Patience is a virtue?

[Kateofsometrades]

Hello all,

I am -almost- an entirely new reptile owner. (When I was little I had all manner of animals, and had a leopard gecko as a class pet for a while.) I recently purchased Dill (a Russian Tortoise) from PetCo. I officially HATE PetCo now and will never give my money to them again. I went in with the intention of having a new pet, as well as a class pet. (I teach High School). I bought nearly $400 worth of "appropriate" equipment for him, things that I were told were essential. As I did further research I realized that I had been taken for a ride. I was given completely WRONG information on what food to give him, UVB lights, the list goes on. So, feeling overwhelmed I thought I would take him back, but then saw that these amazing animals are essentially poached from the wild and decided that I could give him a better quality of life than stupid PetCo.

So, Dill and I are on day 4 of learning about each other and he still has not eaten. I now have a special greens mix from a local reptile store. He has not touched it. I have also soaked him, but he seemed to be distressed so he only soaked for about 10 minutes. No poop, no eating still. I have tried giving him other greens including spinach (a no-no), a jade plant leaf (seems ok via tortoise care websites), a strawberry (another no-no).......I feel that I have a good handle on what is appropriate food now, he just doesn't touch anything.

His enclosure is a 40 gallon tank with tape on the bottom reaching 5 inches up. (I did this to alleviate his bumping into the glass.) He has a water container with a ramp which I just moved to a corner of the tank so he doesn't have to walk around it at all. He has a food dish and a small hide. I have the appropriate lighting now as well. The tank is holding steady at 82 degrees, which still may be too cool.

He loves to dig, and has his active moments. Mostly he just lounges, which, from my understanding, is ok. He always extends his head out to see me when I come by his tank. (He's just about the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.) His substrate is a combo of wood chips (I cannot remember the variety) and another organic mix appropriate for tortoises. He seems to really like it.

My heart hurts for him, and I really want him to be as happy as a captive tortoise can be. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Kate

PS: His carapace seems to be slightly malformed. The three middle panels are not smooth. Could this be because he has been sick/malnourished in the past? Or is it a current and pressing concern? I have NOT taken him to the vet. I have attached a mediocre picture of him.

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome. If it helps, you are not the first to get bad info from and pet store. What's worse, there are breeders out there that still gives bad info. Give your guy some time to get used to his new home. Adults seem to take longer then babies. The basking spot should be 90+ but the cooler end can be 70-75 and a russian does not need heat at night being in your home.
An adult russian in the wild travels a lot and covers a lot of ground. A 40 gallon tank is very small for an adult russian. When you can, I would try to make a bigger indoor enclosure and also a large outdoor enclosure for warm weather. I would also try to get 30% humidity in the enclosure for an adult. Keep soaking him about every other day until you see him drink on his own. Also, some torts don't ike to be stood over when eating, so be sure to give him his space until he gets settled in.
Btw, although I wish pet stores would stop selling tortoises altogether, I'm glad you didn't take him back.

 

[wellington]

Oh, and I think he looks just fine.

 

[Yvonne G]

Hi Kate, and welcome to the Forum!

Russian tortoises are diggers, but at a steady 82F he might be trying to dig down into the earth to cool down a bit.

 

[Delilah1623]

I also got mine at Petco and he didn't eat for 3 weeks. If your petco is like the one here they were feeding iceberg lettuce and frozen fruit. I mixed this with healthy greens for a while and slowly reduced the iceberg lettuce and fruit until he is now eating good stuff. Plus it can take them a long time to settle in and it feels like you're doing everything wrong! It gets better!

Also look into having a vet check a fecal sample, a lot of wild caught torts will have parasites of some kind.

 

[Tom]

You are on the right track and have come to the right place. A few things to consider:
1. A 40 is much too small. More space will make him come around faster.
2. You say the temp is 82. Where? There are four temps to know and be concerned with. Warm side, cool side, basking area right under the light, and over night low. Can you tell us those four temps?
3. You substrate looks like orchid bark and that is ideal.
4. This time of year is hibernation time. Even when temps are warm and days are bright indoors, they still know its time to sleep for a few months. Keeping him warmer and brighter, along with daily soaks, will often convince them to stay up for winter, but sometimes not.
5. Those ramped water bowls from the pet store are literally death traps. They can flip and drown in them. Just happened to a member here a few months back. Terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate work much better and only cost a couple of bucks at the hardware store.
6. You say you have the "appropriate" lighting now. We don't all agree on what is appropriate. Can you tell us what you have for day and night?
7. Your tortoise looks great in the one pic. Totally healthy, normal looking carapace, with some recent growth even, which is a good sign. We'd love to see the rest of him.

Here are some threads that I think will help you:
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/russian-tortoise-care-sheet.80698/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/semi-underground-russian-box.98590/
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/threads/beginner-mistakes.45180/

 

[dmmj]

Salutations.
Yes pet stores want to sell, t's their job. I am also glad you didn't take him back. Tortoises like routine, when that routine is dfisturbed, they often stop eating (think OCD). Give him some time, keep offering food he should start eating soon. Can you get some hibiscus flowers (tortoise crack) he should eat those.
Excelsior!

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Welcome

 

[tortdad]

Welcome. Just so you know how small that tank really is. Its the equivalent of you trying to live in a 'half bath' size bathroom. Most will agree that the minimum size enclosure for a Russian is 4' x 8'. Is he living at your house or is he your class pet? He sure does look nice.

 

[tortadise]

Welcome

 

[ZEROPILOT]

What part of the world do you live in so we can offer tips on wild growing and free foods and better help with the housing.

 

[Kateofsometrades]

Hi all,

I will try my best to answer all of your questions.

