Don't buy torts from pet stores!

[Crazy1]

Jacqui you made some very valid points in your post.

 

[AST-Loch]

I say don't buy tortoises from petstores (or turtles) because they simply don't care, they just see animals as money.

At my local PetCo, they sell Red-Eared Sliders. I've seen the conditions they keep them in. They keep around fifteen turtles, each badly pyramided in their own special way, 4-6 inch shells, all in the same tank. The tank looks like a 50 gallon tank. The turtles have nowhere to hide, either.

The store keeps Russians, up to two, in the same terrarium, which (if it were a fishtank) would probably be 15-20 gallons. It has a glass front, and a hide just big enough for one of them to be in. They feed them crickets.

I've actually been told that I can sell wild-caught turtles to them.

Poor turtles and tortoises...

 

[Itort]

This is my point. No knowledge of the animal or desire to learn. The chain petstores are blishly ignorant of the animals they sell in general. If you have a Petsmart near you ,this is not torts, see if you can buy a bird there now. The reason why is they were caught selling them infected with psytoccosis (sp) or parrot fever. If this is the concern they have for public how much due they care for the animals. I for one won't even buy dogfood there now, for my own health.

 

[RichardA]

I cannot agree with not buying from shops.....I used to work for a large family owned pet store that buys from breeders. So the torts they carry are CB juvies. And most all others around here also buy from wholesalers that buy from breeders. So the whole taking them out of the wild thing is not across the board true.

Now, what I do say is this.

ASK! Simply ask them. And also dont purhase animals that the store is neglecting. If you buy it they will order more. I am also guilty of doing this....lol....."saving" them. Large chain stores have no business carrying these animals if they are not gonna take the time to do it right.

My 2 pennies.

Remember everybody.. those 4" RF you see most likely came from the "Farm" in Venezuela.

And RichardA there are always exceptions and extremes.. so I commend 'your' pet store!

Don't get mad at me.. be honest with yourself.. if you're asking for advice instead of giving it - you're a 'newbie'! We all have to start somewhere.

I'm about to make my statement... ( most of it has been said already ).

Terry

Just to be clear.....I meant ask where they buy from. If they buy from a breeder they will know and tell you, if they say from our supply house they are just ordering without any regard to well being of the animal. Like I said before, all but a handful of shops statewide here buy from the same wholesaler, who in turn buys from our local breeders as well as a few out of state breeders....

The area I live in we have 3 of the top Ball Python producers as well as 3-5 of the larger Tort and Turt breeders.

That is all I meant by my post, buying from a store is not always out of the question.

PS: I am talking about family owned pet shops....NOT chain stores.....they have little to zero knowledge of anything they sell, animals or dry goods.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

This thread was never open to: interpretation.. emotions.. egos.. or justification's of our individual opinions.

The Q? was asked to find out where everyone's head and/or heart was when it came to keeping our beloved tortoises! And more importantly what impact that has on the tortoises!!!

Lest we have forgotten.. it started with this:

I've asked a couple of y'all "Why should you NOT buy any torts from pet stores"?

Coming from me it has nothing to do with being a breeder! It has everything to do with the health of the tortoise.

Will EVERYBODY please reply to this.. please? Elaborate at length about how you feel about this please! I'll elaborate later.

Thanks...

And it seemingly has turned into a debate - attacking: me for asking the Q?.. the breeders.. the pet stores.. the tortoise farms'.. legislation.. one another.. [ have I missed anything or body? ] Quite frankly I'm surprised someone didn't call the tortoises stupid for allowing themselves to be caught!

This is a thread that any Admin would be proud to represent as "How our members get along"..

.

Wonder how "new" potential members feel when they read the above 5 page thread?

My favorite replies came from Danny.. (if he replied I didn't see it - smart on his part).. Robyn who appreciated the thought stimulation.. and Josh who felt he had to explain what the original idea of the Q? was.

I was under the impression that this forum was different because we are interested in what's best for the tortoises.

Terry

 

[-EJ]

I cannot agree with not buying from shops.....I used to work for a large family owned pet store that buys from breeders. So the torts they carry are CB juvies. And most all others around here also buy from wholesalers that buy from breeders. So the whole taking them out of the wild thing is not across the board true.

