Shell rot - what can i do til my appt next Friday

[zovick]

It’s so weird, everywhere I’ve seen so far people seem to use those names interchangeably. When i first found him i used the app “seek” and it said he was an Afghan Tortoise. Then someone said Russian Tortoise. So are those three all actually different breeds of tortoise?

Afghan Tortoises, Horsefield's Tortoises, and Russian Tortoises are all actually just three different common names for the same exact animal. This is one very good reason why using the Latin nomenclature is much less confusing. All three are scientifically known as Agrionemys horsefieldii, and there is no difference between them other than the common names they are called.

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

You will be a lot less frustrated, and your tortoise will be a lot better off if you stop asking all the wrong sources. Pet stores, FB, and almost the entire internet are going to steer you the wrong way. Everything you bought is all the usual wrong stuff. Soil should never be used as substrate. It is made from composted yard waste and it could be toxic or dangerous. The people who make it don't intend for small animals to be living on it.

Those water bowls are dangerous and totally unsuitable for tortoises. The log hide is fine. The "Forest Floor" substrate is okay. The thermometer is useless and unreliable. That enclosure is way too small and not suitable for any tortoise.

If your tortoise does not have access to direct sunshine, then it needs a heat lamp to simulate the sun.

Here is the correct care info with product recommendations that are safe and effective:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

Hi. I was reading your care list last nite. Was very in depth, some i didn’t really understand, so i will re-read it again today. I want to ask tho, was it random that the tortoise you used as the example in the care chart was named Sheldon, or did you add that in there? That made me laugh. I will come back with questions later. Thank you!

 

[Tom]

I want to ask tho, was it random that the tortoise you used as the example in the care chart was named Sheldon, or did you add that in there?

I made that care sheet more than two years ago. I honestly don't remember using a tortoise name, but I'm not surprised that I would have used that one.

I usually recommend people read the whole thing at least twice. Its a lot to take in, and the first reading is often such a surprise compared to other "research" that most people have done.

Questions are always welcome. The care sheet is meant to be a basic introduction to the concepts. There is a lot of room for fine tuning things for each individual housing situation.

 

[Yvonne G]

Common names can be confusing. Afghan tortoise, Steppe tortoise, Russian tortoise and horsfield tortoise are all the same species: Testudo horsfieldii.

The hermanns tortoise is a totally different species: Testudo hermanni.

There are no breeds of tortoises. The word "breed" denotes morphologically different members of the same domestic species, like chickens, cows or dogs. All dogs are the same species, but our tortoises are different species.

. . . and now, just to make you even more confused, "Testudo horsfieldii" is now Agrionemys horsfieldii!!!

 

[Tom]

. . . and now, just to make you even more confused, "Testudo horsfieldii" is now Agrionemys horsfieldii!!!

I thought so too, but NO! "They" changed it back again to the original! It is still Testudo. Or... It is once again Testudo...

Small victories like this make me happy.

 

[zovick]

I thought so too, but NO! "They" changed it back again to the original! It is still Testudo. Or... It is once again Testudo...

Small victories like this make me happy.

Well, whichever Latin genus name is currently being used most properly (Testudo or Agrionemys), they are both identifying exactly the same tortoise species (horsefieldii) which has those three common names (Afghan Tortoise, Russian Tortoise, and Horsefield's Tortoise).

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

I thought so too, but NO! "They" changed it back again to the original! It is still Testudo. Or... It is once again Testudo...

Small victories like this make me happy.

Who are “they”? Kind of like how there is a “grammar committee” out there that keeps changing the rules of grammar 🤦🏻‍♀️ Oxford vs regular comma, how to cite research in your paper, and in the bibliography, etc. As soon as you get it straight they change it again! 😡

This is Sheldon’s pool, currently. As soon as i moved it out of the garage to let sunshine hit it he walked right over into the sun and hung out, maybe for 20min, then he crawled back under his box. But i was super excited tho cos on his way back he was actually raised up on his toes (??) instead of dragging his belly along the pool. I did check out his belly again today, and made myself touch that weird peach-colored spot. It’s hard, but you can see that the outer layer of his shell (the black) has kind of flaked off. I don’t know if that is normal/okay? And the back of his shell (i will learn the correct terminologies soon) isn’t exactly smooth. It has some sharp edges in different places. Is that normal? Maybe he is growing? I don’t know. Also, in the second photo you can see the little triangular spot where his shell seems to have broken off. I don’t know if that is normal or something to also worry about?