Tom:
1. A 40 is much too small. More space will make him come around faster....see Tortdad's question and response below.

2. You say the temp is 82. Where? There are four temps to know and be concerned with. Warm side, cool side, basking area right under the light, and over night low. Can you tell us those four temps?.......I have Dills warming lamp on one side of the tank. That's where it's holding at 82 degrees. The building is heated so the overnight low is probably the mid 60s. I am not sure what the other temperatures are in the tank. :/

3. You substrate looks like orchid bark and that is ideal......Victory!

4. This time of year is hibernation time. Even when temps are warm and days are bright indoors, they still know its time to sleep for a few months. Keeping him warmer and brighter, along with daily soaks, will often convince them to stay up for winter, but sometimes not....he's still sleepy.

5. Those ramped water bowls from the pet store are literally death traps. They can flip and drown in them. Just happened to a member here a few months back. Terra cotta plant saucers sunk into the substrate work much better and only cost a couple of bucks at the hardware store....I had one available and immediately changed his water containers. THANK YOU for letting me know this. Funny, no one at PetCo mentioned it.

6. You say you have the "appropriate" lighting now. We don't all agree on what is appropriate. Can you tell us what you have for day and night?....Day AND night I have the ceramic 100 watt warming bulb on. During the day I turn on the UVB bulb that runs across the back of his enclosure.

Tortdad: He is currently in my classroom. I fully intend on making my own, larger enclosure for Dill. I was thinking about building and lining a shallow wooden box and then putting seed trays in there with a variety of substrates. That way I can also plant goodies. This will more than likely be a spring or summer project. In the meantime, would a 50 gallon 'tupperware' container work? Could I get one that is short, eg. the sides are low? How high do the sides need to be?

Zeropilot: I live in Denver Colorado. We actually are having some cold weather right now, colder than a 'normal' winter. I cant wait for dandelions to come up again and feed them to Dill!

I also have a new question. Are tortoises like cats? Can you leave them for a weekend?

Thanks so much all!

-Kate

 

[Tom]

Good info.

Sounds like he might not be able to warm up enough during the day. They need and area under their bulb that get into the high 90's or so. They use this area to warm up and then move out from under it when their body temp is where they want it. You might need to add one more fixture with a 65-100 watt incandescent flood bulb in it. These are cheap at the hardware store. Petco didn't tell you about buying most of your tortoise supplies at the hard ware store either, did they? I would set your heat bulb, your ceramic heating element and your UV tube along the back all on one timer. Since you don't want him to hibernate this year, set the timer for about 14 hours of "daylight" each day. You should not need night heat, but leaving the CHE on all the time, might also help to convince him its not winter. Just plug that one directly into the wall if you decide to go that route, and it can stay on 24/7 in winter. The warmer temps and brightness should help to convince him to stay up for winter and start eating again. This will take some time. Tortoises are slow to adjust to new environments.

Russians are escape artists. I'm still not convinced they can't levitate when humans aren't looking. One day I will catch them in the act! That said, I like the sides to be relatively high. At least 12" above the substrate. So with 4-6" of substrate, I'd use 16-18" sides, or higher. It is really easy to make a plywood floor and screw on some sides to make a large open table for an adult russian. Easy to add some legs too, if you don't have something to set it on. I wish my teachers had a class pet like this when I was in school.

There is no reason you can't leave an adult russian over the weekend from Friday afternoon until Monday morning. I would throw down a big pile of food on Friday, freshen up the water bowl (or remove it if he's a water bowl pooper) and let your light timers do their work. Just make sure that the building heat stays on over the weekend. If it doesn't, he could die if it gets below freezing up there in Denver over winter. Spineless opuntia cactus pads are really good for this purpose. They last a long time with no refrigeration, where greens will wilt and could get rotten or mushy on you.

 

[Kateofsometrades]

Thanks Tom! I looked at your outdoor enclosures and I am jealous! I am getting married this summer and am still working on getting my fiancee to let me buy a ranch in the mountains. At least then Dill could be an outside tortoise in the summers!

I will definitely create a better enclosure for him soon. Then Ill take that crap back to PetCo. I still have 25 days.

I am going to try the cactus idea. We have those in the grocery here in Denver.

He's still not eating, but I did find a poop/peep in his enclosure this morning. So something is going well.

Great lighting advice too. I will get a flood light and timer ASAP.

Thanks SO much!

 

[Kateofsometrades]

Wait, one more thing. We have fall break coming up, and I will be out of town from the 22nd-30th. I'm glad that I can leave him for a weekend, but this break would be too much time, am I right? I am just worried about moving him again so soon after bringing him to my classroom. (Clearly, I could have thought this all out better.) Should I send him home for the break with a trustworthy student? (I have many.) I just want him to be able to adjust and start eating regularly.

 

[Tom]

Wait, one more thing. We have fall break coming up, and I will be out of town from the 22nd-30th. I'm glad that I can leave him for a weekend, but this break would be too much time, am I right? I am just worried about moving him again so soon after bringing him to my classroom. (Clearly, I could have thought this all out better.) Should I send him home for the break with a trustworthy student? (I have many.) I just want him to be able to adjust and start eating regularly.

I would use his current set up to bring him home with you for the break. Then you could move him into his new digs back in the classroom after the break. Even better would be to leave him where he is and just go take care of him every day or every other for five minutes. Check the lights, throw down some food, clean the water and Bye!

 

[Kateofsometrades]

We're driving 1,000 miles to Chicago...

 

[Tom]

We're driving 1,000 miles to Chicago...

D'oh! Time to hire a baby sitter...

 

[Kateofsometrades]

I'll send him home with a student and hope that he doesn't get stressed. I have a care sheet written up, and will send goodies with him.

I think I'm having separation anxiety. Le sigh.