Best dog breed with torts

[Jacqui]

I think you need to pick the breed or breeds you really want and work backwards from there to find the "perfect" dog for you and your situation.

I am thinking that whether or not a dog is good around torts is in the end going to have diddley squat with the breed.

In my opinion it is going to be hit or miss, based on individual personality, regardless of breed.

This is the one fact that I would stress more then any other...it just depends on the individual dog. There is no magical breed who is going to be safe with the tortoises. You will need to find an animal that "appears" to have no interest in your tortoises, protect your tortoises, and work with the new dog to increase it's ignoring the tortoises. If at all possible, plan to never leave them alone together.

I have owned dogs all my life and could never imagine life without at least one cuddled next to me. None of our dogs are penned with a tortoise or a turtle. In the house, the dogs could with no real effort on their part get into the tortoise pens, but none choose to. Occasionally thru the years, turtles and tortoises have gotten loose in the house and also none of them was bothered by the dogs. Currently, these are terrier mixes, a coonhound, a Great P/Chow mix, and a black lab/shep mix. Past canines have been springers, a lab, a doberman, a coyote/dog mix, brussels griffon, and lhasa apso.

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. I've observed an old dog doesn't pay much attention to them but a pup or young dog is another story. Keep them apart.

Funny, the only issue we ever had was with a very elderly collie. She never bothered a living tortoise. Out under a tree by a pool, we had kept for a couple of years a pair of snapper turtle shells given to us. One day out of the blue, she decided those were the most perfect and delicious food ever. She chewed them both up. Thank goodness they were only shells. We had adopted her a couple of years before and this dog had never chewed on anything during that time...nor ever again.

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I have a lab and he doesnt even care about the torts, cats, lizards, or birds..

Its his personality/training, i dont think its his breed....

We had a lab who found a wild box turtle and brought it to us. He never left a mark on. That is surprising because this lab chewed everything it ever got it's mouth on, yet the turtle was not chewed.

All I can say is good luck, but always be ready for the day when the dog does what dogs tend to do, and goes after the tortoise. Never fully trust ANY dog with a tortoise.

 

[Laijla]

As a child I had a full grown adult RF that lived side by side in the backyard (through the years 1969-1987) with 2 collie mixes, a golden retriever mix and 3 chesapeake bay retrievers and we never separated them - dumb on our part but, but it never occurred to my parents ??? not one of those dogs EVER bothered our tortoise leaving us in our 'ignorant bliss.' My 13 pound 'sweet as pie, loves everything and everyone' havanese managed to break into my hatchling's enclosure and chew on him like a raw hide (tort survived thank goodness) 4+ months ago. I think it is a hard call - it would be individual to individual verse a breed for the most part imo. Our collies and especially our retrievers loved to chew and were pretty destructive dogs yet they never bothered the tort. My havanese is the least destructive dog I have ever had yet nearly killed my tort. My experience is its a very hard guess!
Laijla

 

[Maggie Cummings]

You said something that absolutely scares the hell outa me. Your very last line shows that you have no idea the damage a dog can do to a tortoise. They have (mostly) pointed snouts and very sharp teeth. They can do serious damage. Your male DT does not have those.
But I do understand you don't understand and you don't want to listen or believe. I wish Yvonne would say something maybe you would believe her experience...I see you don't believe mine.

This is what you said...

I doubt a small/medium dog would have any more success hurting her than he does.

So that's all I will say there is no point in beating you over the head with the obvious

 

[fifthdawn]

There can't be any garentee with dogs, but what you can do is minimize the probability that an attack with happen by focusing on the genetics of the breed. Breeds vary so much in personaility that many breeds are known for their intellgence, or friendliness, and other characteristics.

Your best bet is to go for a breed known for their high intellgence so it'll be easier for them to figure out their social role in the pack. Although intellgence is important, stay away from Border Collies. They're the smartest breed, but their high level of energy cause them to be destructive if their excercise requirement arn't met.