I have been thinking about enclosures. Do you think if I keep him in the pool during the day and move him to the hutch at nite, that will be okay? That way he has room to wander around while he is awake and will be in the hutch at nite. Both will be out on the lanai, but if it’s cold outside (Dec/Jan/Feb) at night i can bring the hutch inside so he will be warm enough. Obvi I’ll have substrate in both, etc. I will put substrate in the pool soon. I just want to make sure his belly is ok first (unless you think it’s okay to put it in now?). Soooo many questions! Also, I read all over the internet that he should eat 5 days and fast for two. Is this correct? He was starving today so i gave him a hibiscus, but his fast days are usually Saturday & Sunday. I just don’t want him to get far, or stretch out his shell, etc. and i also read that tortoises in captive do tend to overeat because the food is readily available.

Thank you! 🙂

 

[wellington]

Who are “they”? Kind of like how there is a “grammar committee” out there that keeps changing the rules of grammar 🤦🏻‍♀️ Oxford vs regular comma, how to cite research in your paper, and in the bibliography, etc. As soon as you get it straight they change it again! 😡

This is Sheldon’s pool, currently. As soon as i moved it out of the garage to let sunshine hit it he walked right over into the sun and hung out, maybe for 20min, then he crawled back under his box. But i was super excited tho cos on his way back he was actually raised up on his toes (??) instead of dragging his belly along the pool. I did check out his belly again today, and made myself touch that weird peach-colored spot. It’s hard, but you can see that the outer layer of his shell (the black) has kind of flaked off. I don’t know if that is normal/okay? And the back of his shell (i will learn the correct terminologies soon) isn’t exactly smooth. It has some sharp edges in different places. Is that normal? Maybe he is growing? I don’t know. Also, in the second photo you can see the little triangular spot where his shell seems to have broken off. I don’t know if that is normal or something to also worry about?

I have been thinking about enclosures. Do you think if I keep him in the pool during the day and move him to the hutch at nite, that will be okay? That way he has room to wander around while he is awake and will be in the hutch at nite. Both will be out on the lanai, but if it’s cold outside (Dec/Jan/Feb) at night i can bring the hutch inside so he will be warm enough. Obvi I’ll have substrate in both, etc. I will put substrate in the pool soon. I just want to make sure his belly is ok first (unless you think it’s okay to put it in now?). Soooo many questions! Also, I read all over the internet that he should eat 5 days and fast for two. Is this correct? He was starving today so i gave him a hibiscus, but his fast days are usually Saturday & Sunday. I just don’t want him to get far, or stretch out his shell, etc. and i also read that tortoises in captive do tend to overeat because the food is readily available.

Thank you! 🙂

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No that is not right to only eat 5 days. Please stop reading the internet and stick to this forum. All the correct info is right here on this forum! Forget everything you have read unless you read it on this forum.
I would not leave him on the plastic, it's bad for his legs as I stated in my other post. Put paper towels down or keep him in the hutch enclosure until healed.
Also think about building a proper size enclosure which needs to be a 4x8 foot.

 

[Donna Albu]

BY the way, your tortoise is an escape artist, so a screened lid that he cannot push up would be a good addition, My granddaughter purchased one, had it in a container up on her kitchen counter. The first Monday that she had Tortellini, she came home for lunch and he was gone! She searched all over the house (She has 2 dogs. One isn't trustworthy, so she gets kenneled when Robin's not home, and to sleep at night). Robin was heartbroken, but had to go back to work. That evening, still looking, she saw movement over by the dog door. There was Tortellini, making his way to the great outdoors. After checking him over (no damage), she put him back in his enclosure, and immediately he climbed up onto a log and started to reach over the edge to get out again. He doesn't live in that enclosure any more, and has a bigger one with a lid framed with heavy wood. He's also fast, so if you take him outside for a sun bath, keep your eye on him every second!

