Concerns About Crush's Shell

[zovick]

Okay. Thank you for the WEALTH of information. Sincerely. As previously stated, the vet said a few things:

1) that his labs were abnormal
Exam - Biochemistry Chelonian (Terrestrial) - 336923 ( diagnostics )
AST 55 U/l ; Ca 7.4 mg/dl ; GLU 43 mg/dl ; TP 2.7 g/dl ; UA 4.3 mg/dl ; IP 3.3 mg/dl ; PCV 16% ; TS 2.9

2) to put Kopertox on his shell. I did some research and it's a horse medication for thrush. From being a registered Nurse, i know thrush is (for humans) a fungal infection, so I'm assuming would serve the same function as antifungal cream. But appears to have the added benefits of being water resistant.

What are your thoughts, if any, on the above two points??

Also, he basically lives under his basking lamp when he wakes up in the morning, no matter what temperature I change the ambient temperature in the enclosure to be. But the carapace damage was there when I got him. So is the lamp making it worse?

Sorry, but I'm a dentist and have no knowledge of the normal biochemistry levels for a tortoise.
I don't know anything about Kopertox, either, other than it contains copper napthanate. Naphtha is rather toxic from what I know. Whether it is as safe as the clotrimazole in athlete's foot cream is another thing I don't know.

It probably won't hurt to try it. It might smell like mothballs with the naphtha content, I just don't know.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Sorry, but I'm a dentist and have no knowledge of the normal biochemistry levels for a tortoise.
I don't know anything about Kopertox, either, other than it contains copper napthanate. Naphtha is rather toxic from what I know. Whether it is as safe as the clotrimazole in athlete's foot cream is another thing I don't know.

It probably won't hurt to try it. It might smell like mothballs with the naphtha content, I just don't know.

I'll try one 'dose' of it. If he seems to act strange or anything afterwards, I'll switch to the creme. I'm only supposed to do it once a week anyways. Thanks for getting back to me.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

I don’t have experience with that medication but it sounds like it could be worth trying

I’m definitely stumped on why he’s wanting to excessively bask if ambient temps are good, but constant basking definitely won’t be helping the healing process noI’m sorry I wish I had better advice for you here, I’m hoping Tom can have a better look at those labs for you

His regimen:
• wake up sometime from 10am to 3pm (changes day to day, and is unrelated to the different heat/lights turning on [monitored with enclosure cameras])
• immediately move to basking spot
• move to his sleeping spot when timers shut off basking spot. Sometimes immediately, sometimes within 30 minutes because he fell asleep
• rinse and repeat the next day

He used to break up that cycle with eating, but he doesn't eat anymore....

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

His regimen:
• wake up sometime from 10am to 3pm (changes day to day, and is unrelated to the different heat/lights turning on [monitored with enclosure cameras])
• immediately move to basking spot
• move to his sleeping spot when timers shut off basking spot. Sometimes immediately, sometimes within 30 minutes because he fell asleep
• rinse and repeat the next day

He used to break up that cycle with eating, but he doesn't eat anymore....

Bless him, I do wonder if there’s something underlying happening here, suppose it’s the trouble with wild caught and not knowing their entire past

Keep doing what you’re doing, keep offering feeds and yeah try a treatment, they’re hardy animals, I’m hoping he can get over this eating blip and his shell start to heal properly

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Bless him, I do wonder if there’s something underlying happening here, suppose it’s the trouble with wild caught and not knowing their entire past

Keep doing what you’re doing, keep offering feeds and yeah try a treatment, they’re hardy animals, I’m hoping he can get over this eating blip and his shell start to heal properly

I hope there's nothing happening, but also sorta hope there is (BUT is something identifiable) because that means known plan of treatment. You know?

 

[COmtnLady]

The athlete's foot cream seems somewhat less toxic than the Naphtha, so why not try it first?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

I hope there's nothing happening, but also sorta hope there is (BUT is something identifiable) because that means known plan of treatment. You know?

I know

The athlete's foot cream seems somewhat less toxic than the Naphtha, so why not try it first?

I think yes maybe try this first?^^

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I've looked for biochemistry indicators and reference values. Some values are outside reference ranges, yet reference values vary a lot between tortoise species, seasons of the year etc.

