OOPS LEOPARD LOVES KRILL

[wellington]

I was feeding my RES some freeze dried krill. I drop the container and some fell right in front of Tatum.(the pond and Tatums enclosure butt up) Now I am not concerned about the ones he ate. But I was just wondering why he went nuts for it? He if was larger, I would not have wanted my hand in his way. He acted like he had never eaten in his life. I even tried getting a piece away from him, and if it wasn't for the fact the piece broke, I think Tatum would have been dangling in the air, before he would have let go. Any thoughts? Would it be bad to feed to him once in a while, as a treat only? I have never seen him so excited over food.

 

[Tom]

You discovered a new way to get reluctant tortoises eating!!!

Maybe Tatum is of the rare North Pole aquatic subspecies of leopards.

A little bit won't hurt, but personally I wouldn't make a habit of it. This is really debateable though. For a long time people have thought certain things about tortoise diets, and we do keep learning new things... One of hatchling leopards main foods in the wild being feces, for example...

 

[ascott]

I think that if you "seasoned" his food from time to time with crumbled krill he would be highly excited and appreciate it....

Keep in mind that he may get use to the yummy seasoning and hold out for it....I do offer some bug part seasoning to the redfoot torts here...not alot but some, yet again two different species I am comparing.....

A bit of krill should be aok in my opinion....after all, they would eat/consume bugs in their every day grazing of plants....

 

[Kristina]

I don't typically offer my grazing tortoises (Sulcatas, Russians, Star, and Greek) meat based foods. However, I have observed every single one of them eating worms and bugs outdoors. My Hingebacks and Redfoots go NUTSOID over worms and fish. I agree with Tom and Angela, I wouldn't make a huge habit of it, but the little bit he ate isn't going to harm him, and neither is a sprinkle once a month or so.

The whole "protein" thing with tortoises is so blown out of proportion... I seriously don't know of any life form that can live on fiber alone. The whole "protein is bad" issue in relation to dog and cat food is obvious - if a tortoise is kept dry indoors, not offered water, and fed nothing but dog food and romaine/iceberg, of COURSE it is going to have severe MBD and kidney problems. But that doesn't mean that no tortoise can ever have protein and that protein is the devil! See what I'm saying? They want to blame it all on the protein, because of the dog food, but there are other issues that have to be addressed as well.

 

[wellington]

WOW, I really thought everyone was going to say no, not recommended at all. I do want to see if I can use a little of it to get Tatum to eat Mazuri. Nothing I have tried works. I thought about just letting the dry Mazuri sit in the krill. It is strong smelling. Might be able to just trick him with the smell alone.
Thanks everyone.

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You discovered a new way to get reluctant tortoises eating!!!

Maybe Tatum is of the rare North Pole aquatic subspecies of leopards.

A little bit won't hurt, but personally I wouldn't make a habit of it. This is really debateable though. For a long time people have thought certain things about tortoise diets, and we do keep learning new things... One of hatchling leopards main foods in the wild being feces, for example...

Hmmmm, he could be, he is special.

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I think that if you "seasoned" his food from time to time with crumbled krill he would be highly excited and appreciate it....

Keep in mind that he may get use to the yummy seasoning and hold out for it....I do offer some bug part seasoning to the redfoot torts here...not alot but some, yet again two different species I am comparing.....

A bit of krill should be aok in my opinion....after all, they would eat/consume bugs in their every day grazing of plants....

Now, I have to find is own fancy krill shaker

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I don't typically offer my grazing tortoises (Sulcatas, Russians, Star, and Greek) meat based foods. However, I have observed every single one of them eating worms and bugs outdoors. My Hingebacks and Redfoots go NUTSOID over worms and fish. I agree with Tom and Angela, I wouldn't make a huge habit of it, but the little bit he ate isn't going to harm him, and neither is a sprinkle once a month or so.

The whole "protein" thing with tortoises is so blown out of proportion... I seriously don't know of any life form that can live on fiber alone. The whole "protein is bad" issue in relation to dog and cat food is obvious - if a tortoise is kept dry indoors, not offered water, and fed nothing but dog food and romaine/iceberg, of COURSE it is going to have severe MBD and kidney problems. But that doesn't mean that no tortoise can ever have protein and that protein is the devil! See what I'm saying? They want to blame it all on the protein, because of the dog food, but there are other issues that have to be addressed as well.

