How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies discussion thread

[TotallyTank]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

Thia has been so helpful, I have never had a baby before and since the only sully I have ever actually seen up close was at the zoo and Tank and he came to me at 53lbs and his needs are very diffrent than hers. I am using a large rubbermaid tub with tall sides. I have a 50watt heat bulb in a little area for soaking, a dish filled with greens and a little cup cut in half on cocunut coir and cypress mulch substate. she has a nice uvb light because i am so paranoid about soft shell issues, i plan on taking her in her outside to get some real sun in her tub at least once a day. I have a large flower bed area that is raised, that i think i am going to cover with a chicken wire cage in the summer, would that be okay? please tell me anything i can do diffrent or more, she is getting calcium on her greens.

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It's electronic, 32° is on the basking side directly below the light and the rest of the sides are 25°. His hide is 23°. There is no cool side. Half of the box is 32° and the other half is 25° it's just a small enclosure

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I also measured the humidity and it goes down really fast when my halogen is on. From 90% to 25% in only 2 hours

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Maybe I should get a bigger box.

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I prefer warmer temps than that, but everyone is different. How big is your enclosure? I start my babies in a 24x24" or a 36x18". Then they move to a 60x18" or a 60x36" tub. This is where they spend nights and cold days. On warm days they stay outside in 4x8' pens for the babies and variously bigger enclosures as they grow. My adults live in a 7000 sq.ft. enclosure with a heated shelter 24/7.

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do you have any pictures of your adult enclosure i would love to see it also do you have any pics of you outdoor pen for your babies, summer is coming soon and it is great sully weather, i want the healthiest baby possible

 

[TotallyTank]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

I have found the coil bulbs to be dangerous and the tube bulbs to be ineffective. Mercury Vapor Bulbs are the best options for simulating real sunshine in my experience.

Is a uvb tube light okay for an indoor space when the tort get to go outside in direct son for at lease 2-3 hours a day during the winter months.

 

[Tom]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

Here is my current adult enclosure. You can see the line of baby sunning pens along the wall in all the pics.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Enclosure-Expansion?highlight=enclosure+expansion#axzz1kZyAAzeo

Here is a more detailed thread on the baby pens.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread...ut-Safe-Outdoor-Baby-Enclosures#axzz1kZyAAzeo

Here is one of my current indoor enclosures.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-INDOOR-Underground-Housing#axzz1kZyAAzeo

Here is my favorite outdoor enclosure.
http://www.tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Daisy-s-New-Enclosure#axzz1kZyAAzeo

Your covered, raised planter box idea sounds great!

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I have found the coil bulbs to be dangerous and the tube bulbs to be ineffective. Mercury Vapor Bulbs are the best options for simulating real sunshine in my experience.

Is a uvb tube light okay for an indoor space when the tort get to go outside in direct son for at lease 2-3 hours a day during the winter months.

Yes. Totally fine.

 

[[email protected]]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

This is awesome information... i have 2 baby leopards and i am going to completely change their habitat this weekend!... thank you so much for this VALUABLE information!

Tammy

 

[MORTYtheTORTY]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

WOW Tom GREAT INFO...you have took over my post and there's way too much to read hahaha The very first post, I've read those links before and have took over google and read every single thing about sulcata's. I hope others can post what they use and do as well. I've read so much online that I wanted to hear peoples experience with them and of course their trials and errors too LOL I'd mention what happened with my sick tort and what I did wrong with the temp until the foil thing but that's in another thread....I hope more respond, I loved reading everything but had to skip to page 9 as there was way too much =P

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NM this isn't my post LOL it was linked to my post. Sorry Tom just looked at my actual post...anywhoo good info though. Too bad there's no delete button =P

 

[yarok]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

i love end pics....

How does someone get a galapagos?

 

[Shilah]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

This was a very informative post! Thanks! I was looking to start raising tortoises and I was not sure which ones I should buy, but I think this convinced me to buy Sulcatas

Oh good lord, reconsider! They are a lot of work and you'll need acreage to house them. Okay that's an exaggeration, but they are a whole lotta' tortoise to house as adults. They are still my favorite, but I always want people to know what they are getting into. I'm four days into building a very expensive new den box for my adults.

On a serious note: It is critical that you buy one from somebody whose been doing daily soaks, uses a damp substrate, humid hide box and a water bowl. I strongly recommend that you NOT buy one that has been housed on anything dry with no water bowl or soaks.