Now, what I do say is this.

ASK! Simply ask them. And also dont purhase animals that the store is neglecting. If you buy it they will order more. I am also guilty of doing this....lol....."saving" them. Large chain stores have no business carrying these animals if they are not gonna take the time to do it right.

My 2 pennies.

Remember everybody.. those 4" RF you see most likely came from the "Farm" in Venezuela.

And RichardA there are always exceptions and extremes.. so I commend 'your' pet store!

Don't get mad at me.. be honest with yourself.. if you're asking for advice instead of giving it - you're a 'newbie'! We all have to start somewhere.

I'm about to make my statement... ( most of it has been said already ).

Terry

Just to be clear.....I meant ask where they buy from. If they buy from a breeder they will know and tell you, if they say from our supply house they are just ordering without any regard to well being of the animal. Like I said before, all but a handful of shops statewide here buy from the same wholesaler, who in turn buys from our local breeders as well as a few out of state breeders....

The area I live in we have 3 of the top Ball Python producers as well as 3-5 of the larger Tort and Turt breeders.

That is all I meant by my post, buying from a store is not always out of the question.

PS: I am talking about family owned pet shops....NOT chain stores.....they have little to zero knowledge of anything they sell, animals or dry goods.

Where you even thinking when you typed out those first 2 lines????????

You have to have seen the photos of those 'farms'... they do exist and they are producing redfoot in the numbers that they can retail for $100...

I can go on but I just realized... what is you motive for posting the original post... not bad enough... but then perpetuating it with this post??????

 

[RichardA]

My answer would be:

You shouldn't "not" buy from a store......You "should" however only buy from stores that have knowledge of the animals and care about them in the manner that is needed. I personally have gotten some really nice torts from stores, the owners and the employees care and have the knowledge to keep them healthy and happy.

Guess the real answer would be this:

You should not buy from a store if the animals in their care (other animals too, not only torts and turts) are not being taken care of in a manner that is healthy for the animal. If they have 25 baby sulcatas all crammed into a 10 gallon tank with no substrate then you know they have no care nor desire to care for these animals and you should walk away at that point.

 

[RichardA]

EJ

what are you talking about.....I never said the farms didnt exist......I simply stated that here they do not buy from them, nor did I when I had my business going. I have personally been to the facilities where the ones here come from....my wifes tort came from one of them.

 

[JustAnja]

All I can say is I am glad this forum is not run like a Nazi war camp and we do have the freedom of free thought and speech here. This forum IS different.

 

[Redfootedboxturtles]

This usually happens on most forums. Seems some people took this very personal. Any ways. Private owned pet shops are going out of business left and right here in my area of south Florida. Chains like Petco and Petsmart are popping up all over. I cant honestly say I would never buy a tortoise from pet shop private or chain. I can say it isnt good for the animals as a whole. In the bigger picture people who are looking to make a pet investment(any animal) should do one of two things. Buy from a real breeder. Someone who has the parents on display. Kind of like buying a pure bred puppy, or thorow bred horse. The second would be to adopt. Thousands of animals of all shapes and sizes are in need of good quality loving homes. Tortoises happen to be one of them.

Long story short. IMO buying a baby tortoise from a pet shop is like buying a puppy from a pet shop. Do some research on where most pet shops get their puppy's from.

 

[RichardA]

Great post Redfooted.......pretty much what I was trying to say but let my opinions get into the way.

 

[egyptiandan]

Thanks Terry I usually leave threads like this alone
We (tortoise keepers) tend to lose sight of things when asked questions like this.
The only thing that matters here is the tortoise or tortoises. It matters not where the tortoise is. They didn't choose to be in any of those places anyway. So it doesn't matter where you buy a tortoise from.
It only matters that you've done your research and can supply that particular tortoises needs and care (including vet care).
You have to know that this tortoise will never go back to the wild and his/her best chance of a long life is a well informed keeper.
So don't worry about where a tortoise came from, just worry about giving that tortoise the best care you possiblely can.

Danny

 

[cvalda]

Well said, Danny!