Yes, Kristina, I do understand what you were saying. I'm sure the right protein, bugs, isn't no where near harmful like dog and cat food. Just not a main stay of the diet either.

 

[Tom]

The whole "protein" thing with tortoises is so blown out of proportion... I seriously don't know of any life form that can live on fiber alone. The whole "protein is bad" issue in relation to dog and cat food is obvious - if a tortoise is kept dry indoors, not offered water, and fed nothing but dog food and romaine/iceberg, of COURSE it is going to have severe MBD and kidney problems. But that doesn't mean that no tortoise can ever have protein and that protein is the devil! See what I'm saying? They want to blame it all on the protein, because of the dog food, but there are other issues that have to be addressed as well.

Very well said. I agree completely.

 

[DeanS]

The whole "protein" thing with tortoises is so blown out of proportion... I seriously don't know of any life form that can live on fiber alone. The whole "protein is bad" issue in relation to dog and cat food is obvious - if a tortoise is kept dry indoors, not offered water, and fed nothing but dog food and romaine/iceberg, of COURSE it is going to have severe MBD and kidney problems. But that doesn't mean that no tortoise can ever have protein and that protein is the devil! See what I'm saying? They want to blame it all on the protein, because of the dog food, but there are other issues that have to be addressed as well.

Very well said. I agree completely.

I'll second that! I can't imagine torts that spend at least their first year in a burrow don't happen upon (and devour) some animal protein...beit insect, slug (snail)...or even newborn mammals. Nice thinking on the krill btw!

 

[wellington]

Thanks. Nice little accident, turning out to be quite okay

 

[Tom]

I feel compelled to mention a conversation I had with Richard Fife a couple of years ago, and this seems like the right place to do it.

He had been doing experiments with prepared foods and all was going very well. All of a sudden some of his animals started failing. He contacted the manufacturer and they had changed the formulation of their product due to some "market research", and didn't tell him or anyone else. Apparently in some focus groups, potential customers told this company they would not buy this product because the protein content was too high for tortoises. Mind you these were just regular tortoise people off the street. Not nutritionists or tortoise researchers or even real tortoise "practitioners" like some of us. Just some casual pet tortoise owners. The protein level was so low in the new formulation that Richard's tortoises could not even survive on it. He told me that he was of the opinion that most tortoises in America today are fed a diet too LOW in protein and that they NEED a certain amount just to function. He felt Mazuri was an excellent way to achieve this.

Obviously, gobs of dog or cat food is not what anyone is suggesting for your average tortoise, but some occasional legumes, an errant bug or snail, or a little alfalfa from time to time might actually be a good thing.

 

[wellington]

Thanks for sharing Tom. Interesting. Seeing how I can't get Tatum to eat the Mazuri yet maybe he is missing the protein enough that, that is why he went nuts for it.
Can you help me put or anyone on the rock chewing? They aren't small enough to cause him a problem, but he does like to try and bite them. Is it lack of minerals? Anything to feed to replace what he might want out of the rock? Any ideas, anyone

 

[GeoTerraTestudo]

Herbivores are specialized for a plant-based diet, but that doesn't mean they don't benefit from eating some animal matter every now and then. I have seen footage of hippos (grazers) scavenging a carcass, and whitetail deer (browsers) eating a fallen bird.

Redfoots are known to be somewhat omnivorous, but even other, more herbivorous tortoise species have been known to eat animal matter from time to time. Mediterranean tortoises eat snails, and sulcatas may scavenge meat.

Leopard tortoises probably don't eat crustaceans in the wild, but they probably do eat live invertebrates or dead vertebrates when they find them, which is probably why your guy was eager to scarf down the next best thing.

There certainly are plenty of horror stories about tortoises (and even box turtles) becoming terribly deformed by MBD, after a diet of nothing but dog food for years. But that's not the same thing as acquiring some precious nutrients from a bug or a bird just a couple times per year.

 

[EricIvins]

I make it a point to feed all my Tortoises whole Fish at least twice a week, if not every other feeding. They do get Rodents every now and then, but it is a whole lot cheaper for me to spend some time on the water and kill two Birds with one stone.......I've been experimenting with this for a year or two now, and the results are really astounding.......