I'd say its best to go with golden retriever, labradors, papillons, or shetlands. They are amongst the highest in intellgence and only require low to moderate excercise. They rank top 10 in intellgence, affection, and is very accepting of strangers and small pets. These breeds are probably the best bet at minimizing the probablity of an attack.

 

[Shelly]

But I do understand you don't understand and you don't want to listen or believe.

I think it is maybe you that will not listen or understand.
A small/medium dog CAN NOT, under any circumstances, ever, even once in a lifetime, attack and kill a 20 pound tortoise quickly. Nope. Can't happen, Sorry, Don't believe you. Can't happen.
Perhaps if they were left to gnaw on it nonstop for hours, perhaps they could injure it, maybe even seriously.
We are not talking about a bunny or a ducky or a mousie. We are talking about a tortoise. They have this thing called a "shell" that protects them. They have hide as thick as a crocodile. 35,000,000 years of evolution wasn't for nothing, you know. They have survived eons with everything from Dinosaurs to lions to wolves to God knows what trying to eat them.
Once again, maybe if they chewed, and chewed, and chewed, and chewed, for a LONG period of time, they might draw blood.
I'm not talking about a hatchling, or some teeny little nothing. I'm talking big, strong, healthy animals that can protect themselves.
As a youngster, I worked for a Vet for 4 years. I never once, NOT ONCE, ever, saw an injury that a tort suffered because of a dog. Not once. Zero. Zip. Nada. Never happened. Ever.
Not saying it hasn't happened somewhere, at some time. But I would love to hear at least one first hand account of a large tortoise that was seriously injured by a small/medium dog that occurred after the animals had lived together for a period of time, and/or weren't seriously neglected.
I'm getting a dog. My main concern is that the dog will get aggressive with the torts, and I will need to get rid of the dog. That would suck, but that is the worst possible scenario. I have no fear whatsoever that my torts would be in danger. None. Why? because I will watch them diligently, and not leave them together until I am absolutely convinced that they are safe together. Please don't tell me "oh, they will never be safe". That's BS. A child, even an older kid of 10-12 years old, is FAR more vulnerable to a dog attack than my torts. So a kid should never ever be allowed to play with old Fido that you've had for 10 years because at the drop of a hat he could somehow transform into some psycho mad killing machine? Pffft!
(Last line of John's post deleted by Moderator - Y)

 

[Tom]

You've stepped way over the line. Its bad enough to be ignorant and risk the safety of your animals, but now you've decided to insult and taunt someone who is trying to prevent you from making a tragic mistake. The thing is, your torts will suffer for your ignorance and arrogance, not you. You deserve whatever happens to you, your torts deserve better.

 

[DonaTello's-Mom]

"Quote by Shelly deleted by mod - Y"

shame on you, what a terrible thing to say to Maggie. I am disgusted by you..............

 

[dmmj]

hello brickwall, how are you doing?

 

[APBT_Fanatic]

I have not had a chance to read this thread in full, nor do I know if I should even bother to respond to this; however, I will.

Shelly, I do not believe, nor could I recommend, a particular dog breed that is less apt to chew on, etc. a tortoise. We have had small dogs who bother the tortoises and we have had large dogs who have bothered the tortoise. While the larger dogs can do more quick chewing damage to a larger tortoise, any dog, any size, can hurt a tortoise. They can use their paws and mouths to get at the tortoise's softer body parts (head, legs, butt) and do serious damage. The smaller the dog, the smaller the mouth/paws, and the easier it is to stick them in there and hurt the tortoise. I am not sure about your tortoises, but my tortoises can NOT protect all their softer body parts, even when they are hiding in their shells.

I have a Box Turtle who has shell damage due to a dog, and I always see them (both turtles and tortoises) in the shelters as well, with shell damage.

While I do not recommend leaving your new dog with the tortoises unsupervised at all, perhaps it you look into adopting an older dog (not a puppy) and going through a good rescue who can help assess the dog with the tortoise (or maybe you could even foster the dog for a few weeks prior to adoption, to see how things will go).

