Worried about my Red Foot - Please check out his set up!

[NicholsNINE]

I got a Red Foot "Tick Tock" from a the local Pet Land on September 22nd. He's supposedly around 2 years old.

We were told no water is needed in their enclosures as their diet provides plenty.

We were also told to use this substrate:

We were told to feed romaine lettuce, that tomatoes are fine, that varying the diet is the most important thing, and that the Frozen tortoise pellets are the best, oh and to sprinkle with this "tortoise dust" supplement.

Also, beneath the substrate is this liner:

NOW, HERE ARE MY CONCERNS:

I noticed watery eyes today. I've read from various sources this is due to dehydration and low humidity. I'm sure my room is quite dry so tomorrow we are going to get a humidifier for the room. Also, today I put a bigger dish of water for him to soak in for a bit. Any other ideas on how to improve his condition and get rid of watery eyes?

Also, A lot of what they told us (and what we've been doing since September) contradicts with the doctrine of www.redfoots.com and a lot of other sites I've been reading good things about on here.

Here is a pic of his current home so you can get an idea of what's being done right and wrong:

His current temperature on the heated side seems to be around 80-85 degrees during the day. At night it's a tad lower.

The yellow dish is where I put his food. Upon freaking out when I saw he was dehydrated I put the dish I mentioned earlier in so he could soak for a while, and when I took it out I put some water in the yellow dish for tonight. Also, when I was taking out the soaking dish I poured all the water into the substrate evenly to try to make it more humid.

I also have this tropical mist spray from the same company that made that terrarium liner. I've been trying to do that every other day. Perhaps it should be done more? Or maybe I should be using just water?

Perhaps to make it more humid I should cut the lid of the rubbermade container in half or poke holes in it or something? Here is the lid to give you ideas:

ALSO: I've read some places that cat food once a weak can kill red foots or hurt them a lot. I'm very worried about not getting him the right diet, but also about picking the wrong advice and hurting him. Please, could someone explain what's true and what isn't?

Also, here is a picture taken of him when i took the other pics today (the wetness is from water I poured over him after he was done soaking in it):

And here is a picture taken October 4th:

PLEASE GET TICK TOCK ON THE RIGHT PATH! I suppose I shouldn't have so readily trusted everything the pet store told me. I'll try to provide any extra information I can if needed. I'm EXTREMLY worried about him. If he started to show pyramiding or any more severe sickness I'd feel just absolutley awful. I really REALLY want to do everything right with my little buddy. I feel awful enough about the puffy/watery eyes.

PLEASE HELP! I need to know what info is good and why the contradictory info is bad, what I need to change for his home, etc. PLEASE!

THANKS SO MUCH IN ADVANCE TO ANYONE WITH GOOD ADVICE!

---

OH!

Also, on the left is his heat lamp I keep on 24/7.

On the right is his UV lamp I keep on during the day. I was told it should be on 12 hours a day. I've read some places that it's actually bad? Ahhhh, so much contradictory information?!

 

[egyptiandan]

Hi,
If you've read Terry's site, www.redfoots.com it's great information to keep your redfoot healthy.
As for the substrate, a thin layer of the bark over either organic soil or peatmoss that is quite damp will help with your humidity problem.
UV lights on for long periods aren't good for redfoots. I wouldn't have it on more than 4 hours a day. They don't like bright light conditions, so if you can get a ceramic heat emitter instead of the bulb for heat that would be great.
Redfoots do need protein at least once a week. You can feed whole animals (mine love night crawlers) or a low fat dry cat food that has been soaked.

Danny

 

[Chucky]

The best thing to do is always do your research first before buying a tortoise. You have to remember that "most" pet shops are in the business of selling and will tell you anything to make a sale. I have yet to see a pet shop that has a proper enclosure set up for Sulcatas or Redfoots or even feed them the correct food.

 

[Yvonne G]

You're on the right track if you just continue to follow Terry Kilgore's information (www.redfoots.com/). There is quite a bit of mis-information out there and pet stores usually don't really have the correct info. But you can take redfoots.com to the bank.

