Too big? Too small? Just right?

abbieeemarron

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A000D219-3305-4D8C-9BA7-DB144949F5E2.jpeg I have two Herman tortoises both hatched in the same year (2015) however one is massively bigger than the other (see pic).
Tortoise 1 is 387g, 12.4cm carpice
Tortoise 2 is 177g, 9.4cm carpice
According the Jackson ratio they are both healthy and they are both certainly happy. They’ve had a vet check up and they agree they’re healthy and there are a number of reasons they may be so different in size such as:
1) one is bred from tortoises in colder climates, whilst the other more Mediterranean
2) the small one has tortoise herpes when young and so is stunted in its growth
3) one is a boy and one is a girl
4) one was bred overseas and brought to the UK whilst the other is UK bred (similar premise to option 1)

So my question is, what are your thoughts? Has anyone else had this? Does anyone have any advice?

Thanks!
 

Wright78

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That could be the reason. One tortoise could be bulling the other. It could be getting to the food first, sitting in the food dish, getting the best basking spot, pushing, biting. Tortoises are solitary animals, they don't need a companion.
 

ZEROPILOT

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A pair of any tortoises kept together will develop the same way.
One will be dominant and one will be submissive and not thrive as well.
Separation will be required in a short period of time
Sorry for the bad news.
Tortoises should never be kept as pairs.
Or allowed to roam inside of your home. But that's another issue.
 

abbieeemarron

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That could be the reason. One tortoise could be bulling the other. It could be getting to the food first, sitting in the food dish, getting the best basking spot, pushing, biting. Tortoises are solitary animals, they don't need a companion.

I have thought of this and kept a close eye on it. The smaller mostly eats first allowing the larger to go in when it is don- I also have two locations for food to accommodate if one is blocking the food. I have added an additional heat source (not a basking lamp however) so both are kept warm in case the basking spot issue you mentioned is happening. Also kept an eye on bullying and haven’t seen any evidence of this (of course I don’t watch 24/7)
 

abbieeemarron

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A pair of any tortoises kept together will develop the same way.
One will be dominant and one will be submissive and not thrive as well.
Separation will be required in a short period of time
Sorry for the bad news.
Tortoises should never be kept as pairs.
Or allowed to roam inside of your home. But that's another issue.

Thanks for the comment. I am aware they will need separating and am in the process of coming up with a viable solution to do this. In terms of being dominate/submissive, I genuinely feel the smaller one is dominant (not to give excuses just a genuine observation).
In terms of being kept in pairs - is it true that if one is male and the other female, it is possible to keep them along side other females? Is it just two tortoises that are a potential issue together? Or any number?
 

abbieeemarron

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Thanks for the comment. I am aware they will need separating and am in the process of coming up with a viable solution to do this. In terms of being dominate/submissive, I genuinely feel the smaller one is dominant (not to give excuses just a genuine observation).
In terms of being kept in pairs - is it true that if one is male and the other female, it is possible to keep them along side other females? Is it just two tortoises that are a potential issue together? Or any number?

Also they do not roam inside my home. I took them out for the purposes of the photo angle in order to demonstrate their size
 

wellington

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Thanks for the comment. I am aware they will need separating and am in the process of coming up with a viable solution to do this. In terms of being dominate/submissive, I genuinely feel the smaller one is dominant (not to give excuses just a genuine observation).
In terms of being kept in pairs - is it true that if one is male and the other female, it is possible to keep them along side other females? Is it just two tortoises that are a potential issue together? Or any number?
Get them separated and then see if the smaller one starts to put on more size. The bullying that can happen is not always noticeable specially if your fairly new to tortoises. Heck even your vets didnt give you a heads up about keeping pairs together.
It could also be a Male female size difference and that's a bigger reason to get them separated so the female isnt bred to death.
 

ZEROPILOT

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Thanks for the comment. I am aware they will need separating and am in the process of coming up with a viable solution to do this. In terms of being dominate/submissive, I genuinely feel the smaller one is dominant (not to give excuses just a genuine observation).
In terms of being kept in pairs - is it true that if one is male and the other female, it is possible to keep them along side other females? Is it just two tortoises that are a potential issue together? Or any number?
If you have the space, groups can work.
Ideally a group would be 1 Male and at least 3 females.
 

Yvonne G

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I have thought of this and kept a close eye on it. The smaller mostly eats first allowing the larger to go in when it is don- I also have two locations for food to accommodate if one is blocking the food. I have added an additional heat source (not a basking lamp however) so both are kept warm in case the basking spot issue you mentioned is happening. Also kept an eye on bullying and haven’t seen any evidence of this (of course I don’t watch 24/7)
You don't always actually see overt signs of bullying. I call it mental bullying. You know how your dog just seems to know when you're about to get ready to go someplace? In my case, it was putting on my lipstick. As soon as I went in the bathroom and opened the lipstick drawer, the dog would get all excited and tell me she's ready to go bye bye. Mental. Tortoises don't always show what they're thinking. But they really can read each others' minds. The mere fact that one of your tortoises is not growing as nicely as the other is a sure sign of mental bullying. He needs his own space.
 
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