At what point does euthanasia become a valid option?

Near_Vana

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Hey, all. Long time lurker, first time poster. Big fan of the site, so I'm hoping to get some advice from those more experienced and wiser than I.

Essentially, I am wondering at what point do you declare the quality of life to be so poor that euthanasia becomes a justifiable decision?

The reason I ask is because I have been given a rather poorly female Redfoot called Maul who is around 30 years old, and has a long list of fairly serious ailments. She was given to my boss under the guise that she was in good health, which was a big lie. I think the worst thing she has wrong is that she is eggbound and has been in such state for her entire adult life. According to her last owners son, she had never once laid an egg in their ~25 years of keeping her.

Since my partner and I are fairly verse in Tortoises and their care, he asked us if we could get her better. We have had her for around 4 months now, and although she has made some small improvements, she is still not doing well and has gotten worse in other aspects. We're fully aware that her condition is not going to improve without medical intervention, however the cheapest we have been quoted treatment for is an eyewatering sum of £880, but were told there was a chance it could be even higher. Unfortunately, they don't accept a payment plan either.

She is also blind due to the last owner keeping her in a 3x1ft vivarium with a basking light at her head level, mounted sideways. She has stomatisis, severe MBD (warped spine, odd gait/posture, deformed carapace) and a bad R.I. She is constantly wheezing and is hardly active. She lays in her hide all day and night, only walking around her enclosure for 10-15 minutes, 2-3 times a week. If we approach her, she barely pays any attention to us. Her breathing is constantly laboured, and her tail/entire rear end is incredible buldged. She seems to have trouble passing urine, probably due to the eggs becoming calcified and blocking her cloaca. I can tell she is in a lot of pain.

Without treatment, I am aware that she is likely to develop further complications that she will eventually succumb to, therefore I started wondering, at what point the suffering is too great to be considered fair on the animal? Is this a personal decision or are there some kind of 'rules' people go by to determine this?

I would love for Maul to have the chance to recover, but I can't see it happening, and I don't see her sticking around long enough for us to save up the kind of cash needed for her treatment. The economy is horrendous and the price of simply living right now is jawdropping, with it looking even bleaker in the coming months.

Any thoughts, opinions and advice is welcome. Thanks for taking the time to read this.
 

ZEROPILOT

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MBD by itself is an extremely painful condition. And is just one of many issues. It sounds about as bad as it gets.
I haven't seen the tort. I can't make an assessment in person. But I'd have euthanasia on the short list.
Continued life is probably just continued suffering.
 

Maggie3fan

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From what you have said regarding her condition of suffering, I would not hesitate to end it.
Tammy, I agree with you. Euthanasia is a hard choice to make. Most of us are experienced keepers who have had to make that decision. I would not hesitate to euthanize her now...MBD alone is extremely painful.
 

wellington

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I, like Zeropilot can't really say without seeing her. But then again, I would have taken her to a vet to see if they could have helped her. It's a shame and sad that people get pets and don't consider the cost of vet care and so they just don't use them.
Sadly this poor tortoise seems to have owners that shouldn't have animals period.
Euthanasia in my opinion is when everything else has been exhausted and failed and there is no hope of the animal ever being relieved of pain.
 

Near_Vana

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MBD by itself is an extremely painful condition. And is just one of many issues. It sounds about as bad as it gets.
I haven't seen the tort. I can't make an assessment in person. But I'd have euthanasia on the short list.
Continued life is probably just continued suffering.
Thanks for the reply. I'm completely aware of how bad MBD is - I work at a bioactive supply shop, so people often bring us their sick animals with this idea that we can 'help' it... All we ever say is go to a vet. I know it's expensive, but we aren't trained like that. The condition is awful, and people let it get to such points that the animal just has zero quality of life, it's disgusting. Upon seeing Maul, I was angry.

Here are a few photos of her for reference. I'm aware that the substrate is thin on one side of the enclosure, it's deeper on the end she stays on the most, I was just short on substrate at the time, but she has more now.
 

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Maggie3fan

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Is she warm enuf? By that I mean 29 degrees or more? Cool side never below 26 celcius. They are tropical tortoises and shouldn't be cold.
 

Near_Vana

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Tammy, I agree with you. Euthanasia is a hard choice to make. Most of us are experienced keepers who have had to make that decision. I would not hesitate to euthanize her now...MBD alone is extremely painful.
I have a good amount of experience, I also have two graeca (kept well away and seperated from Maul, don't worry about that), but I have never had to think about euthanasia before meeting Maul. To put it simply, she is the sickest Tortoise I have ever seen in person, in front of my own eyes.

I suppose I am slighty hesitant because of this reason. I'm aware that these creatures are super resilliant, and I have seen some Tortoises make some amazing recoveriesģ
Is she warm enuf? By that I mean 29 degrees or more? Cool side never below 26 celcius. They are tropical tortoises and shouldn't be cold.
Yes. Ambient temperature is constantly 30 during the day, and drop to 27°c at night. She also has access to a 'basking' spot that sits at 34°c. I'm 100% aware of their origin and correct husbandry, she isn't our first or only Tortoise. She is never cold. I didn't do this to her, some other neglectful dumbass did it and simply abandoned her on my friend. We know exactly how she should ve cared for, but the point is, is there any real point if she is this far gone.
 