Yvonne

and I forgot to mention that weepy eyes means too-dry a habitat (sometimes)

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Hi NicholsNINE,

{ since it takes me sooooo long to type and think.. all of the above have been added - THANKS GUYS - I've been working at this for 10 years..

}

Our 'caresheets' have been called a number of things.. I don't know if "doctrine" would be appropriate or not - I like it tho'!

If you want to find out if the others are "true" ask them to see what their 1 & 2 & 3 & now almost 4 year-olds look like from following their caresheets. Do they have pics at all of those ages? If not.. they must not be very sure of the results.. are they???

And why would "they" say that our 'doctrine' is wrong when we DO provide pics of how our redfoots [ hatched here ] look and grow and are healthy over the past almost 4 years now.

We do have a # of good reports - http://redfoots.com/smf/index.php?board=13.0 http://www.redfoots.com/nfs242/

And this is where it started.. http://www.turtletary.com/redfootcare.htm

And what just one of my hatchlings looks like recently.. started like this..

10 months old.. ( munching CURLY ENDIVE )..

Now 3+ years later..

Not a week goes by that I don't get emails asking for help or showing-off how good their redfoot looks because they followed our caresheets.

So I don't "claim" [ or have to claim ] anything.. the results speak for themselves.

Are there "other" ways of raising redfoots?.. of course! And as a result they.. like you.. come here asking us for help - "How do I get it right"?

NERD

 

[Crazy1]

NicholsNINE, I am a huge advocate of Terrys, (Redfoot NERDS) His care helped turn around a very sick little redfoot for me that had MBD. The way he gets it right "He has done it for some time now and the pictures speek for themselves. He has a bunch of great looking RF that are healthy and happy. If you follow his path you too should have a healthy happy RF. Good Luck. and welcome to the forum.

 

[NicholsNINE]

Thanks everyone!

Today I got a humidifier for my room and printed out the feeding schedule recommended on redfoots.com

I'm having a few troubles though still:

I can't seem to find the Mosser Lee Sphagnum Moss, the Pro-Plan Weight Management Dry Cat Food, or the NOW Calcium Carbonate. Any ideas on where to look?

Also, the video on redfoots.com about how moist to keep the moss doesn't load for me, so I'm still not sure.

Oh, and even though my red foot is about 2 years old, does the stuff in the yearling section still apply?

Thanks!

 

[Yvonne G]

I have heard that you can find the spagnum moss at Lowe's. If you have a Petsmart in your town, they sell the cat food. It comes in a plastic thing-a-ma-bob that looks like a pitcher with a handle on the side. I don't know about the calcium.

Yvonne

 

[Chucky]

NicholsNINE,

On the video link for the moss dampness, try right clicking on the link and choose 'Save link as' or 'Save Target as'. Once it downloads, try double clicking on it. It's a .wmv video so you need a player that will play it.

The NOW calcium can be found if you Google it. I never found it in any stores around here either.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Measure 'Tick-Tock' for us like so [ shown 3 1/4" ]..

And can we get a plastron [ belly ] pic?

I hope you got a "WARM-AIR" Humidifier.

The 'yearling' guidelines are good. The only real difference as they mature is size of enclosure.. and frequency of feeding. They should NEVER walk away from food left over - better to underfeed than overfeed - keep them "hungry"!!! Being "opportunistic" they will eat until they pass out.. especially as hatchlings.

NERD

 

[NicholsNINE]

Thanks for all the help! The fact that you guys are more willing to give advice than the pet store that sold me the tortoise is another good indicator you should be trusted I would bet too!

Here's a measurement of Tick Tock:

Looks to be a little under 6 inches. If you need a better picture than that I'll try to take one.


Here's the plastron shot:

Here's the best picture of one of his eyes I could get:

Here's an above shot of him in the little dish I put in during the day sometimes for him to soak in:

And here's a picture (well, kind of) of something that's started to worry me:

It's not too visible but there's a bump in the front there that he'd had since we got him in September. It hasn't changed at all, and they said it didn't matter, but now I'm worried it's a bad sign. The eye picture kind of shows it better.


I'm going to stick to your schedule for feeding, so saturday should be his first cat food day. I'll make the drive out to petsmart to get that. Still not sure about where to get the calcium, but I think I can probably find it by saturday.