Like I said, we have had both large and small dogs give us problems with our tortoises (trying to bother them, chew on them, and play with them). It is not a matter of which breed will leave the tortoises alone, but it depends on that particular dog's behavior towards them. Dogs of all sizes love tortoises, and as disgusting as it is, they sometimes like their poop too!

Lastly, in regards to your comment about a 12 yr old kid being more likely to be attacked by a dog than a tortoise is to be attacked by a dog, I would have to disagree with that as well. The majority of dogs are more KID FRIENDLY than they are tortoise friendly, as tortoises are very interesting and intriguing to dogs. Their smells, etc. are very luring and tempting to investigate! Dogs have a natural chewing instinct, especially younger dogs; HOWEVER, we currently have a 10 yr old dog who tried to chew my Russian Tortoise until I trained her not to, so it is NOT always just younger dogs who pose as a potential problem.

Please carefully consider what everybody here has said. You do need to be careful adding another dog to your family, since you do have tortoises. Any dog, any size, any breed, can hurt a tortoise. Please don't put your tortoises at risk by thinking otherwise.

 

[Floof]

Oh, please. Talk about BS!!! Sorry, but have you EVER been bitten by a small/medium dog? Or seen the damage they can do to... Well... ANYTHING? If any little bit of your tortoise can fit in the dog's mouth, there IS a SERIOUS risk. I wouldn't trust my mom's little 20 lb corgi mutt around even something as big as a sulcata, because I KNOW her mouth, which she and just about any dog can open to nearly 180* with some effort, is big enough to fit enough around even a large tortoise's leg to cause some damage. And you know what? Those little dogs bite HARD. And those bigger dogs bite even HARDER. Sure, reptiles have a coat of tough scales... But dogs have teeth designed to tear through flesh, hard scales or no.

Rant over.

I can understand your need to have a dog.. I couldn't live without one, either. But you have to factor in your tortoises' safety. If that means keeping them in a separate pen, however "inconvenient" it may be, so be it. That's what it means to have a dog around tortoises--get over it. You've been lucky so far to have a dog who's perfectly fine around tortoises, and now you expect that pinpointing a new dog that'll be just as reliable will be easy as pie.

The fact of the matter is, not all dogs are YOUR dog. The odds of finding a dog who's as reliable as yours is around tortoises, specifically, are ridiculously slim. Your best bet, as has been said, is to go through a rescue that can help you find a dog that will fit in your situation. Steer clear of the puppies--generally speaking, they're going to be way too rambunctious, energetic, and liable to chew on anything they can get their mouths around (i.e. your tortoise's limbs) to be trusted for a long while.

Good luck, anyway...

 

[Yvonne G]

John:

You've crossed the line. There was no cause for you to say that about Maggie when she's only trying to help you and give you the benefit of her experience.

I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again.

Several years ago a woman brought me a beautiful female, full grown desert tortoise. She and her husband had gone out of town for a week or two and their grown son had been called over to house sit. They had a full grown lab who had been raised with the tortoise. They got the lab as a puppy and the tortoise was in residence at that time and already grown. The lab never bothered the tortoise in the 15 years that they shared the yard together.

When the people came home from vacation they found their beloved tortoise, Mildred, with only three legs. The dog had eaten off completely one of her front legs.

Now I understand that you are saying your dog won't be left unattended for any length of time with the tortoise, but your statement about not having seen dog-chewed turtles or tortoises and your thinking that because you haven't seen it it doesn't happen, is just not right.

Get a dog. I have two. But just always be aware that the potential is always there for the dog to chew the tortoise. Just be aware...that's all we're saying. Because it does happen...more often than we'd like for it to happen. It really does.

(And I think you owe Maggie an apology. She's only trying to help)

 

[stells]

If you think that no medium size dog could harm an adult tortoise you are very much mistaken... there are medium sized dogs with strong jaws out there... for example my SBT's... i wouldn't like to see a tortoise they got hold of...

The comment towards Maggie deserves much more than just an apology...

 

[Shelly]

You've crossed the line.

