Advice for first time sulcata keeper? Sulcata Adoption

[Nellie Rose]

Hello everybody! It's been a long time. I posted one thread like 3 years ago and never came back, but this is my first new tortoise in 10 years.

The tortoise belonged to a kid who went to college. But the parents were adamant they did not want it.

So the poor baby ended up abandoned, and sent to a shelter.

So the baby needed a new home. I kept tabs on her for about a week, before contacting to see if I could adopt her.
I have wanted a sulcata my whole life, and have randomly considered it, but this past year I have been doing some real research into them, and I feel really prepared to take her in.
I've got a 4×2×2 enclosure to start. It's not ideal I know, but she will be moved into a 300 gal stock eventually. Currently she is around 4 inches, we've guessed around a year old.

For the summer I have a 4×8 garden bed to keep her in, until she gets bigger. Then I will build a big fenced in area, I want to build her a little watering hole, and I'll get a heated shed for winter. She'll probably share the area with my birds, so the ducks will have access to the pond. Itll be well filtered, I've built them before. Ideally she'll still be able to go outside in the winter, but be able to retreat into her 90F+ house to warm up, and then get locked in at night. Of course she'll have a basking spot during winter as well to keep her nice and toasty. But this is all just ideas for the future, I need to do more research into keeping giant tortoises in colder climates.

In the short term I'm making this thread so I can be sure I'm doing all this right, and getting her a good start.

I'll post more later. I don't have much time now to post pictures and all of the info I need to. I don't have her yet, I'll be picking her up after pictures of my temporary enclosure are approved.

Right now I'm getting the enclosure set up. If my information is correct babies need much higher humidity as adults, so it is a closed chamber. I'm using a mix of substrates, forest floor, sand, organic soil. With a nice clay soaking dish, and a humid hide.

I'd like to say that yes I understand that Sulcatas are cows with shells, and need a huge space to thrive, and I'm prepared to provide that. She'll have a heated shed in the winter, 60×30 pen in the summer once she is big enough. I fully intend on exceeding the minimum space requirements as she grows, I have 1 acre to take advantage of so whatever I can fence off and make escape proof and predator proof she can have. While forums are overwhelmingly positive in general, I just want to skip over the "are you sure this is a good idea" posts and jump right to the advice and knowledge that can help me and the little one get off to the right start.

But I have never had a sulcata before, or any kind of African tortoise, so advice is very much appreciated!!!
I'll post pictures soon, of her and of her first enclosure.

I'll also need to post an update on my Hermann’s Tortoise, Herrmann soon. He is doing great, and his personality is finally starting to level out.

Ever since finding her I've been looking at other rescues and there's so many Sulcatas that have been abandoned and surrendered!
It's unbelievable how many there are, and so sad. Just because they get them when they're little and then get rid of them when they grow up.

Mine is an unusual situation as I've ended up with a young one, but if all goes well with her perhaps I will get more once I have a SIZABLE outdoor pen and heated house. That is a long time away though and I don't want to even think about that now.

But anyway! That's everything. Post more info and some pictures soon. I just wanted to get the story that started this out.

 

[wellington]

Do not use sand or soil for substrate. They are blockage issues. Coconut coir or orchid bark either or both
Yes, a closed chamber is best for about another year. Tube florescent light for uvb, incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitters for added day heat and night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp and night temp 80-85 never lower.
Humidity 80%
Good luck, don't forget the pics.

 

[Nellie Rose]

Do not use sand or soil for substrate. They are blockage issues. Coconut coir or orchid bark either or both
Yes, a closed chamber is best for about another year. Tube florescent light for uvb, incandescent flood bulb for basking and ceramic heat emitters for added day heat and night heat
Basking temp 95-100
Over all temp and night temp 80-85 never lower.
Humidity 80%
Good luck, don't forget the pics.

Got all that! Thanks!

I don't believe sand or soil will cause impaction in a healthy animal. At least that has been my experience and what my research hads led me to conclude. Perhaps I will use Coco coir to be safe at first just in case, and go from there. I am allergic to orchid bark 😭
I remember when I first got my tortoise and my first couple dragons it was a VERY controversial subject, and I was terrified of keeping my Hermann’s on soil, but once I switched I never went back. He started digging more, and turns out soil and coconut are pretty much the only substrates I'm not allergic to.
I will do more research, since this is a completely different species. I have forest floor bedding on hand I will use though, to keep everything nice and moist.

Thanks again!
Oh and I forgot to add. I have an Arcadia DHP for heat, with a 25 watt incandescent to attract her to the basking spot, and a 24 inch tube UVB also Arcadia. I pretty much only use Arcadia lights and fixtures at this point, they are just superior, those and megaray mercury vapor. Everything is hooked to Thermostats to prevent overheating and a smart thermometer/hygrometer that sends alerts to my phone if something is wrong.
Hoping to bring her home on Thursday. I'll be working on the enclosure tomorrow evening and Tuesday.
Here is an above head shot the shelter sent me. Her name is Cassie. I may or may not change it we will see.

 

[Tom]

I have wanted a sulcata my whole life, and have randomly considered it, but this past year I have been doing some real research into them, and I feel really prepared to take her in.
I've got a 4×2×2 enclosure to start. It's not ideal I know, but she will be moved into a 300 gal stock eventually. Currently she is around 4 inches, we've guessed around a year old.

You've come here for help, so help is what I am offering. Almost every source outside of this forum where you've done research has led you to believe incorrect info. I'll break it down one by one for you with explanation.

4x2 is fine for a tiny 35 gram hatchling. Way too small for a 4 inch tortoise. The 300 gallon stock tank is too small too, and there is no way to properly heat and humidify it all with an open top.

For the summer I have a 4×8 garden bed to keep her in, until she gets bigger. Then I will build a big fenced in area, I want to build her a little watering hole, and I'll get a heated shed for winter. She'll probably share the area with my birds, so the ducks will have access to the pond. Itll be well filtered, I've built them before.

A 4 inch baby should not be outside all day in any weather, season or climate. You need a large indoor closed chamber, and the tortoise can go outside for a few hours a day in favorable weather.

Birds should not be sharing your tortoises enclosure. That is a big contamination risk. Ducks make huge messes of their ponds, as I'm sure you already know, and the tortoise should not be drinking or soaking in that nasty water. There is no practical way to filter out duck poop.

Ideally she'll still be able to go outside in the winter, but be able to retreat into her 90F+ house to warm up, and then get locked in at night. Of course she'll have a basking spot during winter as well to keep her nice and toasty. But this is all just ideas for the future, I need to do more research into keeping giant tortoises in colder climates.

Heated sheds are too small for adult sulcata to spend months at a time in. Also, heat lamps are not and effective or safe source of heat for larger tortoises, once they get past around 12 inches. You'll damage the top of the carapace, and the tortoise will not be able to get warm enough at its core.