Today is a greens alone day, so I'm feeding him half a cup of escarole.

Once I get a little bit more money I'm going to try to replace the red heat bulb with a heat emitter. I think it'll just go in the same fixture if I'm not mistaken.

Also, for UV, I can't take him outside becuase I live in Kansas and it's snowy this time of year. So, I suppose I'll try to keep the UV bulb on for only 4 hours as mentioned above? His home is kind of by a window I let the light come in through, if that helps.


Also, the humidifier is a "Reli On" Warm Mist Humidifier. The room already feels far less dry.

Thanks again and Merry Christmas!

 

[JustAnja]

I put together a list of appropriate foods to give a varied diet. Hope it help you some.


GREENS
The following greens are easily found in most local stores:

Romaine lettuce (occasional)
Red and green leaf lettuce (occasional)
Curly Endive
Escarole
Radicchio
Turnip greens
Mustard greens
Collard greens
Spring Mix
Cabbage (only occasionally)
Chicory

VEGETABLES

Zucchini
Winter squash
Pumpkin
Yellow squash
Carrots
Green Beans (only occasionally)

FRUIT

Strawberries
Cantaloupe
Plum
Pineapple
Blackberries
Blueberries
Cactus fruit (pads and fruit)
Papaya
Mango
Apples (remove seeds)
Bananas (only as a treat once or twice per month)

OTHER GOOD CHOICES (always make sure no systemic pesticides were used)

Hosta
Sedum
Mulberry leaves
Hen and Chicks
Ice Plants
Hibiscus (flowers and leaves)
Prickly pear flowers, fruit and pads (burn the spines off)
Dandelion
Cornflowers Plagiobothrys ssp
Forsythia (flowers and leaves)
Dayflower Commelina diffusa (flowers and leaves)
California Poppy
Plantain (not the banana type fruit….the weed plantago major)
Mallow (flowers and leaves)
Henbit
Rose (flowers and leaves)
Chrysanthemum flowers
Grape leaves

hawks bit

mulberry leaves and fruit

thistle

nasturtiums

wild rose flower and hips

MEAT OPTIONS
pinky mice
boiled chicken
shrimp
organ meat
boiled eggs

They will feed on various bugs when housed outdoors during the warm months as well.

Avoid Spinach, Bok Choy and Iceberg lettuce, Rhubard, beet greens.

 

[NicholsNINE]

Thanks for the food list! I'll be sure to get more of that stuff.

The Hygrometer I got today says the humidity is about 40% in my room. I know this isn't enough. How much higher does it need to be and how do I go about doing that? I'm not sure the Hygrometer is working though, it reads the temp as around 75 and my other thermometer says it's about 84 and I've never known the old thermometer to be wrong.

 

[Chucky]

The humidity is way too low. You should try to get at least 75% but higher is even better. As for the hygrometer/thermometer, If you're sure your old one is accurate, take it with you to the pet store and walk around a bit so yours can adjust to the store temp and then check the new ones to your old one. Pick the one closest to yours.

 

[NicholsNINE]

Okay, I'm probably going to try to get a new hygrometer. Hopefully the one I just got is defective. If it turns out I'm all wrong and my old one is broken and the new one works, then how should I go about getting 75% humidity and a higher temp?

Thanks!

 

[Madkins007]

Hygrometer: Cheap ones are usually wrong, but still are useful showing general trends.

Humidity: Aim for about 70% overall, and about 95%ish in at least some part of the habitat, like a humid hide. It can be tricky to balance high temps and humidity and lots of fresh air. If you cover too much of the habitat the thing will quickly stink and cause its own problems. In general, the older the tortoise, the less it needs the entire habitat in the high humidity range which is nice since they need bigger habitats! They should always have a humid hide and good 'background' humidity however.

The best way I have found is Terry's way- properly moistened sphagnum moss. If your room is reasonably humid, you should not have to cover too much of the habitat, but if your room is pretty dry you may have to either cover more, or use a humid hide. A simple humid hide is just something like a lidded plastic shoebox with a hole cut in the side and some dampened moss in the bottom, then placed in the warm part of the habitat.
Sources:
- Mosser Lee is at both Lowes and Home Depot- look where they stock the stuff to decorate potted plants. Mosser Lee sells rocks and other things, so there are usually a few things close together. Look for a squarish bag about 6"wx8"h or so.

