What's in that leaf, grocery and garden, published nutrient list.

Kapidolo Farms

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Plantain the weedy plant, not the banana like thing

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/114

One thing I notice the crazy good C: P ratio and the high potassium. I have heard concern regarding high potassium in the diets of long lived iguanas, (Caribbean Cyclura). To some extent based on wild diets for those lizards. They too are long lived (60 years plus). Are any of you tortoise diet folks aware of this nutrient as a stand alone or in combination with other nutrients causing some kind of issue when found in higher proportion diet items???

The specific regard was that potassium might also create an unfavorable calcium utility. I also consider that maybe the person who expressed the concern flipflopped Potassium with Phosphorus? Anyone that can share something on this please do.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Arugula A pretty decent C: P ratio https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3569?manu=&fgcd=&ds= High vitamin A and K as well.

I notice when I don't feed it for several days and then it rotates back in to the mix, the Egyptians and Pancakes seem enthused to get it. It's one of my favorite greens too.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Kapidolo Farms

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Via Infinito

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Hello please I need information on Pintoi Peanut ( a type of grass) and Axonopus Compressus!
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Hello please I need information on Pintoi Peanut ( a type of grass) and Axonopus Compressus!
Great suggestions! :p

Arachis pintoi Pinto peanut
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachis_pintoi wow, very interesting history

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/702 it has a 15: 1 C: P ratio, that alone is pretty darn good.


Axonopus compressus a forage grass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axonopus_compressus low growing shade tolerant grass, wow, another good plant to consider

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/498 about a 2:1 C; P ratio, so good enough to have something in a shaded area.
 

Yvonne G

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Great suggestions! :p

Arachis pintoi Pinto peanut
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachis_pintoi wow, very interesting history

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/702 it has a 15: 1 C: P ratio, that alone is pretty darn good.


Axonopus compressus a forage grass
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axonopus_compressus low growing shade tolerant grass, wow, another good plant to consider

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/498 about a 2:1 C; P ratio, so good enough to have something in a shaded area.
Thank you so much! These two are the main bulk of my tortoise diet so now I know it is grazing on the good stuff
 

Bambam1989

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How about nasturtium, snapdragons, and pansies?
Just got a bunch of seeds for this spring
*doing the happy gardener dance*
 

Kapidolo Farms

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How about nasturtium, snapdragons, and pansies?
Just got a bunch of seeds for this spring
*doing the happy gardener dance*
Tropaeolum aka nasturtium

wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropaeolum all parts are edible

TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=258&c=5#.Wk-0ZVWnFaQ Edible, but high in oxalic acid, so feed in moderation. My take on oxalic acid is that it is not a concern in a highly varied diet.

USDA https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/...lookup=nasturtium&ds=&qt=&qp=&qa=&qn=&q=&ing=

calls it watercress and provides a nutrient breakdown. The Wiki page's first paragraph sheds understanding on this.

Antirrhinum aka Snap Dragons

wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antirrhinum no comment on nutrients, but not comment regarding toxicity either. Has anti-inflammatory properties.

TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/search/? searchtogglestatus=&searchchoice=exactwords&searchtxt=Antirrhinum&x=11&y=9#.Wk-2S1WnFaQ safe to feed

Pansies

wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pansy

TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/...actwords&searchtxt=pansy&x=9&y=7#.Wk-3wVWnFaQ safe to feed

Many plants cultivated for garden flowers do not have actual nutrient content list that I can find. Just a dichotomy of poisonous or not
poisonous. The often best place to find warning is in herbal medicine pages, where the text is a cut and paste from somewhere else with no reference.

 

RosemaryDW

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How about grape leaves? They’re good but just how good?
 

Kapidolo Farms

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How about grape leaves? They’re good but just how good?
Vitus vinifera Grape leaves and shoots

Feedipedia https://www.feedipedia.org/node/512 C: P is 7:1.5 (that's good, no great), protein at about 9%, and high fiber.

Be sure to look at information in both the 2nd and third tab of each account that I post from Feedipedia.

TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/plant-database/viewplants/?plant=138&c=4#.Wk_vAVWnFaQ feed in moderation the leaves, no fruit.

USDA https://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/foods/show/3582?manu=&fgcd=&ds= similar to Feedipedia

I have found palate-ability to be high, especially with younger leaves and shoot tips. But even old dropped leaves can offer fiber to balance the lack of it in grocery greens like Romaine.

