Help - Russian Tortoise Inactive For Days

[seegogh]

Hi,

My 5-yrs tortoise has been burying himself for roughly two weeks, not coming up, not eating. I bathed him once last week but it didn’t help with his status. I am not sure if he is sick, hoping anyone with similar experiences could advise how to identify the cause and change the situation.

Prior to his change (from active to inactive), we changed bedding for him. It was the same type of mulch as we used for a couple of years. The difference is that the new mulch is more damp.

Room temperature is between 70 to 74 F. And UVA & UVB have been used during daytime with a fixed schedule all-year-round thru wifi-controlled outlet.

It hasn’t brumated since we have it as a baby. I searched the Internet that due to temperature and daylight change, tortoise might start fasting before brumation. But our indoor temperature varies little thru the year.

Normally, we feed him lettuce and small amount of blue berries (he likes blue berries very much). Since last bath, he only ate two blue berries and no lettuce. Then he hasn’t come our from the bedding. There is little movement from what we hear.

We haven’t noticed running nose, sniffing. The little poop in current bedding is in good shape. In the past years from autumn to winter, there were 3-5 days for him being inactive. But this time it has been a long time.

Any insight would be appreciated!

 

[TheTortoiseKing]

Hello! Welcome! It would be helpful to know a few things first:
What species do you have?
What's your setup like? Pictures would be helpful.
What are basking, Ambient, Cool side, and night time temps?
Any info can help us.

 

[seegogh]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

It is a Russian Tortoise.

Pls find set up shown in the attached photo.

I don’t have exact temps for basking and ambient. Basking bulb wattage was originally recommended by reptile store and no change for the past years.Cool side and night time temps should be similar as room temperatures, ranging 70 to 74 F.

70 F is not cold enough for him to go brumation, right?

I can dig him out and take another photo to see if he has any sickness signs.

Thanks again.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Have you read the brumation thread by @Tom ? He lists steps you can take to try to get your tortoise more active again, and I think they a worth a shot here too:

"Here are steps to take if you don't want to brumate your temperate species:
1. Add bright LED lighting in the 5000-6500K color range. Lots of it. Make it look like daytime outside looks.
2. Set light timers to be on for 13-14 hours.
3. Bump all ambient temperatures up a bit.
4. Keep night temps warmer. Shoot for no lower than the 70s over night.
5. Pull the tortoise out of hiding and soak it often. Don't let it stay hidden in a cool hide box all day.
6. I usually run HO UV tubes for 2-3 hours mid day. To keep a tortoise up, I might bump them up to 6-8 hours a day."

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hi,

Thanks for your reply.

It is a Russian Tortoise.

Pls find set up shown in the attached photo.

I don’t have exact temps for basking and ambient. Basking bulb wattage was originally recommended by reptile store and no change for the past years.Cool side and night time temps should be similar as room temperatures, ranging 70 to 74 F.

70 F is not cold enough for him to go brumation, right?

I can dig him out and take another photo to see if he has any sickness signs.

Thanks again.

Hello, I’m afraid to say his enclosure is going to need upgrading as soon as you’re able, glass tanks are far too small for any adult tortoise, too small a space can definitely effect activity levels, though I have a feeling this is more season related.

Temperatures are super important to know, so I’d definitely get yourself some digital monitoring, you can get some cheap ones at hardware stores.

For lighting, It’s best going with a separate uvb and heat set up(still mounted close) having combined heat and uv, means when adjusting your height to create the desired basking temperature, you’re messing with your UVI zone, they are much more desiccating on the shell and their uv output often very unreliable.
There’s the added fact of uv timing, with the uv timing, every other source of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity. Whilst not necessarily dangerous, it’s potentially annoying to the tortoise to have 12hours on uv in the enclosure.
The right uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle as well as the basking light on the same 12hrs, your ceramics(if needed) will run 24/7 on a thermostat, hope that all makes sense
The most recommended up to date indoor uv option is t5 tube fluorescent bulbs, they disperse the uv light over a much wider area. Recommended brands are Arcadia proT5 kit 12% or zoo med reptisun t5 10.0(hood usually sold separate)

You can adjust lighting timings as the weather gets colder if you aren’t wanting to brumate him, so you can have basking and ambient lighting on for 14hours instead of 12, and uvb on for 6.

Hopefully you’ll find this posts helpful;

This thread covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc, definitely double check bulb types, folks unfortunately sold the wrong ones often), correct levels, appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and a really handy diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it, I have a huge back log I need to add. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking ahe’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room. If you’re unable to go that big, go as big as you can.

