How can I be a better owner?

[kurttheturt]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on this forum so excuse me if I make any mistakes, I’m also on mobile.

Basically to explain this post:
Sometimes I feel like a really terrible tortoise owner even though I do my research I feel like I’m not giving him a good enough quality of life.

For background information:
I have an around 2 year old Russian tortoise. I’ve had him for a year now, and for the first half of owning him he was indoors in an approximately 12 gallon tank. My dad and I then built him an outdoor enclosure but it isn’t much bigger at 2x4 in size, and I have plans to build a larger one but I don’t know if I want it inside or outside, I’ll explain more later on why. I have always provided him with fresh water and food every day or every other day, and I dust his food with calcium powder and soak him once a month as well as take him out to explore the backyard. He doesn’t have any pyramiding from what I can tell. I use a mix of coco fiber and cypress mulch for his substrate. I live in Los Angeles, California so the weather is generally on the mild side.

Concerns:
I know that the enclosure is too small and I am going to build a larger one but I don’t really have space in my house for the recommended 4x8 size, and I am worried to put him outside especially as winter is coming up and I’m not the best at carpentry or wiring for outdoor lamps and stuff, and I haven’t hibernated him before and am frankly a bit scared to do so in fear of doing it wrong. Does anyone have any tips for this? Are there any good pre built tortoise tables or easy to make setups that work for a male Russian that you guys could recommend? Another concern of mine is that when I let him out to wander, he always tries to eat rocks and pebbles. I’ve looked it up and it said it may be due to calcium deficiency but I always make sure I give him calcium in the form of powder and cuttlefish bone, so what could be the cause of this? Another concern is that I’m not feeding him a wide enough variety of foods. I mainly feed him spring mix as I don’t really have access to a home garden but I’ve been trying to research safe things I can feed him from around my neighborhood. I do feed him hibiscus when the flowers bloom though.

Questions:
How often should I be feeding him? I generally feed him every other day though sometimes I go a bit longer and he overall seems healthy, he’s a 2 year old Russian just as a reminder and he’s about 6 inches long.
Any recommendations for good enrichment activities? He’s usually shy when I pick him up for the first time in a while but he perks up after a bit. His enclosure has places for him to dig and hide and not much else, should I add a wheel or something?
Is soaking once a month okay, or should I do it more often?
What are more tips you guys have should I keep him outside? I have an enclosed backyard but there are a lot of outdoor cats that come by and I’m also worried about birds. I’m just overall scared of housing him outside because of nature and that I’ll make a mistake somewhere along the lines.
Really, why does he keep trying to eat pebbles? It’s all he does!


I think that’s all for now, I hope you guys don’t see me as a terrible and cruel tortoise owner because I’m genuinely trying my best with what resources I have and I can provide more for him but I’ve been at a loss of how to do so and I should’ve posted here sooner. I genuinely love my tortoise and I did do research before I got him but as he’s gotten bigger I’m needing to adapt some more. Please try to be nice in the replies if possible… thank you for taking the time to read my post and I look forward to seeing the responses I get! Attached is a photo of Kurtis. Would someone please let me know if his scutes look healthy? If there’s any pyramiding his shell has generally looked this way since I got him, and he was already around a year and a half when I did.

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

Hello and welcome!
Your intent to provide him a better life is more important than past mistakes. That's what makes you a good tortoise owner.

If you haven't seen this post already, I recommend to read it carefully (and Temperate species care sheet and Tom's Brumation Thread linked at the bottom of that post):

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

While some things can be done differently, these care sheets are very good baselines and reference guides.

His shell has some bumps and shape hints there was some UVB/exercise/calcium deficiency in the past. As you didn't mention him dragging his body on the ground and hind legs problems - condition is not severe.

1. Most tortoise tables and enclosures you can get "off the shelf" aren't suitable or overly expensive. So many keepers resort to DIY: retrofitting IKEA bookcases, using raised garden beds for enclosure base or building from scratch out of expanded PVC or wood. Custom built enclosures can be made in different shapes and sizes (L-shaped, double-level and so on) to perfectly fit into available room space.
2. A hamster wheel can be a good addition to tortoise enclosure. I'm not 100% sure about safety (there is a risk of flipping), but haven't seen this issue on the forum yet.
3. For the outdoor pen you can use wired chicken coops from Tractor Supply, raised garden bed and such if you don't feel yourself proficient with woodworking.
4. Eating pebbles and stones can be a calcium deficiency or just the opposite - abundance of calcium (which interferes with other microelements intake) and lack of other minerals. To mitigate this - use calcium supplement 1-2 times a week only and add complex mineral supplement (like Miner-All) once a week.
5. Hibiscus leaves are edible and better than flowers - so feed them too.
6. Soaking him once a month is fine for adult tortoises, but he is still juvenile so try to do that more often (once-twice a week).

