness cures itself, often without vet help, but sometimes vet help is needed.

Review these thread to make sure you are housing, heating, lighting, feeding correctly, and keeping this tortoise at the correct temperatures:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[EmW]

When it comes to meds (or disinfectants, in this case...) and how to dose and administer them, that is the realm of the exotic animal vet. What those vets lack, and where we come in, is in helping you to understand how to correctly house and care for the tortoise.

Vets treat symptoms. Few of them address and correct the CAUSE of the sickness. Tortoises don't get sick for no reason. It is almost always one or more of the environmental parameters being off. Correct the environment, usually temperatures, and the sickness cures itself, often without vet help, but sometimes vet help is needed.

Review these thread to make sure you are housing, heating, lighting, feeding correctly, and keeping this tortoise at the correct temperatures:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

Thanks Tom, yes I've read through your care sheets, which were amazingly helpful, to make sure her set up is correct. Thank you so much for such detailed and thorough information. Unfortunately I believe she got sick due to a drop in temperature outside and higher humidity. She was not in my care at that time.

I'm keeping an ambient temperature of 30c day and night (maybe a couple degrees less at night). The basking spot is about 32c. When she is outside she usually hides in warmer weather and at the moment she is still quite lethargic and wont move much once she is up so I haven't put the basking spot above 32C. I'm worried she just won't move if she is feeling too warm. I also have a hide which is about 26 - 28 degree. I have the 12% Arcadia UVB light, LED strip lights for ambient light, heat lamps and a basking lamp. I bought some fluorescent flood bulbs for the basking spot as you had advised but they are tricky to get in the UK and weren't warm enough so I went for an arcadia flood light. I've also gone for the orchid bark as substrate. I check the humidity regularly and add water when needed.

I called the vet up earlier and they told me 1 part f10 to 250 parts distilled water so I have ordered some distilled water now. The antibiotics she is on are Marbocyl (through the feeding tube) and Ceftazidime (injection). She is also on diuretics as she have been getting puffy due to her liver.

She definitely seems to be doing a bit better then before as her appetite is back. Only thing is she is only interested in the cucumber and romaine lettuce, having been fed mostly on that as well as fruit and tomatoes since my family got her decades ago. I have completely stopped the fruit and tomatoes and I'm managing to get her to eat dandelions, plantain and some other weeds/plants by sneaking it with the lettuce and cucumber when hand feeding her, she will not eat it otherwise. I will try some other ways to introduce the healthier selection of plants to her.

 

[Tom]

Thanks Tom, yes I've read through your care sheets, which were amazingly helpful, to make sure her set up is correct. Thank you so much for such detailed and thorough information. Unfortunately I believe she got sick due to a drop in temperature outside and higher humidity. She was not in my care at that time.

I'm keeping an ambient temperature of 30c day and night (maybe a couple degrees less at night). The basking spot is about 32c. When she is outside she usually hides in warmer weather and at the moment she is still quite lethargic and wont move much once she is up so I haven't put the basking spot above 32C. I'm worried she just won't move if she is feeling too warm. I also have a hide which is about 26 - 28 degree. I have the 12% Arcadia UVB light, LED strip lights for ambient light, heat lamps and a basking lamp. I bought some fluorescent flood bulbs for the basking spot as you had advised but they are tricky to get in the UK and weren't warm enough so I went for an arcadia flood light. I've also gone for the orchid bark as substrate. I check the humidity regularly and add water when needed.

I called the vet up earlier and they told me 1 part f10 to 250 parts distilled water so I have ordered some distilled water now. The antibiotics she is on are Marbocyl (through the feeding tube) and Ceftazidime (injection). She is also on diuretics as she have been getting puffy due to her liver.

She definitely seems to be doing a bit better then before as her appetite is back. Only thing is she is only interested in the cucumber and romaine lettuce, having been fed mostly on that as well as fruit and tomatoes since my family got her decades ago. I have completely stopped the fruit and tomatoes and I'm managing to get her to eat dandelions, plantain and some other weeds/plants by sneaking it with the lettuce and cucumber when hand feeding her, she will not eat it otherwise. I will try some other ways to introduce the healthier selection of plants to her.

The basking area directly under the bulb needs to be closer to 36-37C.

Only use the 12% Arcadia for 3-4 hours mid day. Don't have it on all day. You LED strip should keep it plenty bright in there with the UV tube off.

The basking lamp is usually the "heat lamp", so what are you using for a heat lamp other than your basking flood bulb? CHEs are great, but infrared or colored bulbs should not be used.

All tortoises resist diet changes. They eat what they are used to eating. It takes weeks or months to slowly, gradually get them onto to better foods. Mince up a tiny amount of the new stuff super fine, and mix that with chopped up greens that have been wetted. The flecks of new stuff will stick to the old stuff, and you can gradually up the ratio of new to old as the tortoise accepts it. You can blend up cucumbers and smother everything with cucumber "juice" mixed all into it. This will often get them eating new stuff too.