TammyJ

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In my opinion, she is too far gone to be retrievable in a way that is humane. By that I mean, you could decide to keep her and keep trying, and while it may be better for you to feel that you are "not giving up on her", it won't be better for her to keep on living blind and in pain and torment every minute while you keep her breathing and moving. It's an awful situation, I realize that!
 

Near_Vana

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In my opinion, she is too far gone to be retrievable in a way that is humane. By that I mean, you could decide to keep her and keep trying, and while it may be better for you to feel that you are "not giving up on her", it won't be better for her to keep on living blind and in pain and torment every minute while you keep her breathing and moving. It's an awful situation, I realize that!
I must admit, I feared that this would be the responses I would get... Man, it sucks. I feel so sorry for her, but I completely understand and agree with everything you said. I just wish we could have helped her more, but there is only so much we can do with what we're given... Thank you for the understanding and advice - I'm taking everyones words on board for Mauls sake. I think I will call my vets tomorrow and request they end her suffering.
 

Near_Vana

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I sure hope mine never is that ill. I simply don't have the makeup to make that decision. I truly feel for you and the the pain in that decision.

Good luck,
Thank you. She is a case of pretty extreme, prolonged neglect, so take good care of 'em and they'll never have to face the daily torture Maul has to live through every day. Keep them happy and you'll have a friend for life.
 

Near_Vana

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I, like Zeropilot can't really say without seeing her. But then again, I would have taken her to a vet to see if they could have helped her. It's a shame and sad that people get pets and don't consider the cost of vet care and so they just don't use them.
Sadly this poor tortoise seems to have owners that shouldn't have animals period.
Euthanasia in my opinion is when everything else has been exhausted and failed and there is no hope of the animal ever being relieved of pain.
I have posted a few photos of her in another reply, if you'd like to see for yourself.

I agree. Unfortunately, we're unable to have her examined right now due to the state of the economy and the price rises that are happening as a result. What used to be £80 for a basic check-up is now £105, excluding any treatments... And she needs a lot of treatments.

As for why her last owner never took her to a vet before dumping her on us, I don't have a clue. She was a 70+ year old lady who didn't even know that she was a Redfoot. When asked, she told us 'she has red on her and a black shell.' That's all. In lesser words, she was an ignorant, neglectful, cruel person who, like you said, should never, ever own any animals ever again.

Over the last 2 months, I have tried every avenue of help that I could think of. From sanctuaries, to zoos, to vets in neighbouring counties, but no one could help. I just feel guilty, like I'm giving up on her and discarding her.
 

wellington

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I have posted a few photos of her in another reply, if you'd like to see for yourself.

I agree. Unfortunately, we're unable to have her examined right now due to the state of the economy and the price rises that are happening as a result. What used to be £80 for a basic check-up is now £105, excluding any treatments... And she needs a lot of treatments.

As for why her last owner never took her to a vet before dumping her on us, I don't have a clue. She was a 70+ year old lady who didn't even know that she was a Redfoot. When asked, she told us 'she has red on her and a black shell.' That's all. In lesser words, she was an ignorant, neglectful, cruel person who, like you said, should never, ever own any animals ever again.

Over the last 2 months, I have tried every avenue of help that I could think of. From sanctuaries, to zoos, to vets in neighbouring counties, but no one could help. I just feel guilty, like I'm giving up on her and discarding her.
I did see the pictures. But pictures don't tell the whole story. Real life is the only way anyone could call the best step forward.
I guess what you will have to determine is does she act like she is in pain? If the answer is yes, then euthanasia would be the right way to go. If she doesn't appear to be in pain, walks, drinks, eats, etc, then do the best you can for her and let nature run its course.
Sorry for your position. I know it's not easy.
 

Near_Vana

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I did see the pictures. But pictures don't tell the whole story. Real life is the only way anyone could call the best step forward.
I guess what you will have to determine is does she act like she is in pain? If the answer is yes, then euthanasia would be the right way to go. If she doesn't appear to be in pain, walks, drinks, eats, etc, then do the best you can for her and let nature run its course.
Sorry for your position. I know it's not easy.
Ah, understood, my mistake! I assumed you wanted to see photos, but now I understand what you meant.

Sadly, yes, she behaves as though she is in considerable pain. Touching her rear end makes her trash around and ryn away. When she walks, she drags her left foot and has an odd limp, as if the leg is stiff. She does drink, but she hardly eats. I try to feed her three times a week, but she only has a few bites before losing interest.

Thank you very much for the kind words and advice, I appreciate all the help and understanding by everyone here. I will definitely do what is best for Mauls sake.
 

Near_Vana

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Update:

I made the phone call this afternoon. After a lengthy discussion with the vet, we came to the decision that euthanasia is the best option.

Maul has an appointment tomorrow afternoon at 1:30 to be put to sleep with an overdose of Ketamine. I have been told that we are allowed to take her body home, so that is probably what we will do.

Thank you all again for your advice. This is very hard, but I feel it's the right choice to make.
 

wellington

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It likely is the right choice, sounds like she was in constant pain. Sadly it was all left to go on too long before you got her.
I think it's the right decision at this point. Just love her on her way out.
 

AmandaF

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I’m so sorry, you have had to go through this. I suffer from chronic pain & would not wish it on any animal. Bless you for being so thoughtfu.
amanda
 

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