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What's in that leaf, grocery and garden, published nutrient list.

Discussion in 'Tortoise Diet and Food' started by Will, Nov 1, 2017.

  1. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Plantain the weedy plant, not the banana like thing

    https://www.feedipedia.org/node/114

    One thing I notice the crazy good C: P ratio and the high potassium. I have heard concern regarding high potassium in the diets of long lived iguanas, (Caribbean Cyclura). To some extent based on wild diets for those lizards. They too are long lived (60 years plus). Are any of you tortoise diet folks aware of this nutrient as a stand alone or in combination with other nutrients causing some kind of issue when found in higher proportion diet items???

    The specific regard was that potassium might also create an unfavorable calcium utility. I also consider that maybe the person who expressed the concern flipflopped Potassium with Phosphorus? Anyone that can share something on this please do.
    KevinGG and Bambam1989 like this.
  2. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Arugula A pretty decent C: P ratio https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3569?manu=&fgcd=&ds= High vitamin A and K as well.

    I notice when I don't feed it for several days and then it rotates back in to the mix, the Egyptians and Pancakes seem enthused to get it. It's one of my favorite greens too.
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  3. Bambam1989

    Bambam1989 Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any info on nipplewort and deadnettle?
  4. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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  5. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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  6. Via Infinito

    Via Infinito Member

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    Hello please I need information on Pintoi Peanut ( a type of grass) and Axonopus Compressus!
  7. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Great suggestions! :p

    Arachis pintoi Pinto peanut
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachis_pintoi wow, very interesting history

    https://www.feedipedia.org/node/702 it has a 15: 1 C: P ratio, that alone is pretty darn good.


    Axonopus compressus a forage grass
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axonopus_compressus low growing shade tolerant grass, wow, another good plant to consider

    https://www.feedipedia.org/node/498 about a 2:1 C; P ratio, so good enough to have something in a shaded area.
  8. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin 10 Year Member! Platinum Supporter

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    None of my tortoises like it. I was assuming because of the pungent scent.
  9. Via Infinito

    Via Infinito Member

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    Thank you so much! These two are the main bulk of my tortoise diet so now I know it is grazing on the good stuff
  10. Bambam1989

    Bambam1989 Well-Known Member

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    How about nasturtium, snapdragons, and pansies?
    Just got a bunch of seeds for this spring
    *doing the happy gardener dance*
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  11. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Tropaeolum aka nasturtium

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropaeolum all parts are edible

    TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=258&c=5#.Wk-0ZVWnFaQ Edible, but high in oxalic acid, so feed in moderation. My take on oxalic acid is that it is not a concern in a highly varied diet.

    USDA https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...lookup=nasturtium&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

    calls it watercress and provides a nutrient breakdown. The Wiki page's first paragraph sheds understanding on this.

    Antirrhinum aka Snap Dragons

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antirrhinum no comment on nutrients, but not comment regarding toxicity either. Has anti-inflammatory properties.

    TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/search/? searchtogglestatus=&searchchoice=exactwords&searchtxt=Antirrhinum&x=11&y=9#.Wk-2S1WnFaQ safe to feed

    Pansies

    wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansy

    TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/...actwords&searchtxt=pansy&x=9&y=7#.Wk-3wVWnFaQ safe to feed

    Many plants cultivated for garden flowers do not have actual nutrient content list that I can find. Just a dichotomy of poisonous or not
    poisonous. The often best place to find warning is in herbal medicine pages, where the text is a cut and paste from somewhere else with no reference.

  12. RosemaryDW

    RosemaryDW Well-Known Member TFO Supporter

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    How about grape leaves? They’re good but just how good?
  13. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Vitus vinifera Grape leaves and shoots

    Feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/512 C: P is 7:1.5 (that's good, no great), protein at about 9%, and high fiber.

    Be sure to look at information in both the 2nd and third tab of each account that I post from Feedipedia.

    TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=138&c=4#.Wk_vAVWnFaQ feed in moderation the leaves, no fruit.

    USDA https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3582?manu=&fgcd=&ds= similar to Feedipedia

    I have found palate-ability to be high, especially with younger leaves and shoot tips. But even old dropped leaves can offer fiber to balance the lack of it in grocery greens like Romaine.