When you do "research" on keeping giants, you'll get more bad info and people telling you what you want to hear, but eventually you will realize what I am trying to tell you: There is no practical way to keep giant tropical tortoises in the frozen north. Yes, there are a few people who manage to keep them alive, but many don't, and its not good for them. They don't brumate, and they need HUGE heated spaces all year long. They should be outside wandering in cold temperatures. Again, some of them can survive that, and you'll see cute pics on FB, but its not good for them.

Right now I'm getting the enclosure set up. If my information is correct babies need much higher humidity as adults, so it is a closed chamber. I'm using a mix of substrates, forest floor, sand, organic soil. With a nice clay soaking dish, and a humid hide.

Yes, babies need high humidity. That is correct. All life stages need humidity when they are growing. Adults can certainly survive dry conditions, but humid conditions are better for them too. Sand and soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. What makes you feel that a healthy animal won't get sand impacted? What do you base that on? I've seen loads of sand impaction cases and I'm pretty sure all of them were healthy animals before they got impacted with sand. You've been reading the wrong info.

Soil is made from composted yard waste, and they add all sorts of weird stuff to it to get the right consistency for plants to grow in. They don't intend for small animals to be living on it in small indoors enclosures. There are sometimes toxic and hazardous items mixed in to store bought soil.

I'd like to say that yes I understand that Sulcatas are cows with shells, and need a huge space to thrive, and I'm prepared to provide that.

You are not able to provide that during your northern winters. A shed is too small.

While forums are overwhelmingly positive in general, I just want to skip over the "are you sure this is a good idea" posts and jump right to the advice and knowledge that can help me and the little one get off to the right start.

Why would you skip over the cautionary tales of people who have already been down the road you intend to head down and are trying to warn you of the pitfalls you are about to encounter? If my previous paragraphs sound discouraging to you, why do you think that is? Do you think I come here to argue with people for no good reason and to upset them or drive them away? Well, I don't. I'm trying to help you and others avoid common mistakes that lead to tragedy and suffering. Once this baby outgrows a 4x8 foot closed chamber, there is no practical way for you to care for it correctly in your climate. That is the reason people might query "Are you sure this is a good idea?" Because they know it is not and are trying to be diplomatic about telling you so.

Oh and I forgot to add. I have an Arcadia DHP for heat, with a 25 watt incandescent to attract her to the basking spot, and a 24 inch tube UVB also Arcadia.

DHPs will cause pyramiding. I would not use that. Arcadia does make good stuff, but DHPs aren't good for tortoises. Use a CHE or RHP instead for ambient heat, and use a regular incandescent hardware store flood lamp for basking heat and light.

There is more here. I typed this up fairly recently, so I don't think you've seen it. There is a sulcata care sheet and a heating and lighting breakdown near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

I hope this info helps you make your decisions. It may not be what you want to hear, but its what you need to hear. Please remember that I'm trying to help you avoid problems. That's all. Nothing else.

 

[Len B]

I can also help you avoid problems because I keep sulcatas in a cold climate area. My first sulcata Walker was raised in Calvert county Maryland for his first 10 years. He now resides across the Potomac River in Colonial Beach Virginia since 2006. We can see Maryland from the house it's only 2 miles across the river. I now have 4 male sulcatas, they each have their own heated house and area separated from each other. They live outside all year and do well even during the colder months. This is Walker my oldest He hatchet out in the summer of1996. Just weighed him a couple weeks ago and he is up to 167 pounds. If your heart is really in on caring for and giving one everything that's needed for a proper environment it's very doable. It's a big important decision for a tortoise that's going to get big and most likely outlive you.

 

[Nellie Rose]

You've come here for help, so help is what I am offering. Almost every source outside of this forum where you've done research has led you to believe incorrect info. I'll break it down one by one for you with explanation.

4x2 is fine for a tiny 35 gram hatchling. Way too small for a 4 inch tortoise. The 300 gallon stock tank is too small too, and there is no way to properly heat and humidify it all with an open top.

300 gallons is too small for a 4 inch? The 300 gallon stock tank I am referencing is around 7×7 and would fit in my garage. I can also make an enclosed lid for it, I've done a lot like that before.
I could always get it a 8×4 PVC from Kages as a temporary enclosure, I have my adult Hermann's in one of those, it's just $1500 I don't want to spend right now, got to save for a few months first, but that I'd what I was planning to move her up to eventually. My idea was to do an 8×4 on one wall and fit it to the corner so she has 6 feet on the other side as well. So an 8×4 & 6×2.5 joined together. That's probably the largest indoor enclosure i can do before moving into the garage for the 10×10 and so on.

A 4 inch baby should not be outside all day in any weather, season or climate. You need a large indoor closed chamber, and the tortoise can go outside for a few hours a day in favorable weather.

Sorry I should have clarified, she won't be outside 24/7 until she's the proper size, and if I am certain I can maintain humidity and temps properly. I'm not just going to build her a cage and chuck her outside 😅 I'm looking into building a mini greenhouse over an 8×4 garden bed, and then anytime she needs an upgrade I just attach a second one, expand to an 8×8, then an 8×16, you get the picture, and eventually I'll need to build a large outdoor area.

Birds should not be sharing your tortoises enclosure. That is a big contamination risk. Ducks make huge messes of their ponds, as I'm sure you already know, and the tortoise should not be drinking or soaking in that nasty water. There is no practical way to filter out duck poop.

Sorry I didn't mean sharing. My birds free range and get into everything, so if the ducks wander in they'll get in the water but not by design. I've already built them their own pond.
And just as an extra thing, I get my flock tested for parasites regularly. They have never had any, even during the muddy seasons.

Heated sheds are too small for adult sulcata to spend months at a time in. Also, heat lamps are not and effective or safe source of heat for larger tortoises, once they get past around 12 inches. You'll damage the top of the carapace, and the tortoise will not be able to get warm enough at its core.

OK well what is a big enough space? I can always heat my garage. I suppose.
And if not for heat lamp, what do I use? Am I just relying on ambient temps? Radiating heat panels? I'm assuming the issue is the focused heat on a small area. I can counteract that.

When you do "research" on keeping giants, you'll get more bad info and people telling you what you want to hear, but eventually you will realize what I am trying to tell you: There is no practical way to keep giant tropical tortoises in the frozen north. Yes, there are a few people who manage to keep them alive, but many don't, and its not good for them. They don't brumate, and they need HUGE heated spaces all year long. They should be outside wandering in cold temperatures. Again, some of them can survive that, and you'll see cute pics on FB, but its not good for them.

Well I'm definitely not trying to imitate cut Facebook photos 🤣
How huge? I can modify a room in my house. I know they can go through drywall so I'd need to figure out a more secure barrier. Solid wood?

Yes, babies need high humidity. That is correct. All life stages need humidity when they are growing. Adults can certainly survive dry conditions, but humid conditions are better for them too. Sand and soil should never be used as tortoise substrate. What makes you feel that a healthy animal won't get sand impacted? What do you base that on? I've seen loads of sand impaction cases and I'm pretty sure all of them were healthy animals before they got impacted with sand. You've been reading the wrong info.

My opinion is from reading and experience, it's the same as the bearded dragon substrate debate.
IMHO it is better to try and imitate nature as close as possible, including substrate. When's the last time you've seen an animal walking around on a single material, or specifically in the beardies case, paper towels or tile.

i use a blend of substrates for all of my animals. Coconut fiber and coir held too much water, and would become sort of swampy. Orchid bark molded and I am allergic to it. Forrest floor worked fine, but didn't hold burrows well for my Hermann’s and other burrowing pets.
But organic soil when blended with other materials like sand, and forest floor holds humidity but allows excess water to drain. It holds burrows, and I've never had an animal get impacted or ill on it. This includes my tortoise, bearded dragon, bts, Leopard gecko, etc. I've kept dragons on a blend of soils for 10 years.
And of course you adjust the moisture in the soil according to the species, so my dragon has ambient humidity of 35-40%, while my Meruke BTS has humidity between 70-80%

Soil is made from composted yard waste, and they add all sorts of weird stuff to it to get the right consistency for plants to grow in. They don't intend for small animals to be living on it in small indoors enclosures. There are sometimes toxic and hazardous items mixed in to store bought soil.

I've used organic potting soil for 10 years with no issues. It's not the kind of fluffy soil that has a ton of stuff broken down in it, it's just plain dirt with some mulch. You've just got to check all lables thoroughly. I buy a specific brand, I'll try to find it and post it later.

But in this instance I'll defer to your knowledge for the baby sulcata, and I'll pick up some coconut coir later, forest floor still ok? Anything else I should mix in. I like to add microfauna to my enclosures for bioactivity so a mix of substrates is important.

You are not able to provide that during your northern winters. A shed is too small.

How big a shed are we talking? I was thinking one pretty low to the ground, say 4 feet, maybe dug into the ground. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of 15-20ft×10. I'd build it to the proper specifications. Like I said if it's not good to keep them outdoors all year, even with a place to warm up, I won't. I just need the actual specs. Under my back porch is open right now, just covered with a trellis. It is 30×15, so 450 square foot. I could put walls and insulation on that as well. I have a lot of property to play with, I am very fortunate.

Why would you skip over the cautionary tales of people who have already been down the road you intend to head down and are trying to warn you of the pitfalls you are about to encounter? If my previous paragraphs sound discouraging to you, why do you think that is? Do you think I come here to argue with people for no good reason and to upset them or drive them away? Well, I don't. I'm trying to help you and others avoid common mistakes that lead to tragedy and suffering. Once this baby outgrows a 4x8 foot closed chamber, there is no practical way for you to care for it correctly in your climate. That is the reason people might query "Are you sure this is a good idea?" Because they know it is not and are trying to be diplomatic about telling you so.

I don't want to skip over cautionary tales, cautionary tales are what help us to learn from past mistakes and do better in the future.
I just meant I didn't want negativity. Warnings, yes. Advice, yes. Knowledge I don't have, yes. Just no outright you're an idiot for even considering it negativity. People are really passionate and that is awesome, I just find a lot of the times especially with tortoises for some reason, conversations like this can turn semi-hostile and I just don't have the energy to deal with it.

And nothing you've said thus far is what I am talking about. You've politely but firmly spelled out several subjects I need to consider and I appreciate it. I'm not discouraged, i just know I am a novice and need to do more "research"
As you said there are so many sources of bad info, I'm just trying to find the right ones.

DHPs will cause pyramiding. I would not use that. Arcadia does make good stuff, but DHPs aren't good for tortoises. Use a CHE or RHP instead for ambient heat, and use a regular incandescent hardware store flood lamp for basking heat and light.

why will a DHP cause pyramiding? I ask just because I have read that they are the most efficient heating method because of the kind of radiation they give off. For my lizards I provide incandescents and dhps, so they can choose which kind of heat they want throughout the day, and it has made a difference.
I have che and rhps on hand though, so I'll use them instead, just never heard about pyramiding from dhp.

There is more here. I typed this up fairly recently, so I don't think you've seen it. There is a sulcata care sheet and a heating and lighting breakdown near the bottom:

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

I hope this info helps you make your decisions. It may not be what you want to hear, but its what you need to hear. Please remember that I'm trying to help you avoid problems. That's all. Nothing else.

I will read it! Thank you!
And yes I know, your information is very helpful. I am confident I can apply it and take care of the little one properly, just got to nail down her first enclosure, and then I'll get some plans down for the summer, and her heated building.
There is very little I wouldn't do for my animals, I can be a bit extreme, which is probably what you need to be to keep an animal this size.

 

[Nellie Rose]

I can also help you avoid problems because I keep sulcatas in a cold climate area. My first sulcata Walker was raised in Calvert county Maryland for his first 10 years. He now resides across the Potomac River in Colonial Beach Virginia since 2006. We can see Maryland from the house it's only 2 miles across the river. I now have 4 male sulcatas, they each have their own heated house and area separated from each other. They live outside all year and do well even during the colder months. This is Walker my oldest View attachment 362650He hatchet out in the summer of1996. Just weighed him a couple weeks ago and he is up to 167 pounds. If your heart is really in on caring for and giving one everything that's needed for a proper environment it's very doable. It's a big important decision for a tortoise that's going to get big and most likely outlive you.

Ok so you know about how crazy MD weather can be.
How do you keep them outside all year? What does your set up consist of? How do you source your food in the winter?
Sorry for all the questions.

Purely curious, is there a reason you ended up with all males 😅

And wow what a big boy! 26 years old right? That's amazing. I have a 28 year old painted turtle, but he's probably only got a few years left. I really love that I'm going to have a lifelong companion with this tortoise. I am fully expecting my Hermanns to live up to 70, which means I'll have him when I'm 80, if I make it that long. Right now I have him being left to my baby cousin Bella after she turns 18, before 18 Hermann would be with my older cousin Holly, should some unfortunate accident befall me.

 

[SuzanneZ]

Hello everybody! It's been a long time. I posted one thread like 3 years ago and never came back, but this is my first new tortoise in 10 years.

The tortoise belonged to a kid who went to college. But the parents were adamant they did not want it.

So the poor baby ended up abandoned, and sent to a shelter.

So the baby needed a new home. I kept tabs on her for about a week, before contacting to see if I could adopt her.
I have wanted a sulcata my whole life, and have randomly considered it, but this past year I have been doing some real research into them, and I feel really prepared to take her in.
I've got a 4×2×2 enclosure to start. It's not ideal I know, but she will be moved into a 300 gal stock eventually. Currently she is around 4 inches, we've guessed around a year old.

For the summer I have a 4×8 garden bed to keep her in, until she gets bigger. Then I will build a big fenced in area, I want to build her a little watering hole, and I'll get a heated shed for winter. She'll probably share the area with my birds, so the ducks will have access to the pond. Itll be well filtered, I've built them before. Ideally she'll still be able to go outside in the winter, but be able to retreat into her 90F+ house to warm up, and then get locked in at night. Of course she'll have a basking spot during winter as well to keep her nice and toasty. But this is all just ideas for the future, I need to do more research into keeping giant tortoises in colder climates.

In the short term I'm making this thread so I can be sure I'm doing all this right, and getting her a good start.

I'll post more later. I don't have much time now to post pictures and all of the info I need to. I don't have her yet, I'll be picking her up after pictures of my temporary enclosure are approved.

Right now I'm getting the enclosure set up. If my information is correct babies need much higher humidity as adults, so it is a closed chamber. I'm using a mix of substrates, forest floor, sand, organic soil. With a nice clay soaking dish, and a humid hide.

I'd like to say that yes I understand that Sulcatas are cows with shells, and need a huge space to thrive, and I'm prepared to provide that. She'll have a heated shed in the winter, 60×30 pen in the summer once she is big enough. I fully intend on exceeding the minimum space requirements as she grows, I have 1 acre to take advantage of so whatever I can fence off and make escape proof and predator proof she can have. While forums are overwhelmingly positive in general, I just want to skip over the "are you sure this is a good idea" posts and jump right to the advice and knowledge that can help me and the little one get off to the right start.

But I have never had a sulcata before, or any kind of African tortoise, so advice is very much appreciated!!!
I'll post pictures soon, of her and of her first enclosure.

I'll also need to post an update on my Hermann’s Tortoise, Herrmann soon. He is doing great, and his personality is finally starting to level out.

Ever since finding her I've been looking at other rescues and there's so many Sulcatas that have been abandoned and surrendered!
It's unbelievable how many there are, and so sad. Just because they get them when they're little and then get rid of them when they grow up.

Mine is an unusual situation as I've ended up with a young one, but if all goes well with her perhaps I will get more once I have a SIZABLE outdoor pen and heated house. That is a long time away though and I don't want to even think about that now.

But anyway! That's everything. Post more info and some pictures soon. I just wanted to get the story that started this out.

Cool!

 

[Tom]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. Most people get mad and call me names when I don't tell them what they want to hear, so I'm glad you didn't take my words as offensive.

300 gallons is too small for a 4 inch? The 300 gallon stock tank I am referencing is around 7×7 and would fit in my garage. I can also make an enclosed lid for it, I've done a lot like that before.

7x7 feet is certainly big enough for a 4 inch sulcata, especially if you close it in, but that is not 300 gallons. I'm doing the math and 7x7 isn't 300 gallons unless the walls are about 10 inches tall, and that would be impossible to hang your heating and lighting in. You need at least 24 inches tall. The formula I've been using since the 80s is: L x W x H / 231 = gallons. An 8x4x2 foot closed chamber would be 478 gallons, for example. 96 x 48 x 24 = 110,592. 110,592 divided by 231 = 478.75 gallons.

84 x 84 x24 = 169,344. 169,344 divided by 231 = 733.09 gallons. Anyway... moving on...

Your big "L" shaped enclosure will work for a while as long as you can keep the temps and humidity up in it.

Sorry I should have clarified, she won't be outside 24/7 until she's the proper size, and if I am certain I can maintain humidity and temps properly. I'm not just going to build her a cage and chuck her outside.

I didn't think you meant outside 24/7. I thought you meant outside all day. Out side all day isn't good for little ones. They do better by any measure when kept in the correct conditions mostly indoors as babies, with gradually more and more time outside as they gain size.

And just as an extra thing, I get my flock tested for parasites regularly. They have never had any, even during the muddy seasons.

I'm not worried about parasites. A tortoise isn't going to be able to get infected with most bird parasites. I'm more concerned about bacteria, fungus, protozoans and those sorts of pathogens that are readily found in water polluted with water fowl waste.

OK well what is a big enough space? I can always heat my garage. I suppose.

There is no easy answer to this. The animal won't drop dead instantly if placed in a 10 x 10 foot enclosure. Yet, if given 10 acres, they would walk it all. So what is big enough? For an adult sulcata? Every person will have different "feelings" about this. For years I've been a student of the island giants, Galapagos and Aldabras, and I believe that one of the most common mistakes that zoos make when housing these two species is keeping them in tiny enclosures.

So how much room does a sulcata "need"? Mine were housed in an 8000 square foot pen with a heated night box. My climate allows for them to come out and roam daily even in winter. They would choose to stay in the box on a cold 55 degree rainy day, two or three times throughout our entire winter, but then it would be sunny and 70 the next day and they'd be out doing laps in the giant enclosure. They can certainly survive and remain healthy and fit in less than 8000 square feet, but they usually do not remain healthy and fit when confined to small areas like sheds, garages, or basements for months at a time while there is snow and freezing temps outside all winter. The typical result is bladder stones and constipation. Like horses, tortoises rely on locomotion to keep things moving through the gut. Confining them to small spaces hampers this movement, and the typical cold temp make it worse. These guys come from a tropical region. A cold winter day is 88 degrees. Most of the year, their weather is like Phoenix AZ in summer. This is why they live primarily underground in the wild. They'd cook at the surface.

How much room is enough? My answer is around 50x50 feet where the ground is 80+ degrees and they have a warmer area to go to when sunshine isn't available. Its fine to coop them up for a week or two in winter. Its not fine to coop them up for months on end. This is why I say there is no practical way to keep giant tortoises in a frozen climate. Elon Musk could build a 10,000 square foot, insulated, floor heated, super well lit, tortoise paradise, and house them in Alaska. I can not.

Why will a DHP cause pyramiding? I ask just because I have read that they are the most efficient heating method because of the kind of radiation they give off. For my lizards I provide incandescents and dhps, so they can choose which kind of heat they want throughout the day, and it has made a difference.
I have che and rhps on hand though, so I'll use them instead, just never heard about pyramiding from dhp.

Because of the kind of radiation they give off. It is very desiccating and dries out the carapace which is what causes pyramiding. These are fine for lizards and snakes, but not good for animals that carry a shell on their back. RHPs and CHEs give off longer wave radiation that penetrates better and is less desiccating to the surface.

I will read it! Thank you!
And yes I know, your information is very helpful. I am confident I can apply it and take care of the little one properly, just got to nail down her first enclosure, and then I'll get some plans down for the summer, and her heated building.
There is very little I wouldn't do for my animals, I can be a bit extreme, which is probably what you need to be to keep an animal this size.

I hope the info helps. I have no doubt you will take excellent care of this baby while it is small. The problems comes when they get bigger and care becomes untenable for 99% of people. That is why almost all of them end up getting re-homed as they grow. It is overwhelming to most people, and you just can't imagine what its like until you have this giant, destructive, monstrous eating machine tearing up your efforts at containment and often damaging itself in the process.

