Gardener in training here

[AuroraShire]

So as we get ready to get a shelled friend, I’ve been learning how to garden. I’ve been taking notes of what I’ve learned. My first lesson was that you need a substrate for plants that is going to hold enough moisture, but not too much. So I learned that coconut coir on its own is not a good medium in which to grow plants. It kept the plants alive but really stunted them. And I thought I’d share with you a picture of one of the flowers from my first batch that finally bloomed. And I bet no one can guess what kind of flower it is because of how tiiiiiiny it is

 

[Josh]

i like growing my torts' food as well. as much of it as i can!

 

[Mabelthetort]

So as we get ready to get a shelled friend, I’ve been learning how to garden. I’ve been taking notes of what I’ve learned. My first lesson was that you need a substrate for plants that is going to hold enough moisture, but not too much. So I learned that coconut coir on its own is not a good medium in which to grow plants. It kept the plants alive but really stunted them. And I thought I’d share with you a picture of one of the flowers from my first batch that finally bloomed. And I bet no one can guess what kind of flower it is because of how tiiiiiiny it is

Well, you’re doing better than me! New tortoise mum here, and I planted my seeds nearly two months ago and have yet to see a single flower I kept them too hot in the conservatory and half wilted, then I moved the survivors out and I think they’re stunted by the cold because they just stopped growing. I’m too scared to move them again! congrats on your tiny bloom.

 

[Tom]

So as we get ready to get a shelled friend, I’ve been learning how to garden. I’ve been taking notes of what I’ve learned. My first lesson was that you need a substrate for plants that is going to hold enough moisture, but not too much. So I learned that coconut coir on its own is not a good medium in which to grow plants. It kept the plants alive but really stunted them. And I thought I’d share with you a picture of one of the flowers from my first batch that finally bloomed. And I bet no one can guess what kind of flower it is because of how tiiiiiiny it is

Your next lesson is: Don't try to grow plants in the enclosure substrate. Here are the reasons why:
1. As you noted, the correct substrates for a tortoise aren't suitable to grow plants in. You need soil and fertilizers to grow plants, and tortoise should not have contact with either.
2. Once you have a tortoise you will quickly realize that any plants grown in the enclosure will be promptly trampled and/or eaten.

The solution: Grow your plants outside of the enclosure in garden beds or pots, or in pots inside the enclosure, in the correct type of soil for growing plants, then cut and feed them to your tortoise.

Most any soil will work for this. It can have "fertilizer", but be sure there are not other chemicals in it like, "weed 'n feed" or yard pesticides. Don't let the tortoise have direct access to this soil, but potted plants that can't be tipped over or allow the tortoise to reach the soil work well.

 

[AuroraShire]

@Tom thank you for this! I admit, I was looking forward to growing plants in the enclosure, until I realized that I couldn’t

This might be a silly question, but how do you deal with dirt issues outside? I ask because my backyard needs to be worked really bad. Currently, it’s full of invasive weeds that are toxic to tortoises. Considering that we have a long time before a baby will become big enough to even house outside, I know we’ve got years to figure this out. But we’ll need to add dirt to even out and create a suitable place for human and tortoise use. How would you add dirt to a backyard that would be safe for an outdoor tortoise enclosure?

 

[Tom]

@Tom thank you for this! I admit, I was looking forward to growing plants in the enclosure, until I realized that I couldn’t

This might be a silly question, but how do you deal with dirt issues outside? I ask because my backyard needs to be worked really bad. Currently, it’s full of invasive weeds that are toxic to tortoises. Considering that we have a long time before a baby will become big enough to even house outside, I know we’ve got years to figure this out. But we’ll need to add dirt to even out and create a suitable place for human and tortoise use. How would you add dirt to a backyard that would be safe for an outdoor tortoise enclosure?

Hmmm.... Many aspects to this. I just use to local "clean" dirt on my ranch. I build my pens and use the ground that is already there.

I hand pull the bad weeds all year long. If it's really bad, you can till under the bad sections, water the area so the seeds sprout, and then till it under again 2-3 weeks later. Repeat this process until there are no remaining "bad" seeds able to germinate, and then plant some pasture seed mix in that area. It usually takes two or three tillings to get rid of the bad stuff, and then that area is primed and ready for new "good" seeds.

To add dirt from an outside source, you will have to look for "clean" fill dirt, assess it as best you can, and take a little bit of a gamble that there is nothing chemically or physically bad in the dirt.

 

[AuroraShire]

I’ll get to it with these weeds. If it was just plantains and dandelions, I’d let them grow all summer, but unfortunately the ground ivy and thistles are starting to get out of control. So I just placed an order for some leather gardening gloves, and when they come in I’ll get started.

I’ll do what I can to do as much of the dirt work done long before we plan to put the tortoise out there so we can assess the situation. Tortoise aside, the ground here is heavily clay filled, so the dirt needs amending just for gardening

 

[Tom]

I’ll get to it with these weeds. If it was just plantains and dandelions, I’d let them grow all summer, but unfortunately the ground ivy and thistles are starting to get out of control. So I just placed an order for some leather gardening gloves, and when they come in I’ll get started.

I’ll do what I can to do as much of the dirt work done long before we plan to put the tortoise out there so we can assess the situation. Tortoise aside, the ground here is heavily clay filled, so the dirt needs amending just for gardening

I don't know about the ground ivy, but thistle is good tortoise food, and the spines don't bother the tortoises in the slightest. I feed regular thistle and milk thistle to mine frequently.