    This is some text from Feedipedia
    "Grape leaves and vine shoots are relatively poor in protein and rich in fibre. Grape leaves have a better protein content (7-14% of DM) than vine shoots (3-7% of DM), and a lower fibre content (ADF 18-39% vs. 25-57% of DM). Vine shoots are particularly rich in lignin (10-25% of DM). The protein content of vine shoots declines rapidly after the grape harvest: shoots collected at harvest had twice the protein content of those collected 30 days after harvest (6.2 vs. 3.0% of DM) (Kok et al., 2007). Storage affects the fibre content. In fresh vine shoots or those stored outside for up to 8 months, crude fibre increased from about 38-39% for the first 3 months to 42-45% of DM for the remaining period. Lignin increased gradually from about 10 to 20% of DM or more during the last 3 months (Tartari et al., 1979a)."

    AND

    "Grapes leaves and shoots contain high and variable amounts of condensed tannins that may impair digestibility. Condensed tannins bind to plant proteins and cell wall carbohydrates thereby decreasing protein and fibre digestibility (Waghorn, 2008). However, tannins may have beneficial effects such as increasing by-pass protein in ruminants and decreasing gas production, thus reducing gas emissions (Makkar, 2003). Tannins that have been reported to reduce palatability in some forages do not appear to have a negative effect on the intake of grape leaves by sheep (Romero et al., 2000). Grape leaves have been reported to contain 2-10% of DM as condensed tannins (Gurbuz, 2007; Kamalak, 2005; Romero et al., 2000)."
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  14. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    dombeya

    TTT not listed
    Feedipedia not listed
    USDA not listed

    https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/plantox/detail.cfm?id=2764 A Poisonous plant list.

    COMMON NAME:
    STANDARD COMMON NAME:
    FAMILY: Malvaceae
    LATIN NAME: Dombeya nairobensis Engl.
    STANDARD PLANT NAME: Dombeya nairobensis Engl.

    COMMON NAME: dombeya
    STANDARD COMMON NAME:
    FAMILY: Sterculiaceae
    LATIN NAME: Dombeya elegans
    STANDARD PLANT NAME: Dombeya elegans K. Schum.
    No comment about how or why it is poisonous. The second fda citation uses the current latin Family name.

    It seems risky!
  15. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    On the contrary...

    Pieris japonica, the Japanese andromeda

    https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/plantox/detail.cfm?id=21737
    AUTHOR(S): Pizzi, R.; Goodman, G.; GunnMoore, D.; Meredith, A.; Keeble, E.
    TITLE: Pieris japonica intoxication in an African spurred tortoise (Geochelone sulcata).
    YEAR: 2005 CITATION: Vet Rec, 156(15), 487-488 [English]
    FDA #: NA

    Full text https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.e...=Pieris_japonica_intoxication_in_an_Afric.pdf

    TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/...twords&searchtxt=Pieris&x=10&y=7#.WlVQKq6nFaQ DO NOT FEED
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  16. Yvonne G

    Yvonne G Old Timer TFO Admin 10 Year Member! Platinum Supporter

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    @Will - can you find info on weeds? I'm curious about filaree.
  17. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Erodium cicutarium, also known as redstem filaree, redstem stork's bill, common stork's-bill or pinweed.

    Feedipedia lists two species from this genus.

    https://www.feedipedia.org/node/158 AND
    https://www.feedipedia.org/node/159

    neither of which is the species from the wiki page

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erodium_cicutarium

    TTT shows two species, one with a 'sparingly' sign and one with a feed sign. http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/...twords&searchtxt=filaree&x=0&y=0#.Wle_x66nFaQ


    Based on the feedipedia accounts they are nutritionally near identical. The C: P ratio is about 5:1 so no worries there. It tastes good based on my own palate. I imagine more than the potential of fish killing saponins that TTT has mentioned as their 'sparingly" caution - that the dry seeds could be hard to swallow if they got into the feeding path of a tortoises.
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  18. TammyJ

    TammyJ Well-Known Member

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    Any info on Sea Grape? The Caribbean Cyclura love it (the fruit, not too sure about the leaves).
  19. MichaelaW

    MichaelaW Well-Known Member

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    That grows like crazy here on the south Texas Mexico border!
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  20. Will

    Will Well-Known Member 5 Year Member

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    Coccoloba uvifera or Sea Grape
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccoloba_uvifera

    "Suitable for human consumption"
    http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/database/documents/pdf/tree_fact_sheets/cocuvia.pdf

    Many sources and recipes for making use of the fruit for human consumption and observations that cattle eat it, but no detail on it's nutrient value for cattle or other hoof-stock let alone rabbits or chickens etc.

    I've seen Iguanas eat it in Puerto Rico.
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