Rescue with vision problems: Suggestions?

Floof

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So I recently took in 2 very, very stunted little Sulcata tortoises. (Actually, 3 of them--but one, whose shell was partially caved in, died within about 24 hrs.) Obvious issues are MBD and very underweight.. They weighed 53 and 65 grams on arrival, at allegedly 2 years old. We're working on the MBD with liquid calcium/baby food soaks daily, lots of sunshine, and of course proper diet (arugula, dandelion, opuntia so far, supplemented with Superveggie and Tortoisesupply's Herbal Hay).

To the issue at hand... Sunday morning, I noticed both have terrible aim. Almost like their depth perception is off. I hand fed each for a bit, then had to get to work. Monday morning, I noticed the bigger baby's aim seemed to improve. Hand fed little baby a bit, big baby got in on the action, too. By this morning, the bigger baby is eating like a champ, but little baby is still biting at the air unless I hold it up to his mouth.

I just (as I was typing this, ha) remembered I have liquid bird vitamins in the cabinet, that contain 315000 IU of Vit. A per fl. oz, so I'll start adding that to their soaks... But is there anything else I can do to help his vision? Anything else that may be causing this?

If it helps... Previous owners were keeping them indoors only. Most recently in a bare plastic bin with no light. They allegedly used to have a bulb of some sort, but the dog broke it--they didn't really say when that happened, or how long they've been without light. They did provide a water dish (or, that's the claim). The diet in the previous home was lettuce, fruit, and carrot strips. No supplements, unknown whether they actually ate any of the carrots.

I've had them since Friday afternoon. They were outside Fri, Sat, Sun, Mon. Partial sun the first two days, then pulled back onto the patio where they got full shade from about 11-12 on (injured baby passed on Sat, and I feared suddenly being thrown out into sun and heat may have contributed). They were indoors today under Reptisun 10.0, humid enclosure, 105 basking spot 85-90F cool end (working on bumping that down to 80--all I had empty was a 33" condo which hold heat like crazy) due to weather.

Suggestions are always, always, always welcomed!! Thanks so much! Photos below are from the day they arrived. :)

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ascott

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Is the reptisun 10.0 the long tube type bulb or those short florescent U shaped ones? If it is the U shaped, I would not use that bulb, especially since the babies eyes are ultra sensitive right now.....if the baby is growing/developing and does not have light as part of that process, their eyes can literally be injured by sudden bright lights...so gradual increase of lighting is, in my opinion, better than full blown blazing sun....like you said, you have them on the porch in the shade, this will allow their eyes to adjust to the needed uv rays....

Air biters, well, you can do exactly what you are doing---hand feeding the tort to help it develop some energy from nutrition. Then when you offer food push it into a corner set up and pile it high....place the tort right in front of it, nearly with the nose touching the pile...I think if memory serves me, Yvonne also does this with great success....I find that if you use foods that have a good smell (strong smell) it will encourage the tort to munch away....periodically you can repile the food and let the tort go at it....it will take the tort awhile to finish the pile so I would offer a private, quiet place for the tort to eat alone...so he can take his time and not feel pressure from the other tort---also, remember now you are dealing with a pair--and the dynamics of these two torts will change quickly, especially if one is quicker at the recovery and shows to be the physically stronger one....
 

Yvonne G

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If the tortoises were kept under a coil shaped compact fluorescent bulb, they are probably suffering from a painful condition similar to snow blindness. They should start getting better now that they are no longer under that bulb. You can offer them some relief if you can find Terramycin Opthalmic Ointment and dab a bit on each eye three times a day. Its hard to find. My second choice, though not medicinal like the first choice, is Vetericyn. You can find that at any pet store.
 

Floof

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Thanks for the suggestions!

It is a tube style, this will only be day 2 that they're under it. I don't know what style bulb they were using. They were unclear on a lot of things.. Just that they've been in the dark since it broke.

I have been trying the pile thing (still manages to miss), but I'll try splitting them up to eat in the next couple days. I have tomorrow and Fri off, so I will be able to take more time feeding and figuring out what works.
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Are their eyes a funny blueish/whiteish color? I have several animals with eye permanent problems and the eyes seem to be that color. Similar to cataracts I think...If they are not odd looking, follow Yvonne's advice and I'm sure they will improve. It takes a long time to get tortoises who have not been well cared for to get better. Don't give up. Love their color.
 

