Front legs not working ?

[Torterella S]

Team desperate to find a cause:
Ajin - we have a 5 yr old sculata tortoise
The night have mid /low 40’s cold in California .
She is inside in insulated garage with heat lamp At night . Heat lamp is here refuge when she is cold .
Typical day eat some food , came out to visit gave her an apple and some cucumber . She likes a lot .
Today she was fine Afternoon warm bath time which she like to use for restroom . Soaked for about 30 mins. Did her business.
Then we took her out .
All of sudden out of nowhere she cannot use her front legs.?
Back leg only works.
Put her in her house under lamp, legs are not coming back.
I’m totally concerned and open for suggestions , comments .
She showed no implication there was something wrong before today.
I don’t believe she ate something strange.

 

[wellington]

A garage with just a bulb is not going to stay warm enough. You need to make her a night box that is heated by an oil filled radiator heater running on a thermostat. She needs to be able to have that box 80-85 day and night but not from a bulb. Should be dark at night.
She also needs to basking under an incandescent flood bulb during the day if the day temps are not warm enough to properly digest her food and keep her insides working properly.
How big of an enclosure does she have for day time?
No fruit should be fed. They can't handle the sugars and it messes up their stomach.
What are your day temps and her diet?

 

[Torterella S]

A garage with just a bulb is not going to stay warm enough. You need to make her a night box that is heated by an oil filled radiator heater running on a thermostat. She needs to be able to have that box 80-85 day and night but not from a bulb. Should be dark at night.
She also needs to basking under an incandescent flood bulb during the day if the day temps are not warm enough to properly digest her food and keep her insides working properly.
How big of an enclosure does she have for day time?
No fruit should be fed. They can't handle the sugars and it messes up their stomach.
What are your day temps and her diet?

Thank you Wellington -
I bought a Kane mat .
However it sounds like this Kane Mat will catch everything on fire. The wood box house we made . I will try the mat.
Also space heater to maintain ambient temp in the space .
Incandescent flood bulb to digest .? That could be a lot to do with it .
Enclosure by day is the backyard 50’x80’ .

Fruit is something she wants and we fell stupid to that . No more .

Her does it Achoy lettuce ,cactus , skuttle bone , we also feed her grassland pellets and Timothy hay cubes .
She has eaten less and less of grassland .
I think this is because she is spoiled with lettuce and treats .

I see some important items to change . Thank you .

 

[wellington]

The kane heat mat is used by many. However, it has to have a heat source above it in order for the tortoise to not burn its plastron as they need to heat from above. Without heat above, they will stay on the heat mat too long. You can install the kane on the side of the sleep box or be sure to have it on a thermostat with a probe so it can't go over 85-90.
@Tom can help you better with the night box heating and how he does it. He is also in CA not sure if same area though.

 

[Torterella S]

The kane heat mat is used by many. However, it has to have a heat source above it in order for the tortoise to not burn its plastron as they need to heat from above. Without heat above, they will stay on the heat mat too long. You can install the kane on the side of the sleep box or be sure to have it on a thermostat with a probe so it can't go over 85-90.
@Tom can help you better with the night box heating and how he does it. He is also in CA not sure if same area though.

Thanks. any ideas why the legs stop working ? Do you think they will come back? We brought her Inside the house again. We will reach out to Tom.

 

[wellington]

I don't have a clue.
Did you watch her the whole time she was soaking? Could she have hurt her legs trying to get out of soak tub?
For now get temps improved etc and hopefully they will come back.
If not you can try hydrotherapy on her. Put her in a tub large enough for her to be able to swim in. Fill the tub with warm water so she can't touch and let her swim. Support her from the bottom if needed. Never leave her alone while doing this. Keep her move and do this at least once a day for about a half hour to an hour. Give her short breaks. It has worked for a rescue of mine for back legs and also others. Don't recall anyone with front leg problems.
See how she is tomorrow.

 

[ZEROPILOT]

How long have you had your tortoise and has he/she had access to a UVB source?

