New tortoise aunt - moving sulcata to Arizona

[jfales]

Hello! I am new to the tortoise community and am a member of the Sulcata Station forum. Mac (a 23 year old, 100 pound tortoise) and I live in the high desert (7200') of Northern New Mexico. Mac was left widowed when his lifetime mom died about three years ago. Since then, my boss (who is also a veterinarian) has been caring for him.

My sister recently moved just north of Oro Valley, Arizona. She and her husband would like to care for Mac. They have more than three acres of natural desert landscape. Mesquite trees, prickly pear cacti, and other desert plants. They also have coyotes and javelinas.

I have gotten advice from Sulcata Station about transportation and enclosures. I am still unclear about how much food he will need. Here, he has irrigated turf during the summer (plus veggies, limited fruit) and hay (plus limited veggies and very limited fruit) in a 12'X12' heated shed in the winter. (It gets down to single digits here.)

In Arizona, the natural state of the desert will not provide an equivalent amount of turf. They can water and encourage plants to grow. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Should hay be fed all year? If hay is an adequate base plant source, how much should he get and at what frequency?

I have read of the issues with coyotes and the desert tortoises in Nevada. I realize that he is much larger than the average desert tortoise. I do think it is prudent to worry about the possibility of predation. I have also read that a motion-activated light can help deter coyotes. The suggestion was made to put him up at night in a house. That is certainly doable. Our coyotes are active all day long here.

Any advice or other tips for beginners would be graciously received. How long do sulcatas live? I hope we have another 30 years to give him.
Janine

 

[ascott]

my boss (who is also a veterinarian) has been caring for him.

My first question would be, why does the tort just not remain where he is? If he is doing well, healthy and happy why not leave as is...your sister may do well obtaining a tort that she can grow with

 

[mike taylor]

They will have to build him a fenced of area with a electric fence. This wilk shock the would be predators .

 

[Cowboy_Ken]

Janine,
First of all, welcome to the forum. Mike has a great idea in regard to using a hotline on a fence for predictor control. Also, the cactus should be fenced off from the tortoise because it's not a good everyday food item,(loose stools) the thorns are problematic, and the fruit is a bad choice for a sulcata. These are just a few things which need to be addressed.

 

[sibi]

Hi and welcome. I agree with Ascott. Why not leave the tortoise with the vet? If that was just a temporary situation, and Mac has to leave the vet, then like Mike suggested, have an electric fence put up. Sulcatas can live to be 100 years old. Since Mac is only 23, he may outlive your sister too.😊

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Hello Janine welcome to the TFO from AZ

 

[Tom]

He will need some sort of a large enclosure with a very solid wall barrier. It will need to be something he can't see through.

I free feed grass hay. It is always available to them. I put out a whole flake and when its gone, I throw down another. It is good to supplement with other things like mulberry leaves, grape leaves, hibiscus leaves, spineless opuntia cactus pads, Mazuri tortoise chow, and whatever weeds and grass you (they) can grow. Make sure shaded drinking water is always available in a large shallow vessel of some sort. Skip the fruit entirely.

I live in the middle of coyote country and have for nearly 20 years. I have never had any coyote bother my tortoises. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No. Locking the tortoise up in its warm heated box at night is a good idea. Your problem in AZ will be avoiding over heating for 9 months of the year. This tortoise will likely dig a burrow out there to escape the scorching AZ sunshine. This is fine in the warmer months, but I think its too cold for the winter months. Some of them survive out there in burrows all year long, but I wouldn't do it that way.

No one knows the lifespan of a sulcata. Extrapolating from what we do know of other species, there is no reason to suspect that they live less than 100 years, but we likely won't have this answer for another 200 years or so.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Janine, and welcome to the Forum!

I'm not quite sure I understand the problem. The tortoise now lives with you, but your sister wants him. Is there a reason you can't keep him? Maybe you're asking for our opinions on which home would be a better one for the tortoise? So in that case, you have the tortoise's best interest at heart?

Here's my opinion - I think that if you want to keep the tortoise, and it isn't a hardship for you to do so...if he's warm in the winter in the area you've provided for him, then keep him. There are many rescued sulcata tortoises out there that need homes. If your sister wants a tortoise it won't be hard for her to find one.