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

BY the way, your tortoise is an escape artist, so a screened lid that he cannot push up would be a good addition, My granddaughter purchased one, had it in a container up on her kitchen counter. The first Monday that she had Tortellini, she came home for lunch and he was gone! She searched all over the house (She has 2 dogs. One isn't trustworthy, so she gets kenneled when Robin's not home, and to sleep at night). Robin was heartbroken, but had to go back to work. That evening, still looking, she saw movement over by the dog door. There was Tortellini, making his way to the great outdoors. After checking him over (no damage), she put him back in his enclosure, and immediately he climbed up onto a log and started to reach over the edge to get out again. He doesn't live in that enclosure any more, and has a bigger one with a lid framed with heavy wood. He's also fast, so if you take him outside for a sun bath, keep your eye on him every second!

Oh gosh!! What a sneaky lil guy! Im glad she found him and that he was okay!

All: I’m picking up the orchid bark today…and a thermometer/humidity gizmo. And i got him the terracotta food & water bowls. I will be contacting chewy to try and send most of that stuff back.

i will get his enclosures set up today. Also, that’s why his food and water are in the middle of the pool. I didn’t want him climbing up on anything to sneak out!

Im glad you told me about the food too. I’ll make sure to feed him every day now. Also I will check into making a lid for the pool.

 

[zolasmum]

Oh gosh!! What a sneaky lil guy! Im glad she found him and that he was okay!

All: I’m picking up the orchid bark today…and a thermometer/humidity gizmo. And i got him the terracotta food & water bowls. I will be contacting chewy to try and send most of that stuff back.

i will get his enclosures set up today. Also, that’s why his food and water are in the middle of the pool. I didn’t want him climbing up on anything to sneak out!

Im glad you told me about the food too. I’ll make sure to feed him every day now. Also I will check into making a lid for the pool.

You are obviously going to be a very caring and loving parent to this little chap, and he is lucky you found him. Don't get too anxious about getting everything just right all at once - it will take time to learn what suits both best. But , as other people have said, take no notice of anyone who tries to tell you what you should do - only trust the care sheets here, and what people here say - they will help you whenever you need it.
Angie

 

[Tonyo]

Hi! Thank you for responding.

My concern is about the bald spot that is on his chest/belly. The big peach spot. It is right under his head (you can’t see his head cos he was mad cos i was holding him up) but that spot wasn’t there before. It was all shell, like rear of the other dark parts. I didn’t touch it…I’m afraid….so i don’t know if it’s soft or not.

I just gave him another soak/bath cos earlier he pee’d while he was eating, and then laid in it 🤦🏻‍♀️

Now i just noticed that he seems to be kind of dripping some clear slimy stuff, the consistency of raw egg white. His urine earlier had the white goopy stuff and was the right consistency, but when he is walking around he is leaving a trail of this kinda slime. (Like a snail.)

He is still eating like a champ tho, so i guess that’s good. Oddly he didn’t eat his hibiscus today, but he ate the romaine, a couple of bites of a spinach leaf, and some shredded carrots. Just now he ate another piece of Romaine that was still in the food dish. Then he crawled over to his little box shelter thing and made digging noises til he went to sleep. He sleeps with his head, arms, and legs out…i read that means he is comfortable and feel safe. 🤞

Look up what to feed him on this web sight told not to feed lettuce or spinach I use kale pac Choi the odd grape tomato and a bit of cucumber good sight on this page for food suggestions cutle fish bone helps with calcium and sharpening of beak mine crunch it good luck great creatures be happy

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Look up what to feed him on this web sight told not to feed lettuce or spinach I use kale pac Choi the odd grape tomato and a bit of cucumber good sight on this page for food suggestions cutle fish bone helps with calcium and sharpening of beak mine crunch it good luck great creatures be happy

I learned the hard way that cucumbers were NOT an everyday food 😳 i made my boy soo sick, OMG! I’m my head i was soooo afraid he would get dehydrated i was giving g him 1-2 cycle slices a day. He gobbled them up, but omg, poor guy had tortoise diarrhea for a full day. All i did was clean up his pool all day. That’s when i realized how small his tummy probably is and he didn’t need 8-8oz glasses/day, like us.