Most of the so called "Herbivores" are quite Omnivorous......My Rhino Iguanas love it, and so do the Sulcatas......

 

[Tom]

I make it a point to feed all my Tortoises whole Fish at least twice a week, if not every other feeding. They do get Rodents every now and then, but it is a whole lot cheaper for me to spend some time on the water and kill two Birds with one stone.......I've been experimenting with this for a year or two now, and the results are really astounding.......

Most of the so called "Herbivores" are quite Omnivorous......My Rhino Iguanas love it, and so do the Sulcatas......

This post is a bit "astounding".

 

[wellington]

It is Tom. What astounds me, is how many do feed some protein and how many agree, that it's not such as bad of an idea as I thought.

 

[DesertGrandma]

Wellington, on the rock issue....I asked this same question awhile back and was told by several people that adding the supplement Miner-all (Sticky Tongue Farms) might help. It can be ordered online.

 

[Jacqui]

It's just another example of these guys being opportunistic feeders and that I believe is one of their biggest keys to surviving all these years. While the Leopard may not be designed to go fishing for his own food, if he came upon a dried up pond with a fish carcass he is going to think survival not "that's not a plant, nope not going to eat it". If he comes upon some manure, takes a sniff and thinks, "this animal ate a bunch of fish last week", is he going to not eat it? No. We think we know our tortoises needs and wants, but we are so early in our infancy of knowing and understanding them that we fail at times to listen to them. Your tortoise is telling you loud and clearly, that either he may just like the flavor of krill or perhaps something in his diet is very lacking, but he can get it from eating the krill. Variety is the key and it sounds like part of the variety should be an occasional misplaced piece of krill.

 

[EricIvins]

It is Tom. What astounds me, is how many do feed some protein and how many agree, that it's not such as bad of an idea as I thought.

People have been doing this in Florida for years, especially those that keep both Turtles and Tortoises. The difference is that these animals are kept outside, in temperatures that allow these animals to metabolize what they take in........People are not allowing that to happen to animals inside, which leads to obesity, deformations, Organ damage/failure, and a myriad of other things that are then blamed on something else.......

 

[Tom]

I really thought Eric was pulling a prank. Although he's never done that before. In fact he's never show any sense of humor, so it must be genuine. No offense Eric, just stating the obvious. I mean you no disrespect and your input is always appreciated.

Like Kristina said, protein is NOT the villain that some of us once thought it was, but I don't think I'm ready to start feeding my grazers whole fish every other day. I once tossed a freshly trapped dead gopher to my adult sulcatas to see what they would do. They sniffed at it and walked away to graze on weeds. Maybe mine get enough protein elsewhere? Never tried fish or krill.

The late great Bert Langerwurf used to chop up frozen chickens and turkeys with a band saw. He would some times throw some of the bones and scraps to his big sulcatas and they would gobble them up. He did this for years in Alabama.

This is an interesting discussion, but I don't know what I want to do with this info yet... Jacqui or Kristina, are you prepared to make any suggestions?

 

[Neal]

I make it a point to feed all my Tortoises whole Fish at least twice a week, if not every other feeding. They do get Rodents every now and then, but it is a whole lot cheaper for me to spend some time on the water and kill two Birds with one stone.......I've been experimenting with this for a year or two now, and the results are really astounding.......

Most of the so called "Herbivores" are quite Omnivorous......My Rhino Iguanas love it, and so do the Sulcatas......

Eric, what type of fish? What type of results are you seeing compared to tortoises not getting fish?

 

[Jacqui]

I make it a point to feed all my Tortoises whole Fish at least twice a week, if not every other feeding. They do get Rodents every now and then, but it is a whole lot cheaper for me to spend some time on the water and kill two Birds with one stone.......I've been experimenting with this for a year or two now, and the results are really astounding.......

Most of the so called "Herbivores" are quite Omnivorous......My Rhino Iguanas love it, and so do the Sulcatas......

Eric, what type of fish? What type of results are you seeing compared to tortoises not getting fish?

That's what I would like to know too. Are they a boney fish?

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This is an interesting discussion, but I don't know what I want to do with this info yet... Jacqui or Kristina, are you prepared to make any suggestions?

I think have two sibling sulcata, one gets regular food and one gets his weekly fish fix.

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I do feed fish to my hingebacks and even the redfoots a time or two.