 

[jfales]

my boss (who is also a veterinarian) has been caring for him.

My first question would be, why does the tort just not remain where he is? If he is doing well, healthy and happy why not leave as is...your sister may do well obtaining a tort that she can grow with

My vet feels he would be happier in a warmer climate. Now, he lives more than a third of the year in his Tuffshed. While it is nice and cozy, he wants out when it is sunny and 50 deg F.

 

[jfales]

They will have to build him a fenced of area with a electric fence. This wilk shock the would be predators .

Thank you for the suggestion. I have read (on this forum) about putting a wire low for the digging predators. I've also been introduced to the coyote rollers. Does anyone have experience with coyote fences? Many people use them here to keep coyotes out of their back yards.

 

[jfales]

Janine,
First of all, welcome to the forum. Mike has a great idea in regard to using a hotline on a fence for predictor control. Also, the cactus should be fenced off from the tortoise because it's not a good everyday food item,(loose stools) the thorns are problematic, and the fruit is a bad choice for a sulcata. These are just a few things which need to be addressed.

Thanks, Cowboy Ken! I have your suggestions from Sulcata Station as well. You also commented on the coyote threat. Since then, I have read the horrors of the Nevada experiment where they moved many desert tortoises (or is it tortae) and the poor critters were attacked by coyotes.

 

[jfales]

Hi and welcome. I agree with Ascott. Why not leave the tortoise with the vet? If that was just a temporary situation, and Mac has to leave the vet, then like Mike suggested, have an electric fence put up. Sulcatas can live to be 100 years old. Since Mac is only 23, he may outlive your sister too.😊

My vet would like him to be happier than living more than a third of the year in a Tuff shed. He lived several years in Roswell, NM, until he was moved with mom to Northern NM.

 

[jfales]

Hello Janine welcome to the TFO from AZ

Thanks! What part of AZ are you in?

 

[jfales]

Hi Janine, and welcome to the Forum!

I'm not quite sure I understand the problem. The tortoise now lives with you, but your sister wants him. Is there a reason you can't keep him? Maybe you're asking for our opinions on which home would be a better one for the tortoise? So in that case, you have the tortoise's best interest at heart?

Here's my opinion - I think that if you want to keep the tortoise, and it isn't a hardship for you to do so...if he's warm in the winter in the area you've provided for him, then keep him. There are many rescued sulcata tortoises out there that need homes. If your sister wants a tortoise it won't be hard for her to find one.

My vet would like him to be happier. Maybe we all are thinking incorrectly that he would be happier where he could walk free (within a secure enclosure) for the whole year in a warmer climate. My sister and brother-in-law are happy to accommodate the move to their warmer climate. I can report that he wants out of his house in the winter; I doubt that he knows that it is too cold to go out. Because of his size, we don't let him out unless he can go back in under his own power. We have moved him back in under human power once this fall.

Do we have it wrong?

---

He will need some sort of a large enclosure with a very solid wall barrier. It will need to be something he can't see through.

I free feed grass hay. It is always available to them. I put out a whole flake and when its gone, I throw down another. It is good to supplement with other things like mulberry leaves, grape leaves, hibiscus leaves, spineless opuntia cactus pads, Mazuri tortoise chow, and whatever weeds and grass you (they) can grow. Make sure shaded drinking water is always available in a large shallow vessel of some sort. Skip the fruit entirely.

I live in the middle of coyote country and have for nearly 20 years. I have never had any coyote bother my tortoises. Is it possible? Yes. Likely? No. Locking the tortoise up in its warm heated box at night is a good idea. Your problem in AZ will be avoiding over heating for 9 months of the year. This tortoise will likely dig a burrow out there to escape the scorching AZ sunshine. This is fine in the warmer months, but I think its too cold for the winter months. Some of them survive out there in burrows all year long, but I wouldn't do it that way.

No one knows the lifespan of a sulcata. Extrapolating from what we do know of other species, there is no reason to suspect that they live less than 100 years, but we likely won't have this answer for another 200 years or so.