He LOVES romaine. I don’t give him iceberg. je doesn’t seem to like arugula. He’s eaten 1 1/2 spinach leaves ever. Not really his thing. He also loves shredded carrots, so he gets a pinch of those on most days. Today i bought organic kale to see if he will eat that. He turned his nose up at it when i put it on his plate, but we’ll see
I’m the morning of he really doesn’t like it. I did give him a strawberry 2 days in the very beginning. The first day he ate that first. You could see he was in Heaven…but the 2nd day he didn’t touch it, and by then i realized that fruit had too much sugar anyway, so no more strawberries. I’m actually contemplating growing him different lettuces and kale, etc., but first i want to make sure he will eat them. I also noticed today at home depot that i could buy one chunk of St Augustine did, so now I’m thinking about that too. My yard is mostly st Augustine grass, but so far he’s never eaten it when I’ve put it on his plate. Oddly there are no dandelions here, so I’m going to have to grow them, which seems completely insane considering how hard my grandmother always worked to eradicate them from her garden and yard. LoL

I’m still testing different foods with him from the accepted foods list. So far he is VERY finicky and spoiled, but we’ll figure it out, I’m sure.

 

[Tom]

I learned the hard way that cucumbers were NOT an everyday food 😳 i made my boy soo sick, OMG! I’m my head i was soooo afraid he would get dehydrated i was giving g him 1-2 cycle slices a day. He gobbled them up, but omg, poor guy had tortoise diarrhea for a full day. All i did was clean up his pool all day. That’s when i realized how small his tummy probably is and he didn’t need 8-8oz glasses/day, like us.

He LOVES romaine. I don’t give him iceberg. je doesn’t seem to like arugula. He’s eaten 1 1/2 spinach leaves ever. Not really his thing. He also loves shredded carrots, so he gets a pinch of those on most days. Today i bought organic kale to see if he will eat that. He turned his nose up at it when i put it on his plate, but we’ll see
I’m the morning of he really doesn’t like it. I did give him a strawberry 2 days in the very beginning. The first day he ate that first. You could see he was in Heaven…but the 2nd day he didn’t touch it, and by then i realized that fruit had too much sugar anyway, so no more strawberries. I’m actually contemplating growing him different lettuces and kale, etc., but first i want to make sure he will eat them. I also noticed today at home depot that i could buy one chunk of St Augustine did, so now I’m thinking about that too. My yard is mostly st Augustine grass, but so far he’s never eaten it when I’ve put it on his plate. Oddly there are no dandelions here, so I’m going to have to grow them, which seems completely insane considering how hard my grandmother always worked to eradicate them from her garden and yard. LoL

I’m still testing different foods with him from the accepted foods list. So far he is VERY finicky and spoiled, but we’ll figure it out, I’m sure.

Cucumbers don't make them sick or give them diarrhea, they just aren't very nutritious, they lack fiber, and they are low in calcium.

Lettuce is not a good for either. Grow good tortoise foods, not grocery store fare. He should be eating broadleaf weeds, leaves and flowers of the right types.

Carrots are too high in sugar and should not be fed to him.

Any new food will take weeks or months to introduce. In most cases they won't eat any new food that is plopped in front of them the first few times they see it. You have to mince up some of the new stuff and mix it in with the old favorite stuff. Start with hardly any at first.

If you must use grocery store foods, it needs to be amended to make it more suitable.

Please read this:

The Best Way To Raise Any Temperate Species Of Tortoise

I chose the title of this care sheet very carefully. Are there other ways to raise babies and care for adults? Yes. Yes there are, but those ways are not as good. What follows is the BEST way, according to 30 years of research and experimentation with hundreds of babies of many species. What is...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

Good news! I just ordered the broadleaf seeds from tortoisesupply.com, so soon I’ll be growing appropriate Sheldon- foods! 🙂

 

[zovick]

Who are “they”? Kind of like how there is a “grammar committee” out there that keeps changing the rules of grammar 🤦🏻‍♀️ Oxford vs regular comma, how to cite research in your paper, and in the bibliography, etc. As soon as you get it straight they change it again! 😡

This is Sheldon’s pool, currently. As soon as i moved it out of the garage to let sunshine hit it he walked right over into the sun and hung out, maybe for 20min, then he crawled back under his box. But i was super excited tho cos on his way back he was actually raised up on his toes (??) instead of dragging his belly along the pool. I did check out his belly again today, and made myself touch that weird peach-colored spot. It’s hard, but you can see that the outer layer of his shell (the black) has kind of flaked off. I don’t know if that is normal/okay? And the back of his shell (i will learn the correct terminologies soon) isn’t exactly smooth. It has some sharp edges in different places. Is that normal? Maybe he is growing? I don’t know. Also, in the second photo you can see the little triangular spot where his shell seems to have broken off. I don’t know if that is normal or something to also worry about?