 

[AuroraShire]

I’ve considered growing milk thistle for tea before. I think if it were more contained, I’d just leave them, but they’ve about tripled their coverage of my yard since last year. And eventually having a yard filled with spiny plants won’t be fun. The ground ivy I’m on the fence about. It makes beautiful tiny purple flowers, and the bees love it. But the Tortoise Table says they’re toxic to tortoises. So I think I’ll just deal with the thistle for now and figure out the ivy when we get closer to tortoise time also thistle is so prolific around here, if I ever want to gather some, I‘ll have lots of places I can do that

Also, I cannot imagine having those spines in my mouth. It’s like watching a camel eat a cactus. We’re all just built different, I suppose!

 

[Tom]

I’ve considered growing milk thistle for tea before. I think if it were more contained, I’d just leave them, but they’ve about tripled their coverage of my yard since last year. And eventually having a yard filled with spiny plants won’t be fun. The ground ivy I’m on the fence about. It makes beautiful tiny purple flowers, and the bees love it. But the Tortoise Table says they’re toxic to tortoises. So I think I’ll just deal with the thistle for now and figure out the ivy when we get closer to tortoise time also thistle is so prolific around here, if I ever want to gather some, I‘ll have lots of places I can do that

Also, I cannot imagine having those spines in my mouth. It’s like watching a camel eat a cactus. We’re all just built different, I suppose!

Oh you have a sulcata... As it gets larger, you won't have a yard with any plants at all, much less spiny plants.

Years ago I had a trio of sulcatas. I had recently moved them outside full time and they were around 10-12 inches each. Now matter how much food I gave them or how many times a day I fed them, it all just vanished in minutes. I wanted to see how much they could eat, so I bought a whole case of romaine. It was big full heads of romaine, not the pared down store bought version. I put out an entire large head for each tortoise. The heads were larger than the tortoises. Gone in a few minutes. Another head. Gone. A third head for each tortoise, gone. As I pulled out the 10th head, I thought to myself, "Will these tortoises eat themselves to death?" I threw down that last head and they devoured it like they hadn't eaten in days. I decided to stop the experiment, but they carried on rampaging around the pen looking for any remotely edible scrap of anything that might have blown in on the wind, as if the lettuce was just an appetizer to get them ready to eat their next meal. Later that evening, I threw in some mulberry branches thinking they would eat them the next day. Nope. They devoured all of the leaves as if they hadn't just eaten 10 head of lettuce earlier in the day.

On that day I had a brief moment of panic. How on earth am I ever going to be able to provide enough food for these animals??? As I fed my camel and my donkey the next morning, the answer became clear to me. Grass hay. If a bale can feed a 1500 pound camel or a 300 pound donkey, then surely it can feed a 130 pound tortoise, right? It can indeed, and they take to it fairly easily, as luck would have it.

But yeah... Yard weeds? Not going to be a problem for much longer for you.

 

[AuroraShire]

That’s insane! Where does it all go?? I need to look up tortoise anatomy to see where all that romaine would fit. They’re like Labrador retriever's, but seemingly not predisposed to bloat. Might be hard to get a trocar through a sulcata shell…

And I don’t have a tortoise yet my plan is actually to go with a Burmese star once I get everything all set up. My yard is big enough for my dog and cat, and maybe some ducks if I worked it right. Which means that I could house half an adult sulcata, I think. No way could I handle one of those bad boys I told my husband that one qualification I have for any tortoise we get is that I need to be able to pick it up and move it on my own power. Definitely not the case for a sulcata.

Also, I don’t think my neighbors would appreciate the burrow they would undoubtedly dig under our fence. I read in your post that Burmese are much less destructive than

 

[Tom]

That’s insane! Where does it all go?? I need to look up tortoise anatomy to see where all that romaine would fit. They’re like Labrador retriever's, but seemingly not predisposed to bloat. Might be hard to get a trocar through a sulcata shell…

And I don’t have a tortoise yet my plan is actually to go with a Burmese star once I get everything all set up. My yard is big enough for my dog and cat, and maybe some ducks if I worked it right. Which means that I could house half an adult sulcata, I think. No way could I handle one of those bad boys I told my husband that one qualification I have for any tortoise we get is that I need to be able to pick it up and move it on my own power. Definitely not the case for a sulcata.

Also, I don’t think my neighbors would appreciate the burrow they would undoubtedly dig under our fence. I read in your post that Burmese are much less destructive than

Oh my mistake. For some reason I thought you had a sulcata. Apologies. Yes, a Burmese star is MUCH more manageable up there, especially over winter. I've got about 60 eggs cooking in the incubator right now. Let me know when the time comes...

 

[AuroraShire]

Hah, I’m excited to hear that! I’ve also chatted with @Markw84 about getting a tort from him. I do really want to experience the baby phase if possible. Not sure who I’ll end up going with. You’ve both been so helpful, wish I could get a whole herd from you guys, but of course that would complicate the winter months lol

My current plan is to get the tortoise enclosure built by the end of the month, and run it for a few days or a week before ordering the tortoise. I really don’t want to be stressing over humidity or heat confusion when the little guy is in it already!

Also, I’ve been wondering. Do tortoises lay eggs when there’s no male around, like birds?

 

[Tom]

I like to raise tortoises in small groups. Get two from Mark and two from me. Unrelated. Four is a nice number, and that wouldn't be too difficult to manage indoors over winter for this species.

In most cases, females won't lay eggs when there is no male present, but every once in a while, I hear about a case of it happening.

 

[AuroraShire]

How much space would they need indoors for all four?

 

[Tom]

How much space would they need indoors for all four?

4x8 would be enough to get them through the winter months if they had a large outdoor enclosure for the warmer months.

You can get three of Mark's Smart Enclosures and make a 12x3 foot enclosure. If you have the space, you can do a 16x3 foot Smart Enclosure. Now THAT would be cool!