Here's how I look at it, but I think this is all based on individual opinions and case-by-case basis, and because I feel this way doesn't mean everyone else will or even should...

Of the last three torts that I got from petstores, all three were at substantial discounts, this being because I talked to the manager, pointed out the issues in the care of these animals, pointed out their needs and how they are not being served, and was given quite a discount on them so they could "move the product".

Now, yes, they probably still made a little profit, but not much at all. Yes, they will turn around and replace the tortoise with a new one. BUT they will do so, I HOPE, with more thought for the animal, and each time I go in and talk to the managers about them, they learn a little more and more and more... and some will choose to disregard it, but some will think twice... The fact of the matter is, if those three tortoises died in the store because they did not sell and were not taken care of, they would STILL be replaced with a new tortoise, BUT they would be replaced with a much lesser understanding of the topic.

 

[-EJ]

EJ

what are you talking about.....I never said the farms didnt exist......I simply stated that here they do not buy from them, nor did I when I had my business going. I have personally been to the facilities where the ones here come from....my wifes tort came from one of them.

My screw up... I hit the reply at the top instead of the bottom... that was meant for terry's post. On member picked it up.

Lesson learned... for me... watch which end of the post you are clicking... for you... watch for the context.

Sorry.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I wonder how much longer this is going on?

Don't buy torts from pet stores! Was strictly an attention-getter.. not a statement.

In the body ( 4th sentence ) of this thread is where I asked how you felt about buying from pet stores. Why would anyone think I was suggesting to only buy from a breeder.. [ because I am one ]? Ask any of us [ breeder's ] what % of our hatchlings end up with those met on a forum. I would like to see more.. because forum members seem to be more concerned and willing to learn than others do. We couldn't feed our colony for a month.. from the proceeds of selling to forum members.. in a YEARS time! Why do y'all think I'm even here.. posting pics and sharing years of experince? And asking Q?'s to get you to think and participate.. which leads to more Q?'s and more answers!

Why do you think.........?

Terry

 

[-EJ]

I wonder how much longer this is going on?

Don't buy torts from pet stores! Was strictly an attention-getter.. not a statement.

In the body ( 4th sentence ) of this thread is where I asked how you felt about buying from pet stores. Why would anyone think I was suggesting to only buy from a breeder.. [ because I am one ]? Ask any of us [ breeder's ] what % of our hatchlings end up with those met on a forum. I would like to see more.. because forum members seem to be more concerned and willing to learn than others do. We couldn't feed our colony for a month.. from the proceeds of selling to forum members.. in a YEARS time! Why do y'all think I'm even here.. posting pics and sharing years of experince? And asking Q?'s to get you to think and participate.. which leads to more Q?'s and more answers!

Why do you think.........?

Terry

You seem to have gotten quite a few peoples attention. This is one of those seriously debatable questions.

what got my attention was the you seemed to contradict yourself on some points bit maybe it was how I read it.

This is a hobby that is based on the pet trade whether we like to admit it or not.

The pet shop whether it is a mom/pop or chain serves a function that does help this hobby.

I don't think any one of us... keeper... breeder... hobbyest... could stand alone without the aid of these shops... but that's just me.

(crap... I ran out of things to say)

 

[Redfoot NERD]

I wonder how much longer this is going on?

Don't buy torts from pet stores! Was strictly an attention-getter.. not a statement.

In the body ( 4th sentence ) of this thread is where I asked how you felt about buying from pet stores. Why would anyone think I was suggesting to only buy from a breeder.. [ because I am one ]? Ask any of us [ breeder's ] what % of our hatchlings end up with those met on a forum. I would like to see more.. because forum members seem to be more concerned and willing to learn than others do. We couldn't feed our colony for a month.. from the proceeds of selling to forum members.. in a YEARS time! Why do y'all think I'm even here.. posting pics and sharing years of experince? And asking Q?'s to get you to think and participate.. which leads to more Q?'s and more answers!

Why do you think.........?

Terry

You seem to have gotten quite a few peoples attention. This is one of those seriously debatable questions.

what got my attention was the you seemed to contradict yourself on some points bit maybe it was how I read it.

This is a hobby that is based on the pet trade whether we like to admit it or not.