I wish you good luck. Feel free to ask more questions, and keep us posted as your journey progresses.

 

[vladimir]

Hi, we're in Pennsylvania with a 100+lb, 8 year old sulcata. This enclosure lasted about 5 years:

Planning new indoor enclosure

I figured I'd start my own thread because I'm sure I will have tons of questions. Vladimir is going on 3 years old now and is outgrowing his current indoor enclosure, a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. I'd like to build him a permanent indoor enclosure in a spare room, and we're fortunate to...

tortoiseforum.org

He has now upgraded to a dedicated outdoor shed: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-an-outdoor-winter-sulcata-shed.204226/page-2#post-2072753

It's never big enough, but my advice is to go as big as you possibly can, as early as possible, and let them grow into it. Building new enclosures every few years gets old quickly.

 

[Len B]

Ok so you know about how crazy MD weather can be.
How do you keep them outside all year? What does your set up consist of? How do you source your food in the winter?
Sorry for all the questions.

Purely curious, is there a reason you ended up with all males 😅

And wow what a big boy! 26 years old right? That's amazing. I have a 28 year old painted turtle, but he's probably only got a few years left. I really love that I'm going to have a lifelong companion with this tortoise. I am fully expecting my Hermanns to live up to 70, which means I'll have him when I'm 80, if I make it that long. Right now I have him being left to my baby cousin Bella after she turns 18, before 18 Hermann would be with my older cousin Holly, should some unfortunate accident befall me.

They each have their own area with insulated heated houses. The houses are heated using different heaters in each house. They all have an oil filled electric radiator, 2 have a CHE, 3 have a radiant chicken brooder heater. And they each have a Stanfield heat mat with enough unheated floor space so they can get off the mat. I grow a lot of their food during spring and summer. I harvest some of it and dry it to rehydrate and feed during the winter months. I've had females but with even only one male there are going to be problems. Male sulcatas are one of the horniest animals I've ever seen. And I don't want to be a breeder. A few years ago I had 2 males and 3 females and they all got along fine in the open yard. But then came the eggs. I hatched some because I knew someone that would take the hatchlings. Anyway the 3 females and the male are now in Florida. I do have 2 of Walkers offspring that hatched out after they got to Florida. Earlier this past summer I had another female that I had given away years ago but it came back. I found a home for her with a TFO member. Who died not long after getting her. The tortoise is now living with the owners of Gordon's Pet Shop in Warsaw VA. The pet shop is named after their first Sulcata, Gordon. And they aren't going to breed her.

 

[ryan57]

300 gallons is too small for a 4 inch? The 300 gallon stock tank I am referencing is around 7×7 and would fit in my garage. I can also make an enclosed lid for it, I've done a lot like that before.
I could always get it a 8×4 PVC from Kages as a temporary enclosure, I have my adult Hermann's in one of those, it's just $1500 I don't want to spend right now, got to save for a few months first, but that I'd what I was planning to move her up to eventually. My idea was to do an 8×4 on one wall and fit it to the corner so she has 6 feet on the other side as well. So an 8×4 & 6×2.5 joined together. That's probably the largest indoor enclosure i can do before moving into the garage for the 10×10 and so on.

Sorry I should have clarified, she won't be outside 24/7 until she's the proper size, and if I am certain I can maintain humidity and temps properly. I'm not just going to build her a cage and chuck her outside 😅 I'm looking into building a mini greenhouse over an 8×4 garden bed, and then anytime she needs an upgrade I just attach a second one, expand to an 8×8, then an 8×16, you get the picture, and eventually I'll need to build a large outdoor area.

Sorry I didn't mean sharing. My birds free range and get into everything, so if the ducks wander in they'll get in the water but not by design. I've already built them their own pond.
And just as an extra thing, I get my flock tested for parasites regularly. They have never had any, even during the muddy seasons.

OK well what is a big enough space? I can always heat my garage. I suppose.
And if not for heat lamp, what do I use? Am I just relying on ambient temps? Radiating heat panels? I'm assuming the issue is the focused heat on a small area. I can counteract that.

Well I'm definitely not trying to imitate cut Facebook photos 🤣
How huge? I can modify a room in my house. I know they can go through drywall so I'd need to figure out a more secure barrier. Solid wood?

My opinion is from reading and experience, it's the same as the bearded dragon substrate debate.
IMHO it is better to try and imitate nature as close as possible, including substrate. When's the last time you've seen an animal walking around on a single material, or specifically in the beardies case, paper towels or tile.

i use a blend of substrates for all of my animals. Coconut fiber and coir held too much water, and would become sort of swampy. Orchid bark molded and I am allergic to it. Forrest floor worked fine, but didn't hold burrows well for my Hermann’s and other burrowing pets.
But organic soil when blended with other materials like sand, and forest floor holds humidity but allows excess water to drain. It holds burrows, and I've never had an animal get impacted or ill on it. This includes my tortoise, bearded dragon, bts, Leopard gecko, etc. I've kept dragons on a blend of soils for 10 years.
And of course you adjust the moisture in the soil according to the species, so my dragon has ambient humidity of 35-40%, while my Meruke BTS has humidity between 70-80%

I've used organic potting soil for 10 years with no issues. It's not the kind of fluffy soil that has a ton of stuff broken down in it, it's just plain dirt with some mulch. You've just got to check all lables thoroughly. I buy a specific brand, I'll try to find it and post it later.

But in this instance I'll defer to your knowledge for the baby sulcata, and I'll pick up some coconut coir later, forest floor still ok? Anything else I should mix in. I like to add microfauna to my enclosures for bioactivity so a mix of substrates is important.

How big a shed are we talking? I was thinking one pretty low to the ground, say 4 feet, maybe dug into the ground. I was thinking somewhere along the lines of 15-20ft×10. I'd build it to the proper specifications. Like I said if it's not good to keep them outdoors all year, even with a place to warm up, I won't. I just need the actual specs. Under my back porch is open right now, just covered with a trellis. It is 30×15, so 450 square foot. I could put walls and insulation on that as well. I have a lot of property to play with, I am very fortunate.

I don't want to skip over cautionary tales, cautionary tales are what help us to learn from past mistakes and do better in the future.
I just meant I didn't want negativity. Warnings, yes. Advice, yes. Knowledge I don't have, yes. Just no outright you're an idiot for even considering it negativity. People are really passionate and that is awesome, I just find a lot of the times especially with tortoises for some reason, conversations like this can turn semi-hostile and I just don't have the energy to deal with it.

And nothing you've said thus far is what I am talking about. You've politely but firmly spelled out several subjects I need to consider and I appreciate it. I'm not discouraged, i just know I am a novice and need to do more "research"
As you said there are so many sources of bad info, I'm just trying to find the right ones.

why will a DHP cause pyramiding? I ask just because I have read that they are the most efficient heating method because of the kind of radiation they give off. For my lizards I provide incandescents and dhps, so they can choose which kind of heat they want throughout the day, and it has made a difference.
I have che and rhps on hand though, so I'll use them instead, just never heard about pyramiding from dhp.