 

[EmW]

The basking area directly under the bulb needs to be closer to 36-37C.

Only use the 12% Arcadia for 3-4 hours mid day. Don't have it on all day. You LED strip should keep it plenty bright in there with the UV tube off.

The basking lamp is usually the "heat lamp", so what are you using for a heat lamp other than your basking flood bulb? CHEs are great, but infrared or colored bulbs should not be used.

All tortoises resist diet changes. They eat what they are used to eating. It takes weeks or months to slowly, gradually get them onto to better foods. Mince up a tiny amount of the new stuff super fine, and mix that with chopped up greens that have been wetted. The flecks of new stuff will stick to the old stuff, and you can gradually up the ratio of new to old as the tortoise accepts it. You can blend up cucumbers and smother everything with cucumber "juice" mixed all into it. This will often get them eating new stuff too.

I will buy a timer to turn the UV tube on for only a couple of hours then. The temperature would drop too low if I didn't have the lamps to keep the ambient temperature up as it's getting colder here. I'm using deep heat emitters which don't produce light. I do have a CHE but i'm a bit scared of it as some reviews say they are fire hazards and have nearly burnt their houses down (although I'm not sure if they were using a thermostat or not).

Okay, I'll put the basking temperature up then. She isn't used to it being that hot though as it rarely gets that hot in the UK. When it does, she has always taken herself off to bed.

I tried chopping the cucumber up finely and mixing it with the healthier weeds but she wouldn't have it. I'll try blending cucumber and putting it on the some healthier food. At least I can get her to eat some at the moment. Would just be nice for her to eat them willingly! I will keep at it though.

 

[Tom]

I will buy a timer to turn the UV tube on for only a couple of hours then. The temperature would drop too low if I didn't have the lamps to keep the ambient temperature up as it's getting colder here. I'm using deep heat emitters which don't produce light. I do have a CHE but i'm a bit scared of it as some reviews say they are fire hazards and have nearly burnt their houses down (although I'm not sure if they were using a thermostat or not).

Okay, I'll put the basking temperature up then. She isn't used to it being that hot though as it rarely gets that hot in the UK. When it does, she has always taken herself off to bed.

I tried chopping the cucumber up finely and mixing it with the healthier weeds but she wouldn't have it. I'll try blending cucumber and putting it on the some healthier food. At least I can get her to eat some at the moment. Would just be nice for her to eat them willingly! I will keep at it though.

I normally don't like the deep heat projectors because they cause pyramiding in younger growing tortoises, but this is not a concern for a 50-60 year old tortoise. If those are working to keep your temperatures up, keep using them.

The basking temperature has nothing to do with what the weather in your climate does. It has to do with the tortoise being able to "sun" itself in our artificial indoor environment and get its core well above ambient. The whole enclosure should not be that warm. Just the area directly under your flood bulb at tortoise shell height. Check the temperature by laying a digital thermometer on its back, at tortoise shell height, directly under the flood lamp and letting it bake for an hour or more. Raise or lower it to get the correct basking temperature under it.

It will take weeks or months to get your tortoise eating better. Its not going to happen the first few times you try it. Just remember to start with tiny amounts of the new stuff. Chopped cucumber on a pile of unfamiliar food isn't going to work. Mince up a tiny leaf of a new weed, and mix that tiny amount in with a whole pile of chopped lettuce that has been mixed up with the blended cucumber. The tortoise won't even notice the few tiny bits of the new food. Over time, up the amount of new stuff, and reduce the amount of old stuff.

 

[EmW]

I've just ordered the timer for the UV tube, I'll raise the basking temp and I'll start blending the cucumber and slowly adding the new plants with the lettuce.

Thanks Tom I really appreciate you taking the time to give advice. Honestly reading your care sheets made me feel a lot less stressed as they are very clear and to the point. It helped a lot at a time is was so worried and stressed about suddenly having to look after a sick tortoise and house her indoors.

 

[EmW]

Today I managed to get her to eat a bite of kale, a decent sized plantain leaf, and a little bit of lambs lettuce by hiding it under the cucumber slices I hand fed her. I blended cucumber and mixed with leaves and she has 2 bites of that.

I offered her some chicory (endive) and to my shock she ate it straight away. I've offered it before and she's never eaten it. I will keep it up though. Yesterday I gave her half of the critical care feed she was prescribed (30ml) and I think I might skip it today or maybe just give her like 10ml because she ate quite a lot. Her poop is starting to be a bit more solid and less beige too which is also reassuring.

I've also put her basking spot up to 35. She's been under it for hours thought and is just sleeping.

 

[Tom]

I've also put her basking spot up to 35. She's been under it for hours thought and is just sleeping.

She needed to be able to warm up. Their immune system, digestive system, and every other system can't function with out the proper temperatures.

Appetite is a great sign that she is on the mend.