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Now that housing thread discusses an open top set up, which is fine for adult tortoises, but I will say, during colder weather, for those who don’t brumate their temperate species, they can really struggle keeping their temperates where needed, a cover can come in really handy for maintaining your heat

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, this one here is probably most important to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Phew! Really hope this all helps! I know it’s a lot to go over sorrybut take all the time you need! They’ll always be folks to help with any further questions! We can break things down bit by bit, and help step by step, I think this does sound like a winter slow down, best you can do is keep ambient temperatures nice and warm during the day, increase lighting for a few hours, make sure it’s all nice and lit(definitely add some ambient lighting in the middle), if he still continues to slow down, it might be worth considering the steps for brumation

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Welcome to the forum! Don’t hesitate to ask more questions

 

[seegogh]

Have you read the brumation thread by @Tom ? He lists steps you can take to try to get your tortoise more active again, and I think they a worth a shot here too:

"Here are steps to take if you don't want to brumate your temperate species:
1. Add bright LED lighting in the 5000-6500K color range. Lots of it. Make it look like daytime outside looks.
2. Set light timers to be on for 13-14 hours.
3. Bump all ambient temperatures up a bit.
4. Keep night temps warmer. Shoot for no lower than the 70s over night.
5. Pull the tortoise out of hiding and soak it often. Don't let it stay hidden in a cool hide box all day.
6. I usually run HO UV tubes for 2-3 hours mid day. To keep a tortoise up, I might bump them up to 6-8 hours a day."

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Hi,

Thank you for sharing! This is really helpful!!

I saw your reply in the morning and read thru Tom's Brumation thread. Fun fact that they somehow know that winter is coming even kept without daylight. It is not good to keep current status for a long time. We decided to bring him up and soak him more often for him to be active. If unsuccessful, then we will help him brumate.

Digged him up (closed to the warm area) and bathed him. He doesn't seem to be sick. Now I am much less worried!

 

[seegogh]

Hello, I’m afraid to say his enclosure is going to need upgrading as soon as you’re able, glass tanks are far too small for any adult tortoise, too small a space can definitely effect activity levels, though I have a feeling this is more season related.

Temperatures are super important to know, so I’d definitely get yourself some digital monitoring, you can get some cheap ones at hardware stores.

For lighting, It’s best going with a separate uvb and heat set up(still mounted close) having combined heat and uv, means when adjusting your height to create the desired basking temperature, you’re messing with your UVI zone, they are much more desiccating on the shell and their uv output often very unreliable.
There’s the added fact of uv timing, with the uv timing, every other source of information will tell you 12hours of uv. This is essentially an old fashioned rule that has stuck with a lot of keepers, it stems from the presumption that once the basking light or ambient lighting is on, ie the ‘sun’, that uv must coexist the same amount of hours. Fact is, uv rays only peak for a few hours a day, anyone with a uv meter will confirm this. No tortoise is blasted with 12 hours of uv in the wild, therefore it’s not necessary in captivity. Whilst not necessarily dangerous, it’s potentially annoying to the tortoise to have 12hours on uv in the enclosure.
The right uv bulbs are much more expensive to replace once their uv strength diminishes, so it’s definitely best having it on a 4 hour timer that provides them with all the uv they need, saving your bulb life.
Then some cheaper led lighting for your ambient 12 hour light cycle as well as the basking light on the same 12hrs, your ceramics(if needed) will run 24/7 on a thermostat, hope that all makes sense
The most recommended up to date indoor uv option is t5 tube fluorescent bulbs, they disperse the uv light over a much wider area. Recommended brands are Arcadia proT5 kit 12% or zoo med reptisun t5 10.0(hood usually sold separate)

You can adjust lighting timings as the weather gets colder if you aren’t wanting to brumate him, so you can have basking and ambient lighting on for 14hours instead of 12, and uvb on for 6.

Hopefully you’ll find this posts helpful;

This thread covers correct equipment(uvb, heating bulbs, lighting etc, definitely double check bulb types, folks unfortunately sold the wrong ones often), correct levels, appropriately maintaining the humidity, safe substrates, there’s lots of visual examples for everything, and a really handy diet link to check out!

