Russian tortoise burrowing all day during the day, runny nose, moving slower than usual. please help

[jjk2003]

I am a new tortoise owner taking care of my boyfriend’s russian tortoise while he is away. I have never cared for a reptile before and much of the information I have, I got online or from my boyfriend/his mom. I am not sure how old he is but I know my boyfriend has had him for 17 years. This morning he did not wake me up by moving around in his enclosure, as he usually does when his lights come on in the morning. I was not worried at first, but when I came back from running errands he was partially burrowed under his basking lamp. I took him out and soaked him in water for a little while, and he drank quite a bit. His eyes are shiny and have no mucus or crust. However, I noticed that his nose was runny. There was a snot bubble in one nostril, but he is not wheezing, squeaking, or breathing with his mouth. I am wondering if he may have gotten some dust or a small bit of substrate in his nose while he was burrowed?
He also seemed to be almost scratching at his face, which I have never seen him do before, however I think he is in the process of shedding.
He also keeps opening and closing his mouth, almost like he is biting the air in front of him. It does not seem like he is struggling to breathe.
There was a small piece of substrate that seemed to be stuck in his mouth that I carefully removed with sterilized tweezers, and that seemed to alleviate some of his discomfort, but soon after that he burrowed again, this time all the way underground.
I am terrified that he is ill. I cannot contact my boyfriend as he does not have cell service where he is. I know runny noses in tortoises can be a sign of an upper respiratory disease, and that more signs of this are lethargy and poor appetite.
I let him roam my backyard for awhile yesterday and gave him a pretty big salad of hostas, dandelion greens, mustard greens, and rose petals sprinkled with calcium powder. He ate most of it but it took him a lot longer than usual.
It is worth noting that I interact with him a great deal more than my boyfriend did, as he was at work all day 5 days a week and had gotten used to taking care of the tortoise without fawning over him nonstop. He very well could be stressed out from the change in environment from his house to my house, and with the increased level of activity. I also have 2 cats who don’t really bother him but who like to sit on his enclosure and watch him, whereas my boyfriend’s cat is terrified of him and leaves him alone.

Does it sound like he is ill? Should I take him to a vet? Or is he just stressed out from the various changes in his environment? Should I just leave him be? Please help!!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello and welcome! Sorry you’ve joined under circumstances that have you stressed! But fear not, we are all here to help.

Now I can’t diagnose this being a potential RI, but from the description of his symptoms, like the face scratching and weird gasp behaviour, it does sound like that piece of substrate you removed was potentially the cause of discomfort here and would explain the snot bubble. Again I can’t say for sure, it could be stress, it could be him getting ill.

I would advise keeping the cats away, not necessarily from danger(though that is something to be cautious of) but because the cats hair and dander could well be irritating the tortoise.

Before we get ahead of ourselves thinking him ill, if we could get some more information from you that would be so helpful!

Most importantly what are your temperatures? Ie basking temp?(directly under the bulb) the overall day temps? Night temps?

What lighting/heating is being used? Packaging photos are good, but I understand you may not have them.

Does the tortoise have indoor uv? If so what type? Packaging pic would be great but again don’t worry if not.

How’s the humidity?

What is being used for substrate?

What size is the enclosure?

How’s their diet overall?

Any answers to those questions would be great! Don’t worry if you cant answer all of them, if you could get photos of the full set up, including photos of the lights etc that would be really helpful! And photos of the tortoise🙂

Once I have your reply I can walk you through appropriate set up, equipment and levels, in case you or your partner need to make some adjustments, I can also direct you to a very helpful site diet wise😊

 

[Chefdenoel10]