Please, ask more questions and don't worry - we do not to blame anyone (that won't help neither keeper nor tortoise).

 

[wellington]

Hello and Welcome.
Yes, the bumps mentioned is pyramiding and the bottoms shell seems a bit odd shaped from what I see in the side. Could be lack of calcium, or space.
Follow the advice given above and in the links they attached.
Feed every day and you do need to add a better diet. If you have to do grocery greens, use arugula, escarole, endive, riddichio, and in small amounts of kale, mustard greens, collard greens, romaine and the spring mix minus most of the spinach.
The hamster wheel needs to be one of the bigger ones made more for guinea pigs or larger.
If the only place you can give him the proper space is outside, then that's where you should house him and then brumate/hibernate him in winter. In winter you could also let him be outside all day when it's above 70 and then bring him in only to sleep at night. The space you have kept him in is much too small and not even recommended for a hatchling, so that needs immediate improving along with the diet.
Be sure to always have a clay saucer of water available for him and feed a pile of food every day that he can graze on all day.
There are easy ways to build or buy a safe outdoor enclosure, that birds or cats can't get to him.
Read thru all the info given and come back with any more questions.
We will help with everything the best we can.

 

[TammyJ]

Welcome to the forum! Give your tortoise all he will eat every single day, a large, secure enclosure with the correct temperature and humidity, and soak him twice per week or more! Watch him get happy 😊.

 

[kurttheturt]

Hello and welcome!
Your intent to provide him a better life is more important than past mistakes. That's what makes you a good tortoise owner.

If you haven't seen this post already, I recommend to read it carefully (and Temperate species care sheet and Tom's Brumation Thread linked at the bottom of that post):

Info For New People. Please Read This First.

Hello and welcome to tortoiseforum.org! We are all glad you are here! There is no other forum like this anywhere. We have tens of thousands of members from all over the world ranging from kids with their first tortoise to people who have been breeding and keeping high end tortoises since the...

tortoiseforum.org

While some things can be done differently, these care sheets are very good baselines and reference guides.

His shell has some bumps and shape hints there was some UVB/exercise/calcium deficiency in the past. As you didn't mention him dragging his body on the ground and hind legs problems - condition is not severe.

1. Most tortoise tables and enclosures you can get "off the shelf" aren't suitable or overly expensive. So many keepers resort to DIY: retrofitting IKEA bookcases, using raised garden beds for enclosure base or building from scratch out of expanded PVC or wood. Custom built enclosures can be made in different shapes and sizes (L-shaped, double-level and so on) to perfectly fit into available room space.
2. A hamster wheel can be a good addition to tortoise enclosure. I'm not 100% sure about safety (there is a risk of flipping), but haven't seen this issue on the forum yet.
3. For the outdoor pen you can use wired chicken coops from Tractor Supply, raised garden bed and such if you don't feel yourself proficient with woodworking.
4. Eating pebbles and stones can be a calcium deficiency or just the opposite - abundance of calcium (which interferes with other microelements intake) and lack of other minerals. To mitigate this - use calcium supplement 1-2 times a week only and add complex mineral supplement (like Miner-All) once a week.
5. Hibiscus leaves are edible and better than flowers - so feed them too.
6. Soaking him once a month is fine for adult tortoises, but he is still juvenile so try to do that more often (once-twice a week).

Please, ask more questions and don't worry - we do not to blame anyone (that won't help neither keeper nor tortoise).

Thank you! What should the hind legs look like? He seems to walk on them fine he seems to use the front of them more than the bottom?

 

[kurttheturt]

Thank you! What should the hind legs look like? He seems to walk on them fine he seems to use the front of them more than the bottom?

 

[Alex and the Redfoot]

A normal tortoise walk is with shell lifted above the ground and legs under the the shell (not splayed out to the sides). If your tortoises walks like sea turtle babies rushing to the water - something's wrong.

I see no issues with legs on the photo.

 

[wellington]

He looks to have metabolic bone disease, but I don't think he does as I believe it's his round bottom shell is that makes him slant towards his tail end. His bottom shell should not be so easy to see on the sides like yours is.
@Yvonne G

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Hello everyone! This is my first post on this forum so excuse me if I make any mistakes, I’m also on mobile.

Basically to explain this post:
Sometimes I feel like a really terrible tortoise owner even though I do my research I feel like I’m not giving him a good enough quality of life.