Housing adult Russian and Hermans indoors

Hello there! In this thread I’m going to include some information an example of an appropriate indoor set up for an older Herman/russian. As much as it’s encouraged to have tortoises in a safe outdoor enclosure, I understand being from the uk myself, that some climates make it difficult to...

tortoiseforum.org

This includes lots of inspiration for an adult set up both indoors and out! The indoor bit has some good ideas to tackle indoor space whilst still providing the needed roaming room! Check comments too, I’m always adding to it, I have a huge back log I need to add. I know the recommended adult size is intimidating to some, especially if you’ve been lead into thinking ahe’ll be fine in a smaller set up(very common) but tortoises long term health really does rely on lots of roaming room. If you’re unable to go that big, go as big as you can.

Enclosure inspiration

Howdy folks! Hope everyone is well! As you all know, I’m a big fan of making threads that cater more towards visual learners like myself, I’ve really been wanting to create a thread full of adult enclosure inspiration for a while now, I’ve managed to find some great references over time! I do...

tortoiseforum.org

Now that housing thread discusses an open top set up, which is fine for adult tortoises, but I will say, during colder weather, for those who don’t brumate their temperate species, they can really struggle keeping their temperates where needed, a cover can come in really handy for maintaining your heat

Visual inspiration

Hi guys! I’ve had some lovely messages complimenting me on my care sheets I made for all the visuals they include! That makes me so happy because as a visual learner myself, that was my goal🥰 I’ve recently had some requests for some more visual inspiration for set ups that can house babies/...

tortoiseforum.org

Lastly, this one here is probably most important to go over and keep on hand, it’ll help you avoid the wrong bulbs, substrates, housing etc, I always encourage double checking purchases on the forum too before buying

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Phew! Really hope this all helps! I know it’s a lot to go over sorrybut take all the time you need! They’ll always be folks to help with any further questions! We can break things down bit by bit, and help step by step, I think this does sound like a winter slow down, best you can do is keep ambient temperatures nice and warm during the day, increase lighting for a few hours, make sure it’s all nice and lit(definitely add some ambient lighting in the middle), if he still continues to slow down, it might be worth considering the steps for brumation

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

Welcome to the forum! Don’t hesitate to ask more questions

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply — it’s truly appreciated! It actually took me a while to go through all the threads you shared, but I’m really glad I did. I’m honestly touched, because nowadays most internet posts are getting shorter and shallower, while your messages here go deep and are full of real guidance. I only wish I had found this forum years earlier!


Everything you mentioned is incredibly useful for getting things right. My current terrarium setup is indeed the outdated chain-store version. The lighting part should be easy enough to fix, but space will take some time. Before buying this terrarium, I actually hoped to make a two-storey enclosure for him — but no one in our household is handy with woodworking, unfortunately . Still, as with us humans, every creature lives within certain limits — from shacks to palaces! The best we can do is keep improving within our means. It’s going to be a long-term project, but we’ll get there. We do let him play on the terrace during warm days, so at least he gets a bit of outdoor time.


One small question — my tortoise never soaks or drinks water on his own. Whenever he sees a water dish or shallow pond, he just walks around it. Is that normal?


For now, we will soak him once a day or two to see if that helps skip brumation. If not, we’ll follow instructions and start preparing for his first proper brumation.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply — it’s truly appreciated! It actually took me a while to go through all the threads you shared, but I’m really glad I did. I’m honestly touched, because nowadays most internet posts are getting shorter and shallower, while your messages here go deep and are full of real guidance. I only wish I had found this forum years earlier!


Everything you mentioned is incredibly useful for getting things right. My current terrarium setup is indeed the outdated chain-store version. The lighting part should be easy enough to fix, but space will take some time. Before buying this terrarium, I actually hoped to make a two-storey enclosure for him — but no one in our household is handy with woodworking, unfortunately . Still, as with us humans, every creature lives within certain limits — from shacks to palaces! The best we can do is keep improving within our means. It’s going to be a long-term project, but we’ll get there. We do let him play on the terrace during warm days, so at least he gets a bit of outdoor time.


One small question — my tortoise never soaks or drinks water on his own. Whenever he sees a water dish or shallow pond, he just walks around it. Is that normal?


For now, we will soak him once a day or two to see if that helps skip brumation. If not, we’ll follow instructions and start preparing for his first proper brumation.

No problem at all! I’m so glad you found them helpfulthere are a few threads that discuss making two story set ups, I can pass them on if you like?
Absolutely, we all do what we can within our means, its not always perfect, but it’s all a learning curve.