Floof

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Maggie, I'll take a look when I get home. I seem to recall their eyes being the normal black, but could be mistaken.

I'll look for some Terramycin. We do have the Vetericyn opthalmic ointment at work, if all else fails.
 

Floof

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Their eyes are normal colored.

Little one is doing very well with hand-feeding. Ate most of a dandelion leaf, and I saw him eating later in the day (looked like he may have been hitting the mark, or close--he stopped when he saw me).

Taken a couple days ago--the indoor enclosure. 33"x16"x16" critter condo. Please excuse the label, they're borrowing my female schneider's viv while she's off consorting with her boyfriend. :)

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Maggie Cummings

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I think they are fine. Baby tortoises are just like human babies, not everything is developed yet. I doubt that you'll find the Terramycin as they've stopped making it. Use the Vetericyn and set them up correctly and it will work out. Just a reminder, they should have 80% humidity so they don't pyramid. They need other stuff too, in order to not pyramid. Read Tom's caresheet on them. There should be water dripping on that glass and it should be all fogged up. IMO, that substrate might be good for your skink, but the pieces are too big for a small baby to walk on good. I am glad you took them, you can give them a great start and you'll have nice smooth Sulcata. Keep us posted on their recovery...
PS...I don't think they are 2 yrs old...
 

Floof

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Maggie, thank you. I am well aware of their humidity needs. I used Tom's care sheet for the first year and a half with my (also a rescue) Leopard tortoise, with beautiful results. That photo was taken immediately after set up, before the moisture had a chance to build up into humidity and condensation. The enclosure is temporary, really, and the biggest challenge so far is balancing the ambient temps, as its the middle cage in a stack of condos with 95-100F basking spots. They are soaked 1-2x daily for 20 minute stretches: water, RescueCal (liquid calcium supplement), bird vitamins, and either squash or carrot baby food. I mist the enclosure and their shells regularly and keep 2 water dishes available at all times.

They get around very well on the cypress, but I will keep a very close eye on their mobility and switch as needed. Like I said, the indoor enclosure is just temporary, for those days they're able to get outside for natural sunlight. The cypress pieces seem to lock together to form a fairly solid 'bed' to walk on, not like, say, pellets that are just unstable and uncomfortable. I ran out of eco earth the day before they arrived, waiting for the LPS to restock before I can get more. (They also have fresh substrate--I didn't just leave the skink's old substrate in. I even scrubbed with ammonia first. ;) )

As far as their age, the previous owners told me they had had them for 2 years. They had no reason to lie. It's possible they were mistaken, as they get babies in their yard annually from their neighbors--the irresponsible owners of these babies' parents--but even still, baby season has not begun yet in their neck of the woods, so they're for sure at least almost a year old. My Leopard tortoise was a similar case, incidentally. The owner had owned all of his tortoises/turtles for a year and a half, originally purchased at a pet store. Again, no reason to lie about how long he'd had them, and I got to see first hand how they were being kept. Housed indoors, no UVB, grossly underfed, sometimes not even with a daytime light, as the owner regularly forgot to turn it on. He was 40 grams when I got him.
 

TylerStewart

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Let me know where to send terramycin (via PM or email) and I'll get some on the way, my treat :)
 

Floof

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Tyler, you're incredible! Thank you so much for the generous offer. PM has been sent. :)

Little one's vision seems to be getting better. It was warm enough to put them out for sun this afternoon, and little baby started chowing on a dandelion leaf with actually decent accuracy. Meanwhile, the moment he was in the sun, big baby (whose appetite was meh yesterday and this morning), immediately went to town on their freshly sprouted broadleaf weeds. :D
 
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Maggie Cummings

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Taylor...Sorry, I guess I am in the habit of telling newbies how to care for their small torts, I apologize for doing that to you...
You already described the little ones eyes to me, but I wanted you to see what I was talking about. Here is my blind Ornata...I call her Bright Eyes.
You are lucky Tyler has some Terramycin, there is none in Oregon and Yvonne can't find any in Calif either. I was told by Pfizer that they stopped making it.
Your camera takes good close-ups, made those cypress mulch pieces look BIG...
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Floof

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Maggie, I understand completely. :) Sorry if I came off a little touchy. I guess I'm not used to being on this side of the discussion, lol!

Thank you for the visual. Now I know what to watch for if/when I ever take in another vision impaired chelonian. :)

That's a shame about Terramycin. I've heard great things, for reptiles and mammals alike!
 

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