For background information:
I have an around 2 year old Russian tortoise. I’ve had him for a year now, and for the first half of owning him he was indoors in an approximately 12 gallon tank. My dad and I then built him an outdoor enclosure but it isn’t much bigger at 2x4 in size, and I have plans to build a larger one but I don’t know if I want it inside or outside, I’ll explain more later on why. I have always provided him with fresh water and food every day or every other day, and I dust his food with calcium powder and soak him once a month as well as take him out to explore the backyard. He doesn’t have any pyramiding from what I can tell. I use a mix of coco fiber and cypress mulch for his substrate. I live in Los Angeles, California so the weather is generally on the mild side.

Concerns:
I know that the enclosure is too small and I am going to build a larger one but I don’t really have space in my house for the recommended 4x8 size, and I am worried to put him outside especially as winter is coming up and I’m not the best at carpentry or wiring for outdoor lamps and stuff, and I haven’t hibernated him before and am frankly a bit scared to do so in fear of doing it wrong. Does anyone have any tips for this? Are there any good pre built tortoise tables or easy to make setups that work for a male Russian that you guys could recommend? Another concern of mine is that when I let him out to wander, he always tries to eat rocks and pebbles. I’ve looked it up and it said it may be due to calcium deficiency but I always make sure I give him calcium in the form of powder and cuttlefish bone, so what could be the cause of this? Another concern is that I’m not feeding him a wide enough variety of foods. I mainly feed him spring mix as I don’t really have access to a home garden but I’ve been trying to research safe things I can feed him from around my neighborhood. I do feed him hibiscus when the flowers bloom though.

Questions:
How often should I be feeding him? I generally feed him every other day though sometimes I go a bit longer and he overall seems healthy, he’s a 2 year old Russian just as a reminder and he’s about 6 inches long.
Any recommendations for good enrichment activities? He’s usually shy when I pick him up for the first time in a while but he perks up after a bit. His enclosure has places for him to dig and hide and not much else, should I add a wheel or something?
Is soaking once a month okay, or should I do it more often?
What are more tips you guys have should I keep him outside? I have an enclosed backyard but there are a lot of outdoor cats that come by and I’m also worried about birds. I’m just overall scared of housing him outside because of nature and that I’ll make a mistake somewhere along the lines.
Really, why does he keep trying to eat pebbles? It’s all he does!


I think that’s all for now, I hope you guys don’t see me as a terrible and cruel tortoise owner because I’m genuinely trying my best with what resources I have and I can provide more for him but I’ve been at a loss of how to do so and I should’ve posted here sooner. I genuinely love my tortoise and I did do research before I got him but as he’s gotten bigger I’m needing to adapt some more. Please try to be nice in the replies if possible… thank you for taking the time to read my post and I look forward to seeing the responses I get! Attached is a photo of Kurtis. Would someone please let me know if his scutes look healthy? If there’s any pyramiding his shell has generally looked this way since I got him, and he was already around a year and a half when I did. View attachment 378293

Hello and welcome!🐢💚

First up, as stated above, the fact you are here trying to learn how to better improve your tortoises life is what is important and makes you a caring owner! We don’t judge past mistakes here, fact is many people like yourself haven’t done it with any ill intention whatsoever, so please don’t worry❤️no one is born knowing how to best care for a tortoise!

Enclosure size wise, we do as you know recommend 8x4 foot as a minimum size, at the same time we understand we aren’t in a perfect world, many folks have brought their tortoise without realising the space they need and simply do not have it. My best advice to this is, go as big as you can absolutely go, don’t think ‘what’s the minimum I could get away with’ think ‘what’s the largest space I can possibly provide’, there’s way to effectively combat space issues too like Alex suggested, you could experiment with different enclosure shapes like an ‘L’ for example, or create a second level(provided ramp is safe and the incline isn’t too steep)
Brumation wise, if it’s not something you feel comfortable or confident with, you don’t have to do it, but you will need to be hosing them inside over the winter with the right temps to stop them, hence it is important you try to go big as you can inside, they’ll be spending a significant amount of time in there. However there is a great thread on Brumation here you can go over, I’ll link it at the end.
As wellington has said, if outdoors is where you can build the biggest secure space for them, that would be the ideal place for them. I personally love the security of this kind of outdoor enclosure @Tom made(pic attached) it’s a dog kennel with a visual barrier at the bottom(which I’d personally dig into the ground about half a foot) with a heated night box attached. If you don’t think you’re able to build a night box, that’s ok, you can bring them in at night.
With the eating pebbles, it could be under or over supplementation, either way try and remove any gravel and small rocks from the area he roams if you can, a pinch 3 times a week is sufficient supplement wise.
A shallow terracotta saucer with daily fresh water they can choose to self soak in is best, and for one as young as yours I’d be soaking every other day to help keep them nice and hydrated.
A varied diet is key to good health, perhaps it’s worth you giving some of this stuff a go(pic attached) Alex recommended it to me not too long ago, you soak each cube in water(quantity on packet) and can add on top of some feeds, it’s a great way of getting some more variety in🙂 of course a variety of fresh stuff is still needed though.