I am a new tortoise owner taking care of my boyfriend’s russian tortoise while he is away. I have never cared for a reptile before and much of the information I have, I got online or from my boyfriend/his mom. I am not sure how old he is but I know my boyfriend has had him for 17 years. This morning he did not wake me up by moving around in his enclosure, as he usually does when his lights come on in the morning. I was not worried at first, but when I came back from running errands he was partially burrowed under his basking lamp. I took him out and soaked him in water for a little while, and he drank quite a bit. His eyes are shiny and have no mucus or crust. However, I noticed that his nose was runny. There was a snot bubble in one nostril, but he is not wheezing, squeaking, or breathing with his mouth. I am wondering if he may have gotten some dust or a small bit of substrate in his nose while he was burrowed?
He also seemed to be almost scratching at his face, which I have never seen him do before, however I think he is in the process of shedding.
He also keeps opening and closing his mouth, almost like he is biting the air in front of him. It does not seem like he is struggling to breathe.
There was a small piece of substrate that seemed to be stuck in his mouth that I carefully removed with sterilized tweezers, and that seemed to alleviate some of his discomfort, but soon after that he burrowed again, this time all the way underground.
I am terrified that he is ill. I cannot contact my boyfriend as he does not have cell service where he is. I know runny noses in tortoises can be a sign of an upper respiratory disease, and that more signs of this are lethargy and poor appetite.
I let him roam my backyard for awhile yesterday and gave him a pretty big salad of hostas, dandelion greens, mustard greens, and rose petals sprinkled with calcium powder. He ate most of it but it took him a lot longer than usual.
It is worth noting that I interact with him a great deal more than my boyfriend did, as he was at work all day 5 days a week and had gotten used to taking care of the tortoise without fawning over him nonstop. He very well could be stressed out from the change in environment from his house to my house, and with the increased level of activity. I also have 2 cats who don’t really bother him but who like to sit on his enclosure and watch him, whereas my boyfriend’s cat is terrified of him and leaves him alone.

Does it sound like he is ill? Should I take him to a vet? Or is he just stressed out from the various changes in his environment? Should I just leave him be? Please help!!

I agree with little red big red foot.
Get his humidity up….
Keep him warm….
And when it is day time give him a good long soak!
Warm water then When it gets colder
(45 minutes later) change it and make it warm again.
If you can , add some “Pedialite” to the water. “Unflavored”
He also has to get used to the change.
Feed him as usual and sit with him
TALK to him and he will get better ❤️‍🩹
Glad you are HERE and welcome to the forum!
One last thing….
You called it a respiratory DISEASE 🦠
in fact it is NOT a disease it is an INFECTION. Therefore it is FIXABLE.
I hope that takes some of your stress away.?
A disease is something you have for a very loooong time or forever.

God bless and good luck! 🍀👍
Please let us help you so you can have a very long time friend. ❤️🙏

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

The runny nose could either be from irritation or an infection. Stress can make those both worse. Follow @Littleredfootbigredheart and @Chefdenoel10 advice and answer their questions.

Adult tortoises are really though and it sounds like you caught this early! Keep us updated ☺️

 

[jjk2003]

Hello and welcome! Sorry you’ve joined under circumstances that have you stressed! But fear not, we are all here to help.

Now I can’t diagnose this being a potential RI, but from the description of his symptoms, like the face scratching and weird gasp behaviour, it does sound like that piece of substrate you removed was potentially the cause of discomfort here and would explain the snot bubble. Again I can’t say for sure, it could be stress, it could be him getting ill.

I would advise keeping the cats away, not necessarily from danger(though that is something to be cautious of) but because the cats hair and dander could well be irritating the tortoise.

Before we get ahead of ourselves thinking him ill, if we could get some more information from you that would be so helpful!

Most importantly what are your temperatures? Ie basking temp?(directly under the bulb) the overall day temps? Night temps?

What lighting/heating is being used? Packaging photos are good, but I understand you may not have them.

Does the tortoise have indoor uv? If so what type? Packaging pic would be great but again don’t worry if not.

How’s the humidity?

What is being used for substrate?

What size is the enclosure?

How’s their diet overall?