Good luck and thanks for the compliment.

Can you recomend someone to get baby Sulcata from?

 

[Tortoise Princess]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

Here are my thoughts on how to house, feed and care for hatchling and small sulcatas:

Sunshine/Outdoor enclosures: Sunshine is necessary. 20-30 minutes twice a week will prevent MBD, but more is better. I like to do an hour or two a day for hatchlings and gradually more as they get bigger. Here is a thread with more info on how to do this safely:
http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Cheap-Easy-Simple-Sunning-Enclosure
Putting them out for some sun will also get them to exercise more which is also very good for them.

- HI Tom, can i put them out in the sun anytime of the day? There are some info that says the sun's rays in the afternoon is harmful (at least for humans), so do i need to avoid that in my baby sulcata? I live in the Philippines BTW, so even during rainy season we have lots of sunshine all year round

Thanks

 

[Tom]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

- HI Tom, can i put them out in the sun anytime of the day? There are some info that says the sun's rays in the afternoon is harmful (at least for humans), so do i need to avoid that in my baby sulcata? I live in the Philippines BTW, so even during rainy season we have lots of sunshine all year round

Yes, you can put them out anytime of day. If its too hot, they will seek shade and cooler temps. The suns rays are the most direct and the UV the strongest mid day, and this is what they are referring to in reference to humans and sunburn. Tortoises don't have the same issues as we do when it comes to sunburn.

 

[Tortoise Princess]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

i've read some posts in the internet that cuttlebone is a great way to provide calcium supplement. If you leave that in the tort's pen, will they "over-eat" the cuttlebone??

Thanks

 

[Tom]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

No. Many of them won't eat it all.

 

[Zamric]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

i've read some posts in the internet that cuttlebone is a great way to provide calcium supplement. If you leave that in the tort's pen, will they "over-eat" the cuttlebone??

Thanks

both of my baby Leopards nibble on cuttle bone in their inside and outside enclosures, but I dont leave them whole. I break them into smaller pieces so they dont feel "Overwhelmed" by it size compared to them.

 

[mlsulcata]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

I used a cypress mulch for my tank...did you have trouble with your hatchlings eating it? If they do eat it will it hurt them or can the bark pieces be digested and pass?

 

[Yvonne G]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

Hi mlsulcata:

Won't you take a few moments to start a new thread in the "introductions" section and tell us a bit about yourself?

Do you have a red light over the habitat? Sometimes the red makes the substrate look like food to tortoises. At any rate, cypress mulch is digestible and unless he eats so much of it as to become blocked, it shouldn't harm him. Just make sure he is well-hydrated to help it pass through.

 

[jessrich87]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

I bought mine before I knew about the humidity thing. Lucky enough we ran across this soon after, and he has a humid box and a full bowl of water and a daily spray down. My concern is the pyramiding that was already there when we brought him home. Do you think this will cause problems for him in the future, such as health problems or stunted growth?

By the way, if you want to see the shell he is my profile picture and I also have a pic posted in my other threads. Thanks!

 

[TheTortoiseWhisperer]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

Here are my thoughts on how to house, feed and care for hatchling and small sulcatas:

Indoor Housing: The bigger the better. Got room for a 4x8' tortoise table? Great! Sweater boxes and Christmas tree storage bins work great. Contrary to the popular trend right now, I actually PREFER glass tanks for all the reasons people say they are bad. "They are too tall and restrict airflow." Great! More humidity. "The tall sides hold in too much heat." Great! I can use a lower wattage bulb and my tortoise will stay warmer for less $. "They can see out and this invisible barrier causes stress." After 20 years of sulcatas in glass tanks, this has never been a problem for me. You can tape something opaque to the glass, if they constantly rub their nose on it or try to walk through it. I have never had to do this. I like them being able to see me, and me them. You can also use horse watering troughs, cement mixing tubs or large reptile tubs. I generally prefer something waterproof because babies need high humidity and moisture. Wood does not hold up well when its wet all the time and must be sealed somehow.