I will read it! Thank you!
And yes I know, your information is very helpful. I am confident I can apply it and take care of the little one properly, just got to nail down her first enclosure, and then I'll get some plans down for the summer, and her heated building.
There is very little I wouldn't do for my animals, I can be a bit extreme, which is probably what you need to be to keep an animal this size.

I think that space and movement / walking is more a requirement than many people realize. I am not nearly as experienced as most on this forum and only have had my first tortoises for less than 2 years but I have paid very close attention to them in that time... my 4" tortoise could walk/wander over a 1/4 mile in an afternoon so what is a 300 gallon container? My young hatchling that is 62 grams and growing more slowly/normally can comfortably walk over 50 yards in 45min while stopping to eat. A dedicated large room is more a minimum. I also agree with Tom about the lights as they get bigger (as observed first hand) because if I don't cover Stump with a blanket under basking bulbs he (I know he's a he now, Lol) began to always move away so we switched to an oil heater like Tom used in his outdoor enclosure plans and now he basks comfortably. The benefit I notice most is their digestive tract. When my biggest one Stump (1yr 7month old 17.5lb sulcata) doesn't want to go out he doesn't poop some of those days but always does when he walks. Large enclosure is an understatement for health especially when winters are cold. Luckily I could dedicate a 30'x40' space indoors downstairs to them (completely separated of course) for winter during the day. Kind of an indoor heated yard with stuff to eat. Doubles as a space to bring the potted and hanging plants into for the season until we build a large conservatory room.

As far as heating, both of mine absolutely prefer sitting in the sun on a nice day or more accurately sitting under a bush looking AT the sun or their second best recently seems to be scooting up near the wood stove when it's on. Powerful radiant heat sources ARE different. They just plain feel different to us and must feel good to them.

One note about how different these 2 tortoises are: the smaller one acts like many I've read about on this forum. Releases waste in the soak, poops in the water, crepuscular pacing in the morning for food, doesn't duck his head in almost ever, bold and not afraid of anything while Stump is the most reserved, easy going, gentle giant, sweet, boy tortoise. He never did any of those things. The little one was such a fricking terror I almost named it "demon" because it was obviously going to be a terror (still makes me tired watching it) but settled on "figgy" because when Stump saw it he acted like I had a fig newton for him to take a chomp out of and the coloring is identical.



Figgy's legs are wicked long and he came out of the egg ready to climb.

 

[Nellie Rose]

Thank you for the thoughtful responses. Most people get mad and call me names when I don't tell them what they want to hear, so I'm glad you didn't take my words as offensive.

Well that's rude...
I asked questions and you answered 😅 I can't imagine getting offended, as long as the response isn't delivered in like an aggressive or malicious way. I only said what I said about the "this isn't a good idea" convo because I had some bad experiences with forums when I was younger. People calling me a dumb kid because I kept my 3 inch hermanns in a 50 gallon tank. All of the info 10 year old me could find said that 10 gallons per inch of shell.
Hermann is another story I'll make another post about but now he lives in a 7×3×2 from Kages. The biggest enclosure I have for one of the smallest animals 🤣 tiny doesn't always mean easy I suppose. But he's thriving.

7x7 feet is certainly big enough for a 4 inch sulcata, especially if you close it in, but that is not 300 gallons. I'm doing the math and 7x7 isn't 300 gallons unless the walls are about 10 inches tall, and that would be impossible to hang your heating and lighting in. You need at least 24 inches tall. The formula I've been using since the 80s is: L x W x H / 231 = gallons. An 8x4x2 foot closed chamber would be 478 gallons, for example. 96 x 48 x 24 = 110,592. 110,592 divided by 231 = 478.75 gallons.

Yes, I'd need to build a sort of cone shaped or A frame lid, with a door I can open for feeding and cleaning. Maybe out of wood and some opaque plastic sheets? The stock tank just seemed like the most cost effective option as a temporary enclosure, since I'm going to need to build such a large outdoor space. Which is fine by me! I'd just love to save for that build 😅

Your big "L" shaped enclosure will work for a while as long as you can keep the temps and humidity up in it.

Cool. I'm going to do the same for my monitor once he is big enough, then i can stack them.
They do better by any measure when kept in the correct conditions mostly indoors as babies, with gradually more and more time outside as they gain size.
Ok, what size before moving outdoors is safe?

I'm not worried about parasites. A tortoise isn't going to be able to get infected with most bird parasites. I'm more concerned about bacteria, fungus, protozoans and those sorts of pathogens that are readily found in water polluted with water fowl waste.

yeah I figured, just thought I'd mention it. The ducks have their own pond, there are only 3 and I've rigged up a pretty powerful filter so the water stays pretty clean, but the droppings are still there obviously, just can't see them.
What I meant is they get into everything, and a tortoise enclosure isn't exactly going to be fort Knox, like I don't need the same 8 foot wire walls and tin roof as I need for the birds, so unless I fully enclose it there's really no way to keep them out unless I electrify the fence, and even then, the Guinea hens will be able to fly in, although they make significantly less mess than the ducks. It's one thing I'll likely ask for suggestions on once I start construction on THE outdoor pen.

There is no easy answer to this. The animal won't drop dead instantly if placed in a 10 x 10 foot enclosure. Yet, if given 10 acres, they would walk it all. So what is big enough? For an adult sulcata? Every person will have different "feelings" about this. For years I've been a student of the island giants, Galapagos and Aldabras, and I believe that one of the most common mistakes that zoos make when housing these two species is keeping them in tiny enclosures.

I think that's what I had in my head originally is the enclosures you see in zoos. The biggest one I have seen was 40×20 feet for a Galapagos so I assumed the same would be fine for a sulcata. Makes sense when you think about it, tortoises rely on walking so much to move their digestive tracts.

How much room is enough? My answer is around 50x50 feet where the ground is 80+ degrees and they have a warmer area to go to when sunshine isn't available. Its fine to coop them up for a week or two in winter. Its not fine to coop them up for months on end. This is why I say there is no practical way to keep giant tortoises in a frozen climate. Elon Musk could build a 10,000 square foot, insulated, floor heated, super well lit, tortoise paradise, and house them in Alaska. I can not.

Maryland only stays below freezing for maybe a solid month? And then the rest of the winter is just wet.
Perhaps I could build a large shed, with a sort of patio area with a low roof, 3-4 feet off the ground, and run some heat panels out to keep the ground warm, that would give him maybe a 30×10 space with warm ground to roam during the winter, and then she'll still have room in the rest of the giant pen. Trying to think of ways to heat the ground up.

Because of the kind of radiation they give off. It is very desiccating and dries out the carapace which is what causes pyramiding. These are fine for lizards and snakes, but not good for animals that carry a shell on their back. RHPs and CHEs give off longer wave radiation that penetrates better and is less desiccating to the surface.