Any answers to those questions would be great! Don’t worry if you cant answer all of them, if you could get photos of the full set up, including photos of the lights etc that would be really helpful! And photos of the tortoise🙂

Once I have your reply I can walk you through appropriate set up, equipment and levels, in case you or your partner need to make some adjustments, I can also direct you to a very helpful site diet wise😊

Thank you so much for your response!!!! I can answer some of your questions but I’m just using the lights/equipment my boyfriend provided, so I do not have the packaging
He has one heat lamp and one UVB lamp, both are on a 12 hr timer (on during the day, off at night) but I have been keeping the heat lamp on at night these past two nights because I read that RIs can be caused by them getting too cold. I am not sure what brand either of them are or what wattage, but I can get temps when I get home from work today.
Substrate is woodchips of some kind, either coconut fiber or regular playground mulch, I can’t tell the difference, but I did read that using woodchip or mulch substrate can increase the risk of them eating it and causing impaction in the GI tract, so I watch him carefully when he eats to make sure he doesnt eat any.
I usually will feed him mustard greens, hostas and occasionally roses, all from my backyard. We do not use pesticides or weed killer.
I sprinkle calcium on his food but I also got him some cuttlebone.
His appetite has been mostly normal, but he ate too fast this morning and choked a little, which also freaked me out, though he seemed to be fine once he kept eating.
I have been keeping the cats out of my room where I keep the tortoise and he does seem to be less stressed.
As for enclosure size, I’m not sure on exact measurements but I’d say maybe 2 and a half by 4 by 2 feet? My estimations are usually awful though. He is small for his species as well.
I will take pictures of the setup when I return home, and I have included a recent pic of Mr. Tortoise.
Thank you so much for your help!!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you for your reply! I can appreciate the position you are in as it’s not your tortoise.

There are a few things that sound a little off with the set up(trust me easily done and this is a judgement free zone!) Im going to give you information on an appropriate indoor set up, this is going to feel like I’m throwing a lot of information at you at once, try not to let it overwhelm you and just take it step by step.
I apologise how lengthy my replies can be, but I want to make sure I’m giving you all the information possible for this little guy to live a long and healthy life with you guys.

I think a lot of this you’ll probably benefit going over your partner with, should either of you have any questions on what’s said, please do ask, don’t feel bad if you need to ask the same questions multiple times, I’m more than happy to break anything down for you!

As adults they need a minimum of an 8x4 foot enclosure, roaming is vital to tortoise health, it aids digestion and strengthens their muscles.
Don’t think they can get away with smaller if allowed to free roam, I’d highly discourage indoor free roams, being away from their heat source means they’re being exposed to temperatures that are too low too often, smooth surfaces like laminate flooring will wreak absolute havoc on their hip joints over time.
There’s just numerous reasons it isn’t a good idea unfortunately, harmful floor cleaners, foreign objects being swallowed, getting stuck under things they shouldn’t like shelving or sofas, low temperatures, no uv, getting hit by doors, one member has mentioned they knew someone who’s tort got their head crushed in a door jam😣, flipping hazards, smooth services, the list goes on and is endless.
They feel most comfortable and safe in a space that best mimics their natural environment, so an appropriate sized enclosure is always the ultimate goal, hopefully we can help🥰

As much as it’s encouraged to have your guy in a safe outdoor enclosure, being from the uk myself, I know how dire our weather is, and that we simply cannot house any tortoise outdoors for long here, an outdoor enclosure is great for them to enjoy on summer days though! I would generally discourage free roaming outside of a safe enclosure, but until something is set up, closely supervise outdoor roams.
Care advice for these guys is painfully behind here, fb pages, YouTube, pet stores, they’re all repeating the same outdated advice, this forum is made of people who have spent years finding the best ways to care for them that actually result in healthy tortoise. There’s every chance your partner has been told outdated care advice from multiple sources, I’ve found it a mind field myself until joining.

I’m going to include some information below on an example of an appropriate indoor set up, it includes the correct levels and equipment etc including the appropriate indoor uv

Basking light should be an incandescent floodlight(example attached) on a 12 hour timer.

Basking temperature directly under the floodlight should be 95-100f. The rest of the enclosure should be ranging 75-80 during the day.

You may also wish to add ambient lighting on the same timer, providing shady areas with hides and safe plants.