Yeah it’s completely normal for a Russian not to self soak, they aren’t the biggest fans of water generally speaking, but a soak routine is very important to upkeep, it helps keeping them well hydrated, to avoid things like bladder stonesit’s also a good opportunity for the tortoise to empty their bowels, don’t worry if he seems stressy in the water, our captive tortoises have such cushy lives compared to the wild, the benefits soaks provide far outweigh the stress they cause, it’s actually good exercise for them too. I wouldn’t worry about doing multiple soaks a day, you could do one a day if you wish, certainly won’t hurt, but one every other day is fine too. For the drinking, it’s often so quick and subtle, it’s easy to miss during the day

 

[MenagerieGrl]

Hi,

Thank you for sharing! This is really helpful!!

I saw your reply in the morning and read thru Tom's Brumation thread. Fun fact that they somehow know that winter is coming even kept without daylight. It is not good to keep current status for a long time. We decided to bring him up and soak him more often for him to be active. If unsuccessful, then we will help him brumate.

Digged him up (closed to the warm area) and bathed him. He doesn't seem to be sick. Now I am much less worried!

They just know the seasons are changing, My Tortle's are going through their seasonal slow down. My boxies will get to the point where they won't eat for a couple of months.

 

[seegogh]

No problem at all! I’m so glad you found them helpfulthere are a few threads that discuss making two story set ups, I can pass them on if you like?
Absolutely, we all do what we can within our means, its not always perfect, but it’s all a learning curve.

Yeah it’s completely normal for a Russian not to self soak, they aren’t the biggest fans of water generally speaking, but a soak routine is very important to upkeep, it helps keeping them well hydrated, to avoid things like bladder stonesit’s also a good opportunity for the tortoise to empty their bowels, don’t worry if he seems stressy in the water, our captive tortoises have such cushy lives compared to the wild, the benefits soaks provide far outweigh the stress they cause, it’s actually good exercise for them too. I wouldn’t worry about doing multiple soaks a day, you could do one a day if you wish, certainly won’t hurt, but one every other day is fine too. For the drinking, it’s often so quick and subtle, it’s easy to miss during the day

Hello,

We have added 5000K light and been trying to soak him almost daily for a week (skipped one day as we weren't home). He had only a little bite of food twice. We put him on our floor to walk around for 30 to 60 mins. Then he would just bask a while then buried himself again.

Currently lightening is up for 13 hours. I will prolong to 14 hours from tomorrow.

HO UV added yesterday, turning on 5-6 hrs today.

Temp is 71F during night time.

As understood from @Tom 's thread that this inactive situation is bad if limbo for a long time. It was two weeks before I posted here and then one week for trying to bring him up but it doesn't seem successful so far. How much time do we have to make a decision to prepare for brumation? What worst will come out if we keep bringing him up but failing (as he is not eating much) for let's say another one or two month?


Including @The_Four_Toed_Edward @MenagerieGrl

Any insight would be much appreciated!

 

[COmtnLady]

It looks like he could use a beak trim soon. Its important to catch it before it chips or cracks - which can cause a myriad of problems. Feeding from terracotta and/or an abrasive stone/slab would help keep it worn down, but since its overgrown at the moment, it needs trimmed.

It would be good to remove that brown bowl-ish thing from his enclosure. Its not tortoise-friendly, being too small around and deep like that... If he were to attempt to get a drink he could get stuck. Instead provide a new terracotta plant saucer that's big enough for him to easily turn around in. Bigger is always better. It should be countersunk down into the substrate until its close to even with the surface, for ease of entry and exit (though with a Russian he may mostly avoid it).

 

[seegogh]

Hi,

Yes, we bought terra cotta one a couple of days ago but he only fed a little.

How to trim the beak, please,

Thanks!

 

[seegogh]

It looks like he could use a beak trim soon. Its important to catch it before it chips or cracks - which can cause a myriad of problems. Feeding from terracotta and/or an abrasive stone/slab would help keep it worn down, but since its overgrown at the moment, it needs trimmed.

It would be good to remove that brown bowl-ish thing from his enclosure. Its not tortoise-friendly, being too small around and deep like that... If he were to attempt to get a drink he could get stuck. Instead provide a new terracotta plant saucer that's big enough for him to easily turn around in. Bigger is always better. It should be countersunk down into the substrate until its close to even with the surface, for ease of entry and exit (though with a Russian he may mostly avoid it).

Hi,

My husband gave a try. Does it look good now? Photo attached.

Thanks again!

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hi,

My husband gave a try. Does it look good now? Photo attached.

Thanks again!

Hey sorry for the delay! I’m hoping @Tom can offer some insight on whether he thinks it best you start to prepare for brumation, as for the beak, looking better, the top could still do with a little more off but you can leave it for now and do it gradually