Ok I didn't know that. I'm mostly a lizard girl, I have about 28 lizards right now, I breed Leachianus, high end cresties, white eye croc skinks, and some high end phelsuma grandis from my pet pair of giant day geckos. The DHPs made a big different in their moods and activity, I was shocked, because temperatures remained the same as with the old bulb. Only change was the radiation.
But I suppose it makes sense, as DHPS penetrate better for lizards, but lizards don't have living armor covering their backs.

I hope the info helps. I have no doubt you will take excellent care of this baby while it is small. The problems comes when they get bigger and care becomes untenable for 99% of people. That is why almost all of them end up getting re-homed as they grow. It is overwhelming to most people, and you just can't imagine what its like until you have this giant, destructive, monstrous eating machine tearing up your efforts at containment and often damaging itself in the process.

Yes it helps! Thank you, lots to think on.
Well one thing I was thinking of, even if I end up needing to rehome 😭 I think I can at least provide the best home in the meantime compared to others who may adopt her. That's why I didn't want to buy from a breeder, there are soooo many to adopt, it's crazy.

I wish you good luck. Feel free to ask more questions, and keep us posted as your journey progresses.

Thank you! I will.
Just a heads up I'll definitely ask stupid questions and have dumb ideas.
Thanks again!

 

[Nellie Rose]

Hi, we're in Pennsylvania with a 100+lb, 8 year old sulcata. This enclosure lasted about 5 years:

Planning new indoor enclosure

I figured I'd start my own thread because I'm sure I will have tons of questions. Vladimir is going on 3 years old now and is outgrowing his current indoor enclosure, a 300 gallon rubbermaid stock tank. I'd like to build him a permanent indoor enclosure in a spare room, and we're fortunate to...

tortoiseforum.org

He has now upgraded to a dedicated outdoor shed: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/planning-an-outdoor-winter-sulcata-shed.204226/page-2#post-2072753

It's never big enough, but my advice is to go as big as you possibly can, as early as possible, and let them grow into it. Building new enclosures every few years gets old quickly.

Thank you. I'll read the thread. Still in the planning stage right now, but I'm going to start with the 4×2×2, because I know it is closed so I can maintain the environment as perfectly as possible at least for a few months. She will be able to walk around the room a couple hours a day also, I spend a lot of time in the reptile room because I have so many, so she can be out when I am able to supervise, as long as she doesn't try to bite my toes like my hermanns does.

Thanks! Just getting a start, but planning and saving for the future! It's going to be a lot but I think it's going to be worth it.

 

[Nellie Rose]

They each have their own area with insulated heated houses. The houses are heated using different heaters in each house. They all have an oil filled electric radiator, 2 have a CHE, 3 have a radiant chicken brooder heater. And they each have a Stanfield heat mat with enough unheated floor space so they can get off the mat. I grow a lot of their food during spring and summer. I harvest some of it and dry it to rehydrate and feed during the winter months. I've had females but with even only one male there are going to be problems. Male sulcatas are one of the horniest animals I've ever seen. And I don't want to be a breeder. A few years ago I had 2 males and 3 females and they all got along fine in the open yard. But then came the eggs. I hatched some because I knew someone that would take the hatchlings. Anyway the 3 females and the male are now in Florida. I do have 2 of Walkers offspring that hatched out after they got to Florida. Earlier this past summer I had another female that I had given away years ago but it came back. I found a home for her with a TFO member. Who died not long after getting her. The tortoise is now living with the owners of Gordon's Pet Shop in Warsaw VA. The pet shop is named after their first Sulcata, Gordon. And they aren't going to breed her.

Thank you for expanding. Our climates are virtually the same and the weather is probably the #1 thing I'll be fighting.

I thought hermanns were the horniest things ever 🤣 my male hermanns was such a nightmare as an adolescent, and it lasted several years. He is 10 now, so still young, but not a teen, and has calmed down a bit but still has an attitude. With the research I've done, and I could be wrong, but it seems he is just "frustrated"... 🤣
Anyway, thanks again!

 

[Nellie Rose]

I think that space and movement / walking is more a requirement than many people realize. I am not nearly as experienced as most on this forum and only have had my first tortoises for less than 2 years but I have paid very close attention to them in that time... my 4" tortoise could walk/wander over a 1/4 mile in an afternoon so what is a 300 gallon container? My young hatchling that is 62 grams and growing more slowly/normally can comfortably walk over 50 yards in 45min while stopping to eat. A dedicated large room is more a minimum. I also agree with Tom about the lights as they get bigger (as observed first hand) because if I don't cover Stump with a blanket under basking bulbs he (I know he's a he now, Lol) began to always move away so we switched to an oil heater like Tom used in his outdoor enclosure plans and now he basks comfortably. The benefit I notice most is their digestive tract. When my biggest one Stump (1yr 7month old 17.5lb sulcata) doesn't want to go out he doesn't poop some of those days but always does when he walks. Large enclosure is an understatement for health especially when winters are cold. Luckily I could dedicate a 30'x40' space indoors downstairs to them (completely separated of course) for winter during the day. Kind of an indoor heated yard with stuff to eat. Doubles as a space to bring the potted and hanging plants into for the season until we build a large conservatory room.

As far as heating, both of mine absolutely prefer sitting in the sun on a nice day or more accurately sitting under a bush looking AT the sun or their second best recently seems to be scooting up near the wood stove when it's on. Powerful radiant heat sources ARE different. They just plain feel different to us and must feel good to them.

One note about how different these 2 tortoises are: the smaller one acts like many I've read about on this forum. Releases waste in the soak, poops in the water, crepuscular pacing in the morning for food, doesn't duck his head in almost ever, bold and not afraid of anything while Stump is the most reserved, easy going, gentle giant, sweet, boy tortoise. He never did any of those things. The little one was such a fricking terror I almost named it "demon" because it was obviously going to be a terror (still makes me tired watching it) but settled on "figgy" because when Stump saw it he acted like I had a fig newton for him to take a chomp out of and the coloring is identical.

View attachment 362716
View attachment 362717View attachment 362718
Figgy's legs are wicked long and he came out of the egg ready to climb.

What a cute baby!!!
Very good info.
Intriguing about him not wanting to relieve himself in the cold? One thing I've noticed is my hermanns never poops in his burrows or hide, he always walks out, relieves himself, then goes back in to hide.

And Figgy sounds like my Johann Herrmann 🤣
My little boy is a monster and he's only 5 inches and will stay 5 inches. I love him though, he's been with me 10 years now, since I was 10 myself, and I wouldn't trade him for the sweetest calmest tort in the world, we've been through a lot together.
But he is a terror, he bites my toes and demands a treat every time I walk in the room or he won't stop raming the front glass panels of his enclosure unless I give him a treat. I'll bring a blueberry with me to the room to placate him, definitely a bad behavior I have enforced.