The pet shop whether it is a mom/pop or chain serves a function that does help this hobby.

I don't think any one of us... keeper... breeder... hobbyest... could stand alone without the aid of these shops... but that's just me.

(crap... I ran out of things to say)

It's on record folks.. (crap... I ran out of things to say)

Thanks ALL.. you especially Ed...

Terry

 

[cvalda]

Terry, I understand that you are frustrated because many of the replies to this question are not what you wanted to hear. I can't speak for everyone here, but please know that the great majority of us do respect you and value your opinions, insight and understanding on tortoises and tortoise care (I know I definately do)!

When a question is posed that makes people think, and think HARD, (as yours did) you are going to run the whole gamut of answers and thoughts on it. That does not mean that people respect you less, or that they respect tortoises less or that they're not going to do the best possible that they can do for their pets, or even that they're not willing to learn (in most cases, anyway)!

Your questions don't shade our opinions of you, and I hope our answers don't shade your opinion of us! We're all here for the same reason - tortoises and to gain more knowledge and understanding of them and their care (in all aspects). Some of us have more learning to do than others! Some of you can offer more teaching on the subject! So keep up the good work, don't get frustrated, don't take differing opinions to heart, and keep on loving those tortoises the way you do!!!!

 

[Jacqui]

All I can say is I am glad this forum is not run like a Nazi war camp and we do have the freedom of free thought and speech here. This forum IS different.

I totally agree. I for one, find these kinds of opinion debates to be great stimulation of the mind. As to a question as to what a newcomer would think if they read this thread, I would hope he/she would see what I see. That this is an open group with a great love of our tortoises. A place where we share thoughts freely...even ones going against the grain. Where we can question each other's thoughts too, not just blindly follow.

Yes we showed emotions, geesh I would feel badly if we didn't. Emotions show your deep commitment and caring.

To me it comes down to check out where your getting the animal from and check out the animal. There are no blanket right or wrong places to get an animal. When the day is done, what really counts? The animal. That it is being given the best chance for survival it can be given.

 

[Redfoot NERD]

Terry, I understand that you are frustrated because many of the replies to this question are not what you wanted to hear. I can't speak for everyone here, but please know that the great majority of us do respect you and value your opinions, insight and understanding on tortoises and tortoise care (I know I definately do)!

When a question is posed that makes people think, and think HARD, (as yours did) you are going to run the whole gamut of answers and thoughts on it. That does not mean that people respect you less, or that they respect tortoises less or that they're not going to do the best possible that they can do for their pets, or even that they're not willing to learn (in most cases, anyway)!

Your questions don't shade our opinions of you, and I hope our answers don't shade your opinion of us! We're all here for the same reason - tortoises and to gain more knowledge and understanding of them and their care (in all aspects). Some of us have more learning to do than others! Some of you can offer more teaching on the subject! So keep up the good work, don't get frustrated, don't take differing opinions to heart, and keep on loving those tortoises the way you do!!!!

Kelly [ and anyone else that wants to hear this ].. what makes y'all think I'm frustrated? Concerned yes.. with some that "keep" tortoises. And it wouldn't be wise to elaborate on that.. any!

However at the risk of being totally misunderstood.. being a long term keeper and breeder of Chelonians for well over 30 years - YES I ACTUALLY BOUGHT A TURTLE FROM A PET STORE IN 1976 - it's almost come to the old saying.. "This would be a great business if it weren't for [ "most" of ] these humans"! I'm starting to sound like and OLD farmer.. aren't I??? But there are always going to be those that have.. whatever that is.. this thing that makes them feel like they are misunderstood or need to be the center of attention or have to have 1 or 12 of everything or have the last word or are jealous or greedy - the list goes on and on.

So be assured the actual Q? of Why not buy from pet stores? wasn't for me to learn from.. I've experienced virtually every aspect of this hobby/business. I don't really care what anybody thinks. Remember I'm only here for those that want help.. and having said that there will be those that choose to misunderstand or be offended or accuse me of being arrogant, etc., etc. by that statement. So to calm those raging rebellious spirits I better say.. "Of course I'm anxious to learn wherever possible"!

So THANK YOU Kelly.. for your concern.

Terry