Then CHE/CHE’s(ceramic heat emitters) always on a thermostat, for night heat if your house drops below 60’s at night. They are a non light emitting bulb. Set the thermostat for a night temperature place the probe in their cooler end, plug the che into it and the thermostat into the mains, it’ll be plugged in 24/7 but will only turn on when the temperature drops. We’re a cold climate so I think you’ll most likely need these.

The trouble with keeping your heat lamp on is tortoises need complete darkness at night, che bulbs are what work best for night heat. Avoid those red bulbs you can get that are advertised as night bulbs, they should never be used, the red light can make the substrate look like food to tortoise.
If you’re worried about the warmth at night, I understand you wanting to your basking on for now, but do you best to have your partner get a ceramic to install, again always ran on a thermostat.

If the UV bulb looks like a screw in light bulb, it’s not the correct kind of uv.
Uv should be a t5 fluorescent tube, avoid the compact and coil uv bulbs, they don’t give out enough uv and can hurt the tortoises eyes. The uv can be on a 4 hour timer from noon, there’s lots of conflicting information telling people to keep their uv on for 12hours a day, it stems from the thought that as soon as the basking bulb, ie the ‘sun’ comes on, that uv must be on too, fact is UV rays don’t peak till around midday for a few hours, many member have used UV solar meters to confirm this. Tortoises in the wild don’t get blasted with 12hours of UV, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity. I’ve attached examples of the two brands to go for(I personally recommend the Arcadia)and some examples of how to mount them.
Until uv is the correct type, I’m reluctant to advise changing the timing.

With lighting always avoid anything labelled halogen or mercury vapour.

For substrates, either coco coir, dampened and packed down by hand as a base, with a layer of orchid(fir not pine) bark or forest floor on top, or just the orchid bark/forest floor. Never use anything with sand mixed in, no top soils and no kinds of moss. The problem with top soil is unless you’ve composted it yourself, you don’t know what kind of plants have gone into it, it could be something toxic. Sand can irritate the eyes and be an impaction risk, moss is an impaction risk too.
The bark substrates(orchid&forest floor) aren’t as much as an impaction risk because it’s unusual a tortoise would swallow a piece too big to pass.

You want to aim to have the bottom layer of substrate damp, to do this pour lukewarm water into the corners, not loads but enough to dampen the entire bottom layer. To stop that top layer getting a little too dry/dusty, mix the substrate now n then. Check your monitors and substrate to do the pours as and when needed. I recommend having digital monitors that read both temperature and humidity.

I’d personally recommend you make your own base to go as big as you possibly can for the space you have, roaming room is vital for tortoise health. The closer you can get to an 8x4 size the better.

When making your base, just make sure the material is safe, some use flower beds, or take a large bookcase, take out the shelves and lie flat, or just make their own, for all these options I’d line with cheap pond liner to protect the base, making sure the liner goes up the sides too and make sure those sides are deep enough! They can be professional escape artists😂

I’ve also included examples of stands people make/buy to hang their lighting, use a temperature gun to determine how high the basking bulb needs to be, the uv I suggested needs to be mounted 18-20 inches from the substrate. I’d use chains so your lights aren’t just hanging by the wires. Never rely on just the clamp fittings some come with.

For a water dish a shallow terracotta saucer is considered safest, they have grip in the event your tortoise flips themselves, most pet store options are a known hazard.

I’d also always recommend getting your hands on a temp gun, they’re SO handy when setting up a new environment or for checking your monitors are correct🙂you can use them to scan the whole parameter, if you’re worried they’re getting a possible RI, temps are so important.

I’m sorry this looks such a lot to go over, but I promise it’s worth it once you both can get your head round it❤️

Some of the enclosure examples are too small but they’re there to give you an idea🙂

Also you may find this link below useful for some food ideas! In the wildflower section there’s SO many choices that grow great in our climate, you can buy seeds online and plant in organic soil(free of chemicals) in a planter the tortoise doesn’t have access to, and forage from them as they grow😊

The Tortoise Table - Home

The Tortoise Table plant database and resource site for Tortoise owners

www.thetortoisetable.org.uk