Do you not feel she crossed the line by saying I do not understand or will not listen?
Never mind. I am done with this forum. Good bye.

 

[mightyclyde]

Wow.

Our daushund gnawed deep bloody grooves into my pet boxie's shell when I was a kid. Good thing my boxie pulled in tight - the dog would have killed her. I will NEVER NEVER leave a tort alone again with ANY dog. I won't even OWN a dog because I have two tortoises. PERIOD ~ It was WAY too tragic to find my beloved pet traumatized by a dog mauling. She ended up being ok, and the grooves healed, but her scars on her beautiful shell were a constant reminder.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

This is Mildred, she came to live with me after her keeper chose the dog over her. Mildred had lived with those people for 20 years not the 15 that Yvonne remembers and and the keeper had come home from work, this damage happened while the people were at work, not on vacation. I wouldn't normally contradict Yvonne in public, but Mildred had lived with those people for 20 years, she had bonded with them and she was seriously depressed when she came to live with me. One fact Yvonne left out was they never found Mildred's leg. That dog had not only chewed it off but he licked the wound until it stopped bleeding, and he either buried the leg or ate it, but the leg was never found.
Mildred was living with me when I moved to Oregon and Yvonne wouldn't let me bring her. That's how recent this story is, it's not an old story.
So here is Mildred, she was a sweet wonderful tortoise who was bigger then Bob when she lived with me. Can you just imagine? She was bigger then Bob. Anyhow, here she is...I glued a furniture slide onto her plastron to help her get around...

Her wound was not totally healed when these pictures were taken...

 

[chadk]

I have 2 big dogs and 7 tortoises and 3 boxies. The dogs get to play in the tort yard for 5-10 minutes here and there, but only when someone is there with them. I would never leave a tort or turtle alone with any dog for more than a few minutes. I would never trust a dog and a small child to be left alone either.

So I agree with those that say there are no 'tortoise friendly' breeds. Or even individuals. If you are planning to keep then in the same yard, it is just asking for trouble. In my case, my sweet 100lb dog is more likely to be injured from being rammed from my sometimes grumpy 40lb suldata But not worth finding out...

My dogs are indoor dogs. My my small torts and hatchlings are in a locked room (locked from kids, dogs, cats). My big torts have a nice safe fenced in area that we let the dogs play in, but only supervised. So YES, you can have dogs and torts. Just be smart about it.

 

[ChiKat]

I have a chihuahua that runs around outside when I'm out with Nelson. She's very interested in him but she mostly likes to sit and watch him. She's very sweet and docile and I am fairly confident she would never try to pick him up. I would still NEVER EVER leave her alone with him though. That's just asking for trouble.

I also have a chihuahua/terrier mix that never gets to be outside when Nelson is. He's too unpredictable.

So YES, you can have dogs and torts. Just be smart about it.

Exactly.

 

[fifthdawn]

You can definately keep dogs and tortoises, but there is always the possibility of unexpected attack. If its expected, it wouldn't happen then. To be safe, just keep them seperate or undersupervision when together. There seems to be the argument going on in this thread as if its arguing for housing together with no supervision at all and I don't see why anyone would try to argue that.

There is also a bias or a logical fallacy on the people who works at shelters. You'll see all the cases where tortoises are attacked by dogs, but you don't see all the case where the tortoise isn't attacked by a dog and that number is probably alot higher than most people here think, afterall, if they weren't attacked, they wouldn't have to be brought in.

 

[Maggie Cummings]

Actually all I was trying to say is that his NEW dog might not be as trustworthy as his old dog. I don't care if people have dogs and tortoises, I was simply warning him to be careful. Trying to tell him that some dogs will chew on tortoises. That's all.

 

[terryo]

I have two Chihuahua's and a tiny Yorkie. They are very small, and probably couldn't do too much damage to Pio, but I would never let them get hear him, not because they might hurt him, but why should he have to get all stressed out ...go into his shell...and be afraid of anything. I would never want him to be under any kind of stress for any reason, if I could help it. I never put him on the floor in my home, or outside. He is only in his own enclosure.