Shell is probably going through long recovery process and you can see old damaged keratin and bone chipping off. You can ask your vet about alternative anti-fungal medications (I guess there is a reason for prescribing specific remedy).

If he basks a lot, you may rise ambient temperature in the enclosure to 82-84F if possible and see if there are any changes in behaviour.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I've looked for biochemistry indicators and reference values. Some values are outside reference ranges, yet reference values vary a lot between tortoise species, seasons of the year etc.

I think in human reference values, there is a certain percentage of humans that have values outside of the reference but are still healthy. I always think of this when looking at my blood tests.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Thank you everyone for suggestions and input. It's appreciated. I bought some athlete's foot cream because it seems to be the safer choice.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Update:
When I was soaking him last night. My fiancé and I decided to rush to an emergency vet because he was virtually unresponsive. They thought possible start of renal failure. He now weighs 209g, down from 274 one month ago. They gave him vit a and calcium injections, fluid bolts, and gave us food to feed him through a syringe.
His very came to see him today and told us there's a chance he may not last a week, but obviously there's also a chance he could improve.
I'm distraught and I don't know what to do........
@Littleredfootbigredheart @Alex and the Redfoot @The_Four_Toed_Edward @Yvonne G @Tom @zovick

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Oh no.. I'm so sorry to hear that happening... You can follow vet's prescriptions and hope that Crush will make it. You do a great job of caring for him and he knows that.

I keep my fingers crossed. Please, keep us updated!

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Oh no.. I'm so sorry to hear that happening... You can follow vet's prescriptions and hope that Crush will make it. You do a great job of caring for him and he knows that.

I keep my fingers crossed. Please, keep us updated!

Note he's eating bark and biting himself. What do I do?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Do you see any changes of his skin/scales (dryness, peeling)? He was given a vitamin A injection and hypervitaminosis can affect skin/scales.

If he tries to eat bark, this can be a sign of mineral disbalance (any kind - too much/too low calcium, lack/excess of other nutrients). Does he eat greens on his own? What critical care food was recommended?

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Do you see any changes of his skin/scales (dryness, peeling)? He was given a vitamin A injection and hypervitaminosis can affect skin/scales.

If he tries to eat bark, this can be a sign of mineral disbalance (any kind - too much/too low calcium, lack/excess of other nutrients). Does he eat greens on his own? What critical care food was recommended?

I put him in a wood bowl so I could try and sleep, but I'm worried he will hurt himself over the night without me watching. I was able to trick him into eating some greens and zucchini while he was nipping at air and trying (relentlessly) to bite himself. Also gave him two servings of his force feeds.
Here is the food for 'puree' force feeds.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

I put him in a wood bowl so I could try and sleep, but I'm worried he will hurt himself over the night without me watching. I was able to trick him into eating some greens and zucchini while he was nipping at air and trying (relentlessly) to bite himself. Also gave him two servings of his force feeds.
Here is the food for 'puree' force feeds.
View attachment 386517

IC puree composition looks good. Keep hydrated and warm (82-84F) day and night. Sincerely hope, he will be okay..

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

IC puree composition looks good. Keep hydrated and warm (82-84F) day and night. Sincerely hope, he will be okay..

What do i do about him biting himself? Just let it go??

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

What do i do about him biting himself? Just let it go??

My best guess is the reaction to vitamin A injection. If so, it should resolve on its own. You may give your vet a call, I hope he can give some recommendations without charging you.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

My best guess is the reaction to vitamin A injection. If so, it should resolve on its own. You may give your vet a call, I hope he can give some recommendations without charging you.

Ok thank you. Time for me to hit the hay. Have to drive to work in 4 hrs..... thank you. Really.

 

[Squirt the Dalmation]

Newest update: he's still crawling around biting at air, but for now stopped biting himself. I'm waiting for thoughts/ideas/suggestions from the vet.
I just don't know what to do. I don't know if I can fully and/or 'blindly' believe everything the vet says because I've read on here that truly knowledgeable tortoise vets are hard to come by. But if I do believe them, then he's not going to pull through. I don't feel like he's that close to going (far gone), but at the same time, he is NOT acting normal and/or like he was before. At all......

Welcome any thoughts, suggestions, or input from everyone on here. Whether it's one sentence or an essay. Regardless of everything, and how things turn out, I'm am grateful for what you all have done for Crush and I so far.....