 

[Torterella S]

Yes she has a UVB . She goes outside everyday so we did not use it religiously.
Hearing Wellington talk about not enough UV could impact digestion. We will use it more in the cold weather months . We have had her for 4 yrs . She has been a healthy girl up until this event …

 

[ZEROPILOT]

Yes she has a UVB . She goes outside everyday so we did not use it religiously.
Hearing Wellington talk about not enough UV could impact digestion. We will use it more in the cold weather months . We have had her for 4 yrs . She has been a healthy girl up until this event …

Warm temperatures make digestion possible.
UVB helps make D3 for strong bones and shell.
I wasn't aware of your history. Or that you've had her for 4 years

 

[wellington]

Yes she has a UVB . She goes outside everyday so we did not use it religiously.
Hearing Wellington talk about not enough UV could impact digestion. We will use it more in the cold weather months . We have had her for 4 yrs . She has been a healthy girl up until this event …

No not uv. Its not being warm enough that effects digestion. The basking under an incandescent flood that reaches 95-100 at tortoise level is what they need for digestion and correct temps day and night.
UV can be from the sun. If they get it at least 3-4 days a week that's enough. Even from a bulb the UV only needs to be on for 4 hours.

 

[Tom]

Team desperate to find a cause:
Ajin - we have a 5 yr old sculata tortoise
The night have mid /low 40’s cold in California .
She is inside in insulated garage with heat lamp At night . Heat lamp is here refuge when she is cold .
Typical day eat some food , came out to visit gave her an apple and some cucumber . She likes a lot .
Today she was fine Afternoon warm bath time which she like to use for restroom . Soaked for about 30 mins. Did her business.
Then we took her out .
All of sudden out of nowhere she cannot use her front legs.?
Back leg only works.
Put her in her house under lamp, legs are not coming back.
I’m totally concerned and open for suggestions , comments .
She showed no implication there was something wrong before today.
I don’t believe she ate something strange.

What is the temperature inside the garage at night? It needs to be no lower than 80 down on the floor where the tortoise is. Its good that the garage is insulated, but how is it heated and to what temperature?

Heat lamps are dangerous and not effective for larger tortoises. While you are overheating the surface of the carapace, the core can't get warm enough and heat is being sucked out from the floor below.

You need an insulated temperature controlled night box with either a Kane mat on the floor and a radiant heat panel over it, or a mini radiant oil heater. You can't heat the whole world, but you can create a heated area for the tortoise to retreat to. Here are two examples:

Single Tortoise Night Box

I like my larger tortoises to live outside full time. My climate permits this year round with a little help. For people who live where it snows all winter, this type of box is still good for warmer weather, getting them out earlier in Spring, and keeping them out a bit later into fall. You'll...

tortoiseforum.org

Double Door Night Box

As the years have gone by and I build more of these boxes, I learn more and more each time. This one is the latest and I incorporated everything I've learned over the years. I also tried to take lots of pics so I can explain in more detail some of what is going on. It will take multiple posts to...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Torterella S]

Tom - thank you very much .
Great news a night in house and on the Kane Mat . She is walking normally and up to trouble again.
I have materials ready to build her a proper house after winter .
Now we will keep her close and use
Kane Mat
Uv lights
Heat lamp
Insulation at under floor
From there we will see what temps we can maintain.
Until we get dialed in we will just keep her in house .Outisde by day of course .

Quite scary seeing her immobile .
Thinking it was a cold shock or too many days below norm temp caught up w her ….
Everyone
Thank you again !!!

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello! I'm glad she's on all her four again!

If it's UVB lamp on the photo - it should be lower, somewhat 12-14 inches over the shell to be effective.

And, please, make her night place in the house isolated and safe: I see wires and sockets around (and more unsuitable stuff), she might tear them off by accident or by intention.

Keep her safe and warm and all the best!

 

[Tom]

Tom - thank you very much .
Great news a night in house and on the Kane Mat . She is walking normally and up to trouble again.
I have materials ready to build her a proper house after winter .
Now we will keep her close and use
Kane Mat
Uv lights
Heat lamp
Insulation at under floor
From there we will see what temps we can maintain.
Until we get dialed in we will just keep her in house .Outisde by day of course .

Quite scary seeing her immobile .
Thinking it was a cold shock or too many days below norm temp caught up w her ….
Everyone
Thank you again !!!

You are welcome. If the tortoise is getting outside regularly, you do not need indoor UV.

Be very careful with heat lamps or CHEs over a large tortoise like yours. In an effort to warm the tortoise, many people end up "slow-burning" the top of the carapace. This damages the scutes permanently. Check the temperature at tortoise shell height by setting a digital thermometer on its back up on a bucket or tub or something the same height as your tortoise, and let it cook there for an hour. It should be no more than 100 at that height. Move the thermometer around to make sure there are no "hot spots" that can cook the top of the carapace.