Thanks again!
I'm working on the temporary enclosure tonight to I'll try to post some pictures

 

[Tom]

Just a heads up I'll definitely ask stupid questions and have dumb ideas.

I doubt your questions will be stupid or that your ideas will be dumb, but I understand the sentiment here.

She will be able to walk around the room a couple hours a day also, I spend a lot of time in the reptile room because I have so many, so she can be out when I am able to supervise, as long as she doesn't try to bite my toes like my hermanns does.

This is a bad practice. Its not safe, and no amount of supervision can make it safe. Loose on the floor is dangerous in so many ways, and it almost always ends in something terrible happening in one or more ways. Keep your tortoises in their tortoise enclosures, and make those enclosures large enough to meet their needs. Don't learn this terrible lesson the hard way. We see it here all the time. People argue; "Well l supervise closely and make sure it is safe..." Its too cold down there, too slick, and no one thinks their tortoise is going to find and ingest all the things they find down there. One lady showed us an x-ray of a two inch sewing pin inside her tortoise. No one in her house sews, and she had no idea where the needle even came from in the first place, much less how her tortoise gained access to it and ate it, yet she professed to supervise very closely. Tortoises get kicked and stepped on, escape through doors left open by someone other than the tortoise keeper, one got its head smashed in the door jamb, and another one here on TFO just recently died because something fell on it... Just don't do it. Same thing outside. Loose in the yard is a great way to lose your tortoise. We see it several times a year here. "I just looked away for one second and..." Keep all tortoises in safe enclosures that are designed, built and maintained just for them. As the crude saying goes: **** around, and you'll find out. I don't want you to find out. Its gut wrenching. Learn this lesson the easy way, not the hard way.

I'll bring a blueberry with me to the room to placate him...

Another bad practice from the internet. Don't feed fruit to either of these species. Is not good for them. The sugars can wreak havoc with their gut flora and fauna. People counter this with: "Oh, I only give it to him as a treat once in a while..." If its so bad that you can only give it once in a while, why give it at all. Use something that is either good for the tortoise, or at least harmless, like a cucumber slice for example, as a treat. Skip the sugars for Herman and sulcata.

 

[Nellie Rose]

This is a bad practice. Its not safe, and no amount of supervision can make it safe. Loose on the floor is dangerous in so many ways, and it almost always ends in something terrible happening in one or more ways. Keep your tortoises in their tortoise enclosures, and make those enclosures large enough to meet their needs. Don't learn this terrible lesson the hard way. We see it here all the time. People argue; "Well l supervise closely and make sure it is safe..." Its too cold down there, too slick, and no one thinks their tortoise is going to find and ingest all the things they find down there. One lady showed us an x-ray of a two inch sewing pin inside her tortoise. No one in her house sews, and she had no idea where the needle even came from in the first place, much less how her tortoise gained access to it and ate it, yet she professed to supervise very closely. Tortoises get kicked and stepped on, escape through doors left open by someone other than the tortoise keeper, one got its head smashed in the door jamb, and another one here on TFO just recently died because something fell on it... Just don't do it. Same thing outside. Loose in the yard is a great way to lose your tortoise. We see it several times a year here. "I just looked away for one second and..." Keep all tortoises in safe enclosures that are designed, built and maintained just for them. As the crude saying goes: **** around, and you'll find out. I don't want you to find out. Its gut wrenching. Learn this lesson the easy way, not the hard way.

I understand, thanks! I let my Herrmann walk around in a penned off area, but I will leave the little one in the enclosure unless I am handling her, and even then handling will be a minimum and I'll be sitting on the ground since her enclosure is on the ground.

Another bad practice from the internet. Don't feed fruit to either of these species. Is not good for them. The sugars can wreak havoc with their gut flora and fauna. People counter this with: "Oh, I only give it to him as a treat once in a while..." If its so bad that you can only give it once in a while, why give it at all. Use something that is either good for the tortoise, or at least harmless, like a cucumber slice for example, as a treat. Skip the sugars for Herman and sulcata.

Yes, unfortunately 10 years ago everything I read and watched said 10% fruit for hermanns 😞 and I was 10 years old.
It's a bad habit I am working on breaking, he gets maybe 1-2 blueberries a week, but I've switched over to bringing him a slice of squash as often as I can.

It's taken a long time to learn what I have about my tortoise, and even then there's so many contradictions. My bad experiences as a kid made me avoid forums.

 

[Tom]

I understand, thanks! I let my Herrmann walk around in a penned off area, but I will leave the little one in the enclosure unless I am handling her, and even then handling will be a minimum and I'll be sitting on the ground since her enclosure is on the ground.

Yes, unfortunately 10 years ago everything I read and watched said 10% fruit for hermanns 😞 and I was 10 years old.
It's a bad habit I am working on breaking, he gets maybe 1-2 blueberries a week, but I've switched over to bringing him a slice of squash as often as I can.

It's taken a long time to learn what I have about my tortoise, and even then there's so many contradictions. My bad experiences as a kid made me avoid forums.

You are not alone. All of us learned that old wrong info. I couldn't grow a smooth tortoise for the first 20 years. It took a long time and a lot of effort to learn why that old info was wrong and what was actually right. I come here and share what I have learned in the hope that other people won't have to go through what I have been through in my tortoise keeping journey.

I think handling your tortoise is fine. It desensitizes them and that is a good thing.

Here is a previous thread that you might find some useful info in:

Torts and the cold weather

As far as I am concerned this subject has been beat to death in my life. However, a possibly new keeper just pm'd me asking about that same subject, and I realize a new keeper is right to have temperature concerns in a cold state, and a new keeper just might be better off getting more than just...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Nellie Rose]

You are not alone. All of us learned that old wrong info. I couldn't grow a smooth tortoise for the first 20 years. It took a long time and a lot of effort to learn why that old info was wrong and what was actually right. I come here and share what I have learned in the hope that other people won't have to go through what I have been through in my tortoise keeping journey.

I think handling your tortoise is fine. It desensitizes them and that is a good thing.

Here is a previous thread that you might find some useful info in:

Torts and the cold weather

As far as I am concerned this subject has been beat to death in my life. However, a possibly new keeper just pm'd me asking about that same subject, and I realize a new keeper is right to have temperature concerns in a cold state, and a new keeper just might be better off getting more than just...

tortoiseforum.org

I got lucky. Despite the old info my Herrmann has a pretty smooth shell. And he definitely wasn't kept in high humidity as a hatchling, everything said 40-50% humidity back then I remember vividly. Then when he was 2 I took him to the vet and the vet mentioned some mild pyramiding, which I had never heard of, and once he explained I immediately put two humid hides in the enclosure and halted that. Since he was small, the rest of his shell like, caught up with the top scutes, and he looks almost perfect now.
I'll post some pictures later, even though this is the Sulcata thread.
I'm working on the sulcatas temporary enclosure now.