HELP Weird pooping behaviour

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

My Russian was kind of kicking/scratching his tail while pooping today. He was walking in his enclousure wagging his tail like usual, but he was also kicking his tail with one of his legs like he was struggling. He pooped two small poops.

He passed some bladder stones a few weeks ago.

@Tom @wellington @Yvonne G

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Here is a link to the thread about his bladder stones: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/gritty-urates-or-cuttle-bone-being-passed-or-what.215927/

I have been feeding him dilurantic foods like ice berg lettuce and cucumber every other day. He passed a normal urate yesterday and a normal poop earlier today.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

I haven't been able to get it on video, but it is very similar to post #3 on this thread: https://tortoiseforum.org/threads/advice-please-tail-rubbing.131774/

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Now he did it again, along with some mating squeaks, have you heard about anything like this @Alex and the Redfoot

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Unfortunately, no. But it sounds like he is struggling, maybe another stone is on the way. Have you done an X-ray?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

No not yet, since I was prior given the advice that it isn't needed. Of course these are concerning symptoms. Do you think a fecal sample would also be needed? Could this be beacause of parasites? I am trying to find mineral oil from my city.

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Maybe a fecal and an xray might be an idea, hope your guy feels better soon❤️

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

He finally pooped after trying on and off for 2 hours. The poop was a bit undigested and there was a long coconut fiber. I will still buy the paraffin oil, but do you think that I still should find a vet that could do the x-ray.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Some undigested pieces are ok, as I understand - some plant matter is undigestable (look at sulcata turds, for example).

Since your tortoises past is unclear - I would do an X-ray to know if there are stones, blockages and such. Probably, any vet clinic with a portable X-ray scanner can do this.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Some undigested pieces are ok, as I understand - some plant matter is undigestable (look at sulcata turds, for example).

Since your tortoises past is unclear - I would do an X-ray to know if there are stones, blockages and such. Probably, any vet clinic with a portable X-ray scanner can do this.

They probably can do it, I will just have to find one that is willing to do one. (They might not want to do one they can't diagnose themselves). I got the parafin oil. Should I try it if this happens next time?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Do I need to get the contrast agent for the xrays? Is anesthesia required?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

They probably can do it, I will just have to find one that is willing to do one. (They might not want to do one they can't diagnose themselves). I got the parafin oil. Should I try it if this happens next time?

You may apply it to cloaka area. But I wonder what's the cause.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Do I need to get the contrast agent for the xrays? Is anesthesia required?

No, this is done without contrast. If tortoise cooperates it's done without sedation. If not, it's either done quick before it moves or with a help from keeper. The last option is sedation, but I would avoid it when vet have no tortoise experience.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Would some kind of taping help if the tortoise doesn't co-operate? What views should I ask for/how many pictures are needed? I don't think any of the vets have experience with tortoise sedation.

 

[EppsDynasty]

Have you tried long warm soaks .... I only ask this as it may help make the poop a little softer and easy to pass.

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Have you tried long warm soaks .... I only ask this as it may help make the poop a little softer and easy to pass.

I have done 30 min soaks daily after he passed 2 bladder stones over a week ago.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Would some kind of taping help if the tortoise doesn't co-operate? What views should I ask for/how many pictures are needed? I don't think any of the vets have experience with tortoise sedation.

I think you can tuck it against the Veterinary Manual book and this will give you a few minutes. Usually, you need one projection from the plastron side.

 

[Tom]

Now he did it again, along with some mating squeaks, have you heard about anything like this @Alex and the Redfoot

This sounds like constipation. Coco fiber shouldn't be used for tortoise substrate. This is why. They need the finely ground coir, also called, "coco peat". There shouldn't be any of that stringy husk fiber in there.

X-rays can eliminate several possibilities. Bladder stones, impaction, foreign body ingestion, etc...

I'm not familiar with "paraffin oil". Is that another name for "mineral oil"?

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

This sounds like constipation. Coco fiber shouldn't be used for tortoise substrate. This is why. They need the finely ground coir, also called, "coco peat". There shouldn't be any of that stringy husk fiber in there.

X-rays can eliminate several possibilities. Bladder stones, impaction, foreign body ingestion, etc...

I'm not familiar with "paraffin oil". Is that another name for "mineral oil"?

I use coco peat (like coffee ground consistency), but there were some longer fibers. I tried to get them all out, but maybe I didn't succeed since there clearly was some long fibers in the poop.

Yes, paraffin oil and mineral oil are the same thing.

I found one vet that will take 1-4 xray photos for 100€, I will try to contact them tomorrow weather or not they can x ray a tortoise (or are willing to).

 

[The_Four_Toed_Edward]

Basically problem is, I am a student and my budjegt is tight. My parents still have some influence over my money matters, and my dad isn't convinced on the x-ray, he seems to be against it for now at least, these are his reasons:
1) X-rays are expensive, at least 100€ for 1-4 photos + some for the clinic visit
2) Edward pooped after all and was back to acting normal
3) He isn't convinced that this is related to the bladder stones. He thinks it was just caused by the coir and undigested food, possibly a tummy ache at worst
4) Edward had made one normal poop earlier that day and passed normal urates the previous day
5) Even though a x-ray was done, and it revealed something, there is no vet that could do anything, especially if surgery was needed. My dad basically thinks that x-ray is only needed when considering euthanasia.

Basically, even if there was a blockage revealed, would there be anything to do, as the vets around me only do soft tissue surgery? Would euthanasia be an option you would consider in my case if the x-ray revealed an blockage from the stones? I mean he is acting all normal and I don't want to give him a death sentence.

Here is a photo of the resulting poop from yesterday and the fibers I have been collecting from his substrate: