Two owner dilemma?

[Alaskamike]

If I were the shelter " decider". I would call both parties in for a discussion.

To include
- how long each had the tortoise and when they first had him
- I would ask each person to defend / explain why they believe the tortoise should go back to them
- ask how he is kept and what measures will be taken to keep him safe
- do some quality of life / environment assessment of each.

After a good discussion it would be pretty apparent where the tort should go.

Honestly , neither person at this point has primary claim without debate.

Let each make their case - then decide. Is it a small claims court case ? Maybe , depends on how adamant each is and reasonable.
Mediation is certainly advised.

 

[dmmj]

I tend to agree with Tom despite having so little of the story, about those 'escapes', which could have been pranksters, thievery, or some other foolery, not just poor enclosure security. I have to consider if they cared enough, any of them, they would have blanketed the area with lost posters and let animal control know, even local cops who patrol and might see it.

When my cat was pushed out while I was on an out of country vacation, the other house-mates all went silent and if not for the fear-of-Will I put in them it might have never been sorted out. My cat was taken some undisclosed distance away, but found his way back, Cats aren't tortoises, I know, but I left nothing to chance and put up fliers, checked all the shelters within several miles and bugged all my neighbors. If you care everyone within a reasonable distance will know by your own effort.

I don't know how the might help Greg come to any conclusion, but a history of attempted recovery from escape would weigh heavily.

would you classify it as tomfoolery?

 

[Lyn W]

If I were the shelter " decider". I would call both parties in for a discussion.

To include
- how long each had the tortoise and when they first had him
- I would ask each person to defend / explain why they believe the tortoise should go back to them
- ask how he is kept and what measures will be taken to keep him safe
- do some quality of life / environment assessment of each.

After a good discussion it would be pretty apparent where the tort should go.

Honestly , neither person at this point has primary claim without debate.

Let each make their case - then decide. Is it a small claims court case ? Maybe , depends on how adamant each is and reasonable.
Mediation is certainly advised.

I would hope a home visit to both homes to actually see how he would be housed would be on the cards too.

 

[Tom]

So let me get this straight…

If I leave my car somewhere with the keys in it, and say I blacked out and couldn't remember where for some reason. You find the car, don't find the owner and drive it around for a few months. Then one day you somehow lose the car.

While looking for my car, I discover it down at the impound lot. I try to finally get my car back, but you think it should somehow be your car now since you found it and were driving it around for a while? And the "authorities" might agree with you? This is crazy.

The person who paid for the tortoise originally owns the tortoise. Plain and simple. Whether we like them or think they are a responsible owner has nothing to do with who legally owns this property. If person number #1 found the tortoise in person #2's backyard being showered with love by a lovely loving family, its still person #1s tortoise. It was nice of person #2 to offer food, shelter and care to someone else's found tortoise for two years, but that doesn't make it their tortoise.

 

[Prairie Mom]

So let me get this straight…

If I leave my car somewhere with the keys in it, and say I blacked out and couldn't remember where for some reason. You find the car, don't find the owner and drive it around for a few months. Then one day you somehow lose the car.

I'm obviously so biased that I should just let everyone else debate it out. BUT-I've been looking into this a little and thankfully many states are adopting laws that do view this as a more complex situation than forgetting where you parked.

Here's a website about dogs that poses some good questions and interesting answers surrounding this topic... https://www.animallaw.info/intro/lost-dogs

 

[Prairie Mom]

Since I posted about my tortoise earlier...
It is very likely that my tortoise was abandoned and this situation would never apply. We found her in a snowy road in 29*F and may have actually seen the person ditching her. My main concern has been whether or not she was stolen from her owner.

If her owner showed up now out of the blue, we would be in a situation that is similar to what is being described in this thread. Our family wouldn't be willing to let her go (again, unless she was stolen from a loving home). Just out of curiosity, I've been looking into our State's "animal at large" laws and it looks very likely that we would have a great case for maintaining ownership. I do want to put in a call to our animal control and confirm that one or two things were handled as they should have been.

Also-There is even a chance that the previous owner could be prosecuted for animal cruelty. My State has decent laws for pets (sorry livestock, you're screwed).

You might find this statute interesting:
"(b) A person commits cruelty to animals if he has the charge and custody of
any animal and unnecessarily fails to provide it with the proper food, drink or
protection from the weather, or cruelly abandons the animal, or in the case of
immediate, obvious, serious illness or injury, fails to provide the animal with
appropriate care."

 

[Tom]

I'm obviously so biased that I should just let everyone else debate it out. BUT-I've been looking into this a little and thankfully many states are adopting laws that do view this as a more complex situation than forgetting where you parked.

Here's a website about dogs that poses some good questions and interesting answers surrounding this topic... https://www.animallaw.info/intro/lost-dogs

I doubt this will be an issue for you because I doubt your tortoise will be out wandering the streets and picked up by animal control.

Further, about this pictorial proof offered by person number two in the OP. A sulcata is a sulcata. They change in appearance over time. If you took one of mine for two years and then showed it to me again, there is no way I could say with 100% certainty that it was mine. Unless it had some sort of distinct scar or a particularly unusual split scute or deformity of some sort.

 

[Prairie Mom]

I doubt this will be an issue for you because I doubt your tortoise will be out wandering the streets and picked up by animal control.

Further, about this pictorial proof offered by person number two in the OP. A sulcata is a sulcata. They change in appearance over time. If you took one of mine for two years and then showed it to me again, there is no way I could say with 100% certainty that it was mine. Unless it had some sort of distinct scar or a particularly unusual split scute or deformity of some sort.

Good points. The photos would be interesting to know more about.