I have been thinking about enclosures. Do you think if I keep him in the pool during the day and move him to the hutch at nite, that will be okay? That way he has room to wander around while he is awake and will be in the hutch at nite. Both will be out on the lanai, but if it’s cold outside (Dec/Jan/Feb) at night i can bring the hutch inside so he will be warm enough. Obvi I’ll have substrate in both, etc. I will put substrate in the pool soon. I just want to make sure his belly is ok first (unless you think it’s okay to put it in now?). Soooo many questions! Also, I read all over the internet that he should eat 5 days and fast for two. Is this correct? He was starving today so i gave him a hibiscus, but his fast days are usually Saturday & Sunday. I just don’t want him to get far, or stretch out his shell, etc. and i also read that tortoises in captive do tend to overeat because the food is readily available.

Thank you! 🙂

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"They" are the taxonomists, scientists who look very closely at scale, shell, and bone morphology to decide into what genus, species, and sometimes subspecies, chelonians should be placed. Occasionally, their opinions change and animals are "re-classified" into different genera, species, etc.

These scientific types may sometimes have slightly different opinions which can result in taxonomic changes from time to time, depending upon whose opinion is valued more highly by the scientific community at the time their work is published.

Whether the Russian, Afghan, or Horsefield's Tortoises are a species which belongs in the genus Testudo or morphologically deserves its own genus (Agrionemys) could be a matter of discussion for these folks for a while and could change back and forth over time, IMHO.

 

[zovick]

"They" are the taxonomists, scientists who look very closely at scale, shell, and bone morphology to decide into what genus, species, and sometimes subspecies, chelonians should be placed. Occasionally, their opinions change and animals are "re-classified" into different genera, species, etc.

These scientific types may sometimes have slightly different opinions which can result in taxonomic changes from time to time, depending upon whose opinion is valued more highly by the scientific community at the time their work is published.

Whether the Russian, Afghan, or Horsefield's Tortoises are a species which belongs in the genus Testudo or morphologically deserves its own genus (Agrionemys) could be a matter of discussion for these folks for a while and could change back and forth over time, IMHO.

And as long as you know the correct species of the tortoise you have, and you do now, which genus name is being used or accepted more commonly by the scientific community is rather unimportant and inconsequential. Again, IMHO.

 

[Sheldon’s Mama]

"They" are the taxonomists, scientists who look very closely at scale, shell, and bone morphology to decide into what genus, species, and sometimes subspecies, chelonians should be placed. Occasionally, their opinions change and animals are "re-classified" into different genera, species, etc.

These scientific types may sometimes have slightly different opinions which can result in taxonomic changes from time to time, depending upon whose opinion is valued more highly by the scientific community at the time their work is published.

Whether the Russian, Afghan, or Horsefield's Tortoises are a species which belongs in the genus Testudo or morphologically deserves its own genus (Agrionemys) could be a matter of discussion for these folks for a while and could change back and forth over time, IMHO.

Whatever keeps them busy! 😂

 

[Theia]

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I bought all of this. I can’t seem to get a straight answer about the soil tho, if it’s okay to use or not. Someone yesterday told me about the coco coir. I have to go get that, but can i use what i bought in the mean time?

Also I’m in central FL, so i don’t really use a heat lamp or anything. When i wake up (this past week anyway since he’s been in the garage) I’ve been opening the garage, so he gets the light. It’s still pretty warm here in the day. Down to low 70s at nite.

Do you think i need to get the uvb light and heat lamp? Sometimes i wonder if i should have just set him free after the storm. The problem is he is non-native to this area, so i felt bad. Plus, I’m already attached to him now. 😂🐢

Russians liketo burrow so top soil is best maybe half and half side s with orchid bark