This is some text from Feedipedia
"Grape leaves and vine shoots are relatively poor in protein and rich in fibre. Grape leaves have a better protein content (7-14% of DM) than vine shoots (3-7% of DM), and a lower fibre content (ADF 18-39% vs. 25-57% of DM). Vine shoots are particularly rich in lignin (10-25% of DM). The protein content of vine shoots declines rapidly after the grape harvest: shoots collected at harvest had twice the protein content of those collected 30 days after harvest (6.2 vs. 3.0% of DM) (Kok et al., 2007). Storage affects the fibre content. In fresh vine shoots or those stored outside for up to 8 months, crude fibre increased from about 38-39% for the first 3 months to 42-45% of DM for the remaining period. Lignin increased gradually from about 10 to 20% of DM or more during the last 3 months (Tartari et al., 1979a)."

AND

"Grapes leaves and shoots contain high and variable amounts of condensed tannins that may impair digestibility. Condensed tannins bind to plant proteins and cell wall carbohydrates thereby decreasing protein and fibre digestibility (Waghorn, 2008). However, tannins may have beneficial effects such as increasing by-pass protein in ruminants and decreasing gas production, thus reducing gas emissions (Makkar, 2003). Tannins that have been reported to reduce palatability in some forages do not appear to have a negative effect on the intake of grape leaves by sheep (Romero et al., 2000). Grape leaves have been reported to contain 2-10% of DM as condensed tannins (Gurbuz, 2007; Kamalak, 2005; Romero et al., 2000)."
 

Kapidolo Farms

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dombeya

TTT not listed
Feedipedia not listed
USDA not listed

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/plantox/detail.cfm?id=2764 A Poisonous plant list.

COMMON NAME:
STANDARD COMMON NAME:
FAMILY: Malvaceae
LATIN NAME: Dombeya nairobensis Engl.
STANDARD PLANT NAME: Dombeya nairobensis Engl.

COMMON NAME: dombeya
STANDARD COMMON NAME:
FAMILY: Sterculiaceae
LATIN NAME: Dombeya elegans
STANDARD PLANT NAME: Dombeya elegans K. Schum.
No comment about how or why it is poisonous. The second fda citation uses the current latin Family name.

It seems risky!
 

Kapidolo Farms

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On the contrary...

Pieris japonica, the Japanese andromeda

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/plantox/detail.cfm?id=21737
AUTHOR(S): Pizzi, R.; Goodman, G.; GunnMoore, D.; Meredith, A.; Keeble, E.
TITLE: Pieris japonica intoxication in an African spurred tortoise (Geochelone sulcata).
YEAR: 2005 CITATION: Vet Rec, 156(15), 487-488 [English]
FDA #: NA

Full text https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.e...=Pieris_japonica_intoxication_in_an_Afric.pdf

TTT http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/...twords&searchtxt=Pieris&x=10&y=7#.WlVQKq6nFaQ DO NOT FEED
 

Yvonne G

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@Will - can you find info on weeds? I'm curious about filaree.
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Erodium cicutarium, also known as redstem filaree, redstem stork's bill, common stork's-bill or pinweed.

Feedipedia lists two species from this genus.

https://www.feedipedia.org/node/158 AND
https://www.feedipedia.org/node/159

neither of which is the species from the wiki page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erodium_cicutarium

TTT shows two species, one with a 'sparingly' sign and one with a feed sign. http://www.thetortoisetable.org.uk/...twords&searchtxt=filaree&x=0&y=0#.Wle_x66nFaQ


Based on the feedipedia accounts they are nutritionally near identical. The C: P ratio is about 5:1 so no worries there. It tastes good based on my own palate. I imagine more than the potential of fish killing saponins that TTT has mentioned as their 'sparingly" caution - that the dry seeds could be hard to swallow if they got into the feeding path of a tortoises.
 

TammyJ

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Any info on Sea Grape? The Caribbean Cyclura love it (the fruit, not too sure about the leaves).
 

Kapidolo Farms

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Any info on Sea Grape? The Caribbean Cyclura love it (the fruit, not too sure about the leaves).

Coccoloba uvifera or Sea Grape
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coccoloba_uvifera

"Suitable for human consumption"
http://hort.ifas.ufl.edu/database/documents/pdf/tree_fact_sheets/cocuvia.pdf

Many sources and recipes for making use of the fruit for human consumption and observations that cattle eat it, but no detail on it's nutrient value for cattle or other hoof-stock let alone rabbits or chickens etc.

I've seen Iguanas eat it in Puerto Rico.
 
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