Substrate: Coco coir. Cypress mulch. Orchid bark. Plain, additive free, soil. Sphagnum peat moss. Pick one or any combination. I recommend you do NOT use any sand, wood shavings, corn cob bedding, walnut shell bedding, alfalfa or grass pellets, newspaper bedding, any type of hay or any other new fad bedding that comes along. Keep your substrate damp to increase the humidity in the enclosure. If you can keep your humidity around 80% at tortoise level, you'll have a healthy, well hydrated, pyramid free, happy tortoise. Sometimes I cover part of the top of the enclosure to hold in humidity.

Humid hide boxes: Use at least one. These will help prevent dehydration and pyramiding and simulate the humid burrows that they would have in the wild, to a degree. I like to use plastic shoe boxes for these and semi-bury them in the substrate. I use a Dremel tool to cut out the right size door hole and a quarter inch drill bit to make a couple of ventilation holes on opposing sides. If they don't use them on their own, I try to "train" them to use them by putting them in the boxes after lights out. Here's an example of a couple:

I use fine coco coir inside them as it does not mold or grow any fungus. I like to keep it wet in there.

Heat: I like to use small, 35-50watt, overhead, spot or flood bulbs for this. Always use ceramic fixtures, never the cheaper plastic ones. In a cool house, I'll use a bulb like this AND a ceramic heating element (CHE). Keep them both over one side. This will be the "warm" side and it should be 80-90 degrees. Directly under your bulb will be the "basking spot" and it should be 100-110 degrees, but only in that one spot. The other side of the enclosure should be around 75-80 and will serve as the "cool" side. "Night" temps should stay 75-80ish. These temps will insure that your little tort does not get sick with all the humidity in there. These are the four temps to be concerned with. They should be regularly checked with a temp gun AND a remote probed thermometer. Temps can be adjusted by raising or lowering your bulbs or raising or lowering the wattage. You do not need Mercury Vapor Bulbs or any other UV bulbs if your tortoise gets regular sunshine. 20-30 minutes twice a week is adequate, more is better. Put your light bulb on a timer for around 12 hours a day. They need it dark at night. This is where the CHE comes in. It keeps them warm AND dark at night. Also, I like to project my spot bulb down onto a flat rock or a piece of slate. They can bask on it and it absorbs and radiates the heat from the bulb over a larger area when they are not on it. This also gives you a good place to measure your basking temp with your heat gun. Here's an example of a basic enclosure to show what I'm talking about:

Here's a digital thermometer with a wireless, remote probe.

Food: Weeds; mallow, filaree, dandelion, sow thistle, plantain, etc... Grass. Mulberry, rose, hibiscus and grape leaves. Hibiscus and rose flowers. Spineless opuntia cactus. Mazuri mixed in with other greens a couple of times a week. Spring mix and leafy greens from the grocery store. Variety is good. Avoid fruit, and use foods like spinach, broccoli, cabbage, iceberg lettuce, very infrequently, if ever. When they get big, over a foot, you can try to introduce dry grass hay. But babies usually won't eat it.

Supplements: This is debatable and the opinions run the whole spectrum from "none ever" to "lots every day". I like to use Rep-cal twice a week in a very small amount. I use Herptivite once a week in a small amount on one of the days that I didn't use the calcium. Because my torts get sun year round, I do not generally use any calcium with D3 added.

Water: Use a terra cotta plant saucer, or something similar, and bury it so that its flush with the substrate. It will need to be cleaned at least once a day, maybe more.

Sunshine/Outdoor enclosures: Sunshine is necessary. 20-30 minutes twice a week will prevent MBD, but more is better. I like to do an hour or two a day for hatchlings and gradually more as they get bigger. Here is a thread with more info on how to do this safely:
http://tortoiseforum.org/Thread-Cheap-Easy-Simple-Sunning-Enclosure
Putting them out for some sun will also get them to exercise more which is also very good for them.

Pyramiding prevention: This is all new stuff. You won't see it on an internet care sheet. It is my opinion and the product of 20 years of utter failure and tons of research, observation and trial and error. Lot's of other people helped me to reach these findings, so its not just me. Here is how to grow a smooth, healthy sulcata: Keep them humid, hydrated, warm and spray their shells 3-4 times a day. Yes they are desert animals, but the babies stay hidden in burrows, root balls and leaf litter, where it is HUMID. Babies don't just walk around out in the open in the hot dry air in the wild. They'd get eaten if they did. Once they get to around 6-8" humidity and moisture is much less critical. It is important to get them sunshine, exercise and a good diet too, but hydration, humidity, and moisture is the KEY to preventing pyramiding. Soak them in shallow, warm water at least once a day. I soak them first thing in the morning and again after a sunning session in the hot, dry air here. Sometimes, I'll soak them a third time before lights out. Sulcatas are very resistant to shell rot and fungus. I have never seen a single case of shell rot on a sulcata. As long as they are kept warm (75 or warmer) they will not get respiratory infections either. I have tried to keep one too wet and could not induce any sort of problem. You don't have to go crazy, but do keep them well hydrated. Pyramiding has nothing to do with excess protein or too much food. It has everything to do with MOISTURE, HUMIDITY and HYDRATION.