To sum up on your questions:
1. You should be feeding every day, enough for him to graze throughout the day. That best mimics how they’d be in the wild, they’d always be on the move munching away.
2. You could try a wheel but it needs to be modified to make sure it’s safe, perhaps look them up on here.
3. Definitely soak more often, every other day is good to aim for.
4. Hopefully the pic of the outdoor enclosure I’m adding might be a style that would give you piece of mind, but there is also cheaper ways of going about it whilst still making it safe.
5. Hopefully we’ve answered that question for you.

He does appear to have some pyramiding which could be down to the points mentioned above by the others, but getting things set up properly will help making sure it doesn’t worsen.

Here’s the brumation thread:

Tom's Brumation Thread

Every fall we get bombarded here on the forum with all sorts of questions and problems regarding hibernation and tortoises "slowing down" for winter. The purpose of this thread is to talk about all aspects of this subject, to dispel some of the myths and mysteries, and give a "how to" list of...

tortoiseforum.org

I also made this thread not too long ago that goes over appropriate equipment, levels etc, and there’s a good link in there for the diet side of things too🙂as yours appears to be on the younger side with growing to do, I’ll link this one for you:

Housing young Russian/Herman

Hello there! In this thread, I’m going to include some information on an effective way to tackle a starter set up/a way you can build a bigger size once your baby is an adult. I know it looks a lot to go over, I like to make sure all bases are covered, I’m happy to break down any information...

tortoiseforum.org

Feel free to also check this one out, hopefully it’ll help with what kind of equipment to avoid and what not😊

Common keeping errors

Hello everyone! I’d been a long time lurker on this site long before joining just under a year ago now, over that time I’ve seen these husbandry issues come up time and time again, sometimes with dire consequences☹️ I thought this thread might serve as a good visual guide for these common...

tortoiseforum.org

Hope all this helps! Any more questions please ask away! They’ll always be someone to help🥰

 

[kurttheturt]

A normal tortoise walk is with shell lifted above the ground and legs under the the shell (not splayed out to the sides). If your tortoises walks like sea turtle babies rushing to the water - something's wrong.

I see no issues with legs on the photo.

Another question— what are the protocols for planting plants inside the enclosure? Can I put them right in the substrate? What are the best plants for this?

 

[Littleredfootbigredheart]

Another question— what are the protocols for planting plants inside the enclosure? Can I put them right in the substrate? What are the best plants for this?

Any store brought plants need the roots washing and planting in some safe coir with a minimum of a 3 month quarantine to rid of any potential fertilisers or pesticides, I’d personally go up to 6 months.

Some good plant options are spider plants, Boston ferns, carex grass makes for some good coverage, there’s many more but they’re some popular options, I’m sure Alex will suggest some others.
For spider plants, it’s best to get one, plant in your own soil and establish it as your mother plant, she’ll then give you an endless supply of spider babies you can plant straight into the enclosure, just make sure not to let the ones in the enclosure sprout babies because the seeds and flowers are toxic.

Happy planting!😌🌿

 

[kurttheturt]

He looks to have metabolic bone disease, but I don't think he does as I believe it's his round bottom shell is that makes him slant towards his tail end. His bottom shell should not be so easy to see on the sides like yours is.
@Yvonne G

How do I work on fixing this?

 

[wellington]

How do I work on fixing this?

Give him enough room to roam, a good diet with calcium a couple times a week, just a pinch and give him the proper temps, etc.
Not sure if that will fix anything but it will help give him a nice long life.

 

[SinLA]

Welcome also from LA. What part of LA are you in as the temps vary widely in Santa Monica vs Thousand Oaks etc. I’m in Burbank, FYI. They should not be left outside over winter because too many things can happen between predators, flooding, and inconsistent temps. You’ve already been given good links above with lots of info.

Out of curiosity and sorry if I missed this above, where did you get it? Big Box pet stores sell them as “one year old” but they are fully adult and wild caught. If yours is six inches I would be surprised if it’s two years old, that’s larger than my fully grown male.

 

[kurttheturt]

Welcome also from LA. What part of LA are you in as the temps vary widely in Santa Monica vs Thousand Oaks etc. I’m in Burbank, FYI. They should not be left outside over winter because too many things can happen between predators, flooding, and inconsistent temps. You’ve already been given good links above with lots of info.

Out of curiosity and sorry if I missed this above, where did you get it? Big Box pet stores sell them as “one year old” but they are fully adult and wild caught. If yours is six inches I would be surprised if it’s two years old, that’s larger than my fully grown male.

I may be wrong with the size because I only estimated but I got him from the Reptile super show in Pomona in 2023, I’m near LAX
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