Hypocrisy

[EppsDynasty]

I have a neighbor that lives in the L.A. area but owns a home here. He has a friend that owns a Tesla and drove it up here one day, he looked at me and asked "Where's the plug to charge my Tesla." I responded with "There ain't one," he then pulled out a 120 volt charger and said "I'll have to use this." I'm not sure if any one knows this but ... A 110-120 volt electric car charger gets you about 5 miles of driving per hour of charging at 20 amps (Holy Sh*t). He charged his car for 30 hours and still had to stop 1 more time to charge before he could make the 150 mile drive home.
So the other day said neighbor and I were talking when the thing about CA banning incandescent bulbs came up and how important they are for the tort people. He responded with how inefficient they are and that the ban HAD to happen to prevent people from using more electricity than they need to. You may not know the electrical grid here in CA sucks and can't keep up with electrical demand quite often. I pointed out how inefficient the Tesla and other electric cars are and why can you have a Tesla (That I have to subsidize as a taxpayer) that requires massive amount of electricity but I can not have a Light Bulb. I pointed out this Hypocrisy and his response was "Electric cars make sense when you live in a big city." My response to that was "Incandescents make sense if you need Heat as well as light."
So you see where this is going ... He had no reasonable answer to why we can not have incandescents, but was adamant about how important the Energy Inefficient Cars were.
I am not trying to be political here just pointing out a gigantic point of Hypocrisy.

 

[Tom]

Preaching to the choir my man.

I just answered this question in a private message this morning. The question was whether or not there is a federal ban on incandescent bulbs. I haven't heard that but here is what I said:

"If there is a federal ban, I have not heard of it. There is definitely a big push to discontinue them in favor of the much more efficient LEDs, but I'm not aware of any federal legislation. I put LEDs in my home years ago just to save money on the electric bill, but these CA laws are stupid and unnecessary. The market was already dictating the demise of the incandescent because LEDs cost less to buy initially, last more than ten times longer, and run about 90% more efficiently. There was no need for any laws. Outside of making heat with a little light for reptiles no one has any use for the old inefficient incandescents."

I am a perfect example. I saw how long LEDs lasted and how efficient they were, as well as the quality of the light they emit, and several years ago, before any ban or mandate, I started replacing all the bulbs in my house with them. Back then they cost quite a lot more than the incandescents or cfls because they were so new to the market, and I STILL made the switch voluntarily because it made sense to do so. There was no need for law makers to waste time on this issue, and certainly no need to make bans that restrict my freedom and pursuit of happiness. Now the LEDs are significantly cheaper than anything else, and they just work better. No need for a law. So stupid.

It should be the same ting with electric cars. The market should dictate this, not legislation. I WANT an electric car! I have solar on my house so I can "fuel" my car every day for free instead of paying $5 a gallon for gas all day long. When electric cars begin to make more sense than gasoline cars, people will buy them. When its cheaper to charge up your car than it is to gas up your car, people will want to make the switch. When the individual charges last longer and get you rather than a tank of gas, and when the operating life of the giant battery pack is longer than the operating life of an internal combustion engine, people will voluntarily make the switch. There is a lot about an electric car that just makes more sense. Is either system perfect? Of course not.

 

[wellington]

Totally get it!
As far as your electric grid. I don't think any place has a grid updated enough for electric cars and all the charging stations both public and private that is going to be put up if electric cars actually takes off big. . They are putting the cart before the horse and it's going to go bad.
I will stick with gas and not have to worry about how far I have to go to get too the next gas pump. Unlike my sister in-law that has to plan out every distant trip so they can charge up.
I think it's funny, the Tesla person thinks everyone is putting in a charging station.

 

[Tom]

Totally get it!
As far as your electric grid. I don't think any place has a grid updated enough for electric cars and all the charging stations both public and private that is going to be put up if electric cars actually takes off big. . They are putting the cart before the horse and it's going to go bad.
I will stick with gas and not have to worry about how far I have to go to get too the next gas pump. Unlike my sister in-law that has to plan out every distant trip so they can charge up.
I think it's funny, the Tesla person thinks everyone is putting in a charging station.

I think that as more people gradually make the switch, the electrical grid updates and the availability of charging stations will increase. The market will require it. There will be money to be made there, one way or another, and people will make it happen.

Personally, if I had an electric car, I wouldn't need public charging stations. I would charge at home for free every day. In the event I was going to drive more than 300 miles in a day, I could use a gas car for that trip. I could use one I already have, or I could do what a lot of people already do anyway: Rent a car for the trip. Many people keep the miles off their daily driver and rent a full efficient car