Thanks for your experience. I have read most of your posts about Sulcatas since finding this forum. I'm trying to figure out if we are skilled enough to make your tortoise home . Like your posts, my sister will have Mac close to her house. They will are willing to water to grow additional forage for him. I'm thinking they may need to rotate areas to allow the forage to grow - maybe sulcatas don't eat that aggressively? They can start watering now to get some of the native species growing prior to his arrival.

I am encouraged by your posts. Do you think he is better off staying put?

 

[mike taylor]

If he is loved and well cared for why move him? I would just build him a ten by ten heated shed and keep him . What better place for a sulcata to be with a vet. There are so many miss treated sulcatas out there if your sister really wants to save one save one that needs to be saved . Just think of it like this . In the wild they dig to get out of the hot sun . In our care we build the heated sheds to get out of the cold . My sulcata comes out in 30 degree weather as long as the suns out . He will graze for a little bit then go back and heat up .

 

[jfales]

If he is loved and well cared for why move him? I would just build him a ten by ten heated shed and keep him . What better place for a sulcata to be with a vet. There are so many miss treated sulcatas out there if your sister really wants to save one save one that needs to be saved . Just think of it like this . In the wild they dig to get out of the hot sun . In our care we build the heated sheds to get out of the cold . My sulcata comes out in 30 degree weather as long as the suns out . He will graze for a little bit then go back and heat up .

Right now, Mac is either in or out. His house literally is a Tuff Shed with a door. The vet has been trying to rehome Mac to a good environment for the past two years. She has been caring for the tortoise out of loyalty to the departed owner, not out of the desire to have a tortoise herself. She will not let him go just to get rid of him; rather, she trusts that my sister, her husband and I will all work together to give him a good home.

 

[Yvonne G]

There are many, many sulcata keepers in Arizona. It is a very good place for a sulcata to live. If you sister is willing to prepare the property to accept a living bull-dozer, then I say go for it! Have her read the sulcata challenge to give her an idea of what she is in store for:

http://www.turtlerescues.com/sulcata_challenge.htm

The most important thing for your sister to realize is the fencing. She needs to have a very sturdy fence to contain the tortoise.

This isn't as important to folks who raise their sulcatas from babies because the baby grows up learning his boundaries. But plunking a full grown sulcata down in a new territory - he's going to try to push the boundary. Once he becomes accustomed to his new territory, he'll stop trying to escape.

I think its great that you and the doc are thinking about the tortoise and where would be best for him to live. We have a thread here devoted to Arizona tortoise-keepers. Take a look there, and talk to some of those folks about how they have their sulcatas set up:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-79492.html

 

[jfales]

There are many, many sulcata keepers in Arizona. It is a very good place for a sulcata to live. If you sister is willing to prepare the property to accept a living bull-dozer, then I say go for it! Have her read the sulcata challenge to give her an idea of what she is in store for:

http://www.turtlerescues.com/sulcata_challenge.htm

The most important thing for your sister to realize is the fencing. She needs to have a very sturdy fence to contain the tortoise.

This isn't as important to folks who raise their sulcatas from babies because the baby grows up learning his boundaries. But plunking a full grown sulcata down in a new territory - he's going to try to push the boundary. Once he becomes accustomed to his new territory, he'll stop trying to escape.

I think its great that you and the doc are thinking about the tortoise and where would be best for him to live. We have a thread here devoted to Arizona tortoise-keepers. Take a look there, and talk to some of those folks about how they have their sulcatas set up:

http://www.tortoiseforum.org/thread-79492.html

Thank you for the encouragement. I will send my sister and her husband the link about sulcata's as pets. Thank you, too, for the Arizona link! I very much appreciate the help!

 

[Rache]

That sulcata challenge sure is an eye opener! Excellent link

 

[Grandpa Turtle 144]

Janine I'm from Phx , AZ I see a couple of problems one if you put up a fence and the tort can see through it he may hurt him self trieing to get to the other side of it ! And if you put up a brick wall that's 6-8 feet tall a coyote can jump it ! And I live in the city and 3yrs ago we had a family of raccoons moved in for just one night and they killed about 5-7 of my baby torts . I think if I was in your place I would keep the old tort and let my sister get her oun from CL . Because I would want the family problems if something happened to the old tort ( you would be sick ) but you do what you think is best . Good luck