- NOW calcium is great. I found it at a couple different local health food stores, but pretty much any pure calcium carbonate supplement (no vitamin D or other additives) will work. Calcium mineral tablets (again, pure calcium) can be crushed, or you can find calcium supplement with no additives at some pet shops (like Repti-Cal)- but most of this is more expensive ounce for ounce than NOW.

 

[NicholsNINE]

Thanks a lot Madkins! My plan is to use whatever money I get from Christmas tomorrow to go buy the Mosser Lee stuff. I think I found a place that sells NOW about 20 min from where I love too. Once I put in the Mosser Lee stuff and dampen it, if the humidity isn't enough I don't really know what I'd try next.

By the way, to keep heat and humidity in, I'm trying this right now:

Is that a good or bad idea? Will that still allow for air to flow enough?

The new Hygrometer/Thermometer is reading 36% humidity now that it's been half an hour since the last spray and it's temp reading on the hot end is 81 degrees. I hope mine is like the other cheaps ones you mention and that it's wrong.

The old thermometer is reading around 95 degrees for the hot end. Now I'm not really sure which temp reading is correct. The old one is pretty old I guess and isn't very fancy it's just a basic red one.

Also, should he get a bigger enclosure?

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I'm afraid you're making it difficult 'NINE'! No need to.. it's simple! ( it would be nice to know your name.. introduce yourself here? )

Unfortunately the petstore got you started ALL wrong!!! I would take those dreaded 'clamp-light' fixtures back and DEMAND a refund.. or at least a store credit IF they have the PROPLAN dry cat food.. and only IF! Otherwise I would pitch a fit and let them know that they sold you stuff that you don't need and was a waste of money. DEMAND A REFUND!

Again go with the basic set-up that is found in the 'yearling' section on redfoots.com and the Turtletary.com caresheet. Your temps are too varied and the humidity is too low.. and the lighting is too much. [ petstores should not be allowed to sell reptiles - I'm just ranting.. forgive me ] And yes get the "bookcase" type enclosure ASAP. Read everything that is written and go with the largest you can handle and you'll be O.K.!

As far as diet.. mine have been raised on a vary simple/staple diet of dandelion and other weeds that grow in the back yard in the summer. Hibiscus leaves and flowers. And the other curly endive.. escorale.. collards.. and turnip greens - that's it for the greens. Black plums [ their favorite fruit ].. peaches.. melon.. occasional strawberries. And that's it for the fruit. Although there are many other items I'm sure they will eat..I have found that the simpler you keep it the better it is.

'NINE' there has been input on this thread from those that have very little to no experience.. up to raising hatchlings to become young sub-adults. I can only encourage you to actually ask them individually what their experience has been and how theirs look like and have thrived as a result. And of course I've made my 10 years of experience known thru the links to my websites in my signature. After you have read that info.. and have seen what the results are.. you'll know which is best for your redfoot. The closer you stick with the formula.. the better yours will be.

As far as how Tick Tock looks? From the pics I don't see anything to be concerned with. The carapace growth looks fine.. keep him 'sprayed' as often as is possible everyday. The anal scutes look a little different [ nothing to be concerned about ] indicating maybe a male. Once you get his set-up the way you need it.. you and he will be much happier!

Keep us posted...

NERD

 

[NicholsNINE]

Hello! My name is Taylor by the way.

I'm not sure if they'd give me a refund. However, I would like to switch to the type of lights your enclosures use. Where would I find all that stuff though? Would it be possibly to use the light fixtures I already have but do the drop down method you show and switch the bulb out for a heat emitter?

Also, what kind of bookshelf? Would it be possible to use the rubber made container I am already using but buy another and "fuse" them together for more room?

For his diet I have a list of the foods you've recommended printed out and a schedule for feeding. Also, I'm always there now when he eats. The pet store said you can never overfeed these things, and to just leave food out whenever. I suppose that's just another reason not to trust them, huh!

Thanks!

 

[JustAnja]

Well there goes that infamous elitist attitude rearing itself once more