These things are MY opinion and are based on MY experiences with sulcatas and other torts over the last 20 years. My way is not the only way and other people have also raised smooth sulcatas, but it is very rare and can usually be traced back to high levels of humidity and or hydration. Much of this can also be applied to other species, but as of now, sulcatas are the only one that I have kept THIS wet.

If anyone wants to debate or question any of this please PM me or start a new thread.

The end.

Tom I just want you to know that
YOU'RE MY HERO!!!
When I grow up I want to be just like you
(BTW I'm 44) lol
Thank you soooo much for all the information you offer all of us. I'm especially thankful because I just started to raise my very first hatchlings and by this weekend I should have 2 pretty large addition to our family... At least for me I can tell you that reading everything you know, it hasn't just made me more knowledgeable , it's also made me more at ease because I know that if I have a question I can always look for you to get the best answer. THANKS AGAIN FOR BEING HERE!!!!​

 

[Tom]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

I bought mine before I knew about the humidity thing. Lucky enough we ran across this soon after, and he has a humid box and a full bowl of water and a daily spray down. My concern is the pyramiding that was already there when we brought him home. Do you think this will cause problems for him in the future, such as health problems or stunted growth?

There is no way to know. Pyramiding is caused by desiccation and chronic dehydration. That is some pretty bad stuff for a tiny hatchling. If your tortoise has pyramiding, it means he/she was exposed to these conditions for at least some of the time. There is no way to measure what damage was or wasn't done, except necropsy, which would be REALLY bad for their health.

The only sensible course of action is to offer the best diet and conditions that you can and hope for the best now. Most of them survive and grow normally with no problems, once conditions are corrected. When it is caught early enough it is often difficult to tell there even was ever a problem. Once yours reaches adulthood, you probably won't even be able to see any hint of his/her rough start.

 

[jessrich87]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

There is no way to know. Pyramiding is caused by desiccation and chronic dehydration. That is some pretty bad stuff for a tiny hatchling. If your tortoise has pyramiding, it means he/she was exposed to these conditions for at least some of the time. There is no way to measure what damage was or wasn't done, except necropsy, which would be REALLY bad for their health.

The only sensible course of action is to offer the best diet and conditions that you can and hope for the best now. Most of them survive and grow normally with no problems, once conditions are corrected. When it is caught early enough it is often difficult to tell there even was ever a problem. Once yours reaches adulthood, you probably won't even be able to see any hint of his/her rough start.

Thanks- it is good to know that when he is older it will be hard to tell. I hope that there is not permanent health damage. I know that he probably was not well hydrated or well fed. He came from a breeder who had nice huge torts, but some of the information she gave me really contradicts some of the info on here. Anyway, I am obsessed with him and his care now so I hope that I can spin his little tort life around to a much healthier one.

 

[zerocool_08]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

This is very helpful Tom! very informative and not that confusing like the other articles on the net.. Right now I am gathering all the data i could get and preparing all the materials needed before starting on this new hobby =)

I have one question though regarding on the lighting.. My room temperature is already around 30C (around 86F), and I am planning on having an indoor setup. What lighting do you prefer?
My concern is that if I used mercury vapor bulbs as their "sun" during their indoor schedule, I might increased the temperature too much..?

 

[Tom]

RE: How To Raise Sulcata Hatchlings and Babies.

I that situation I would use a small incandescent flood bulb of around 50-65 watts to make a basking spot on one side and a fluorescent tube to lit up everything else during the day. I would put both of these on the same timer for around 12 hours a day. You can use a UV producing fluorescent tube, but in your area, your tortoise should be able to get sunshine regularly all year long and so indoor UV won't be necessary. You should really be thinking about outdoor housing for your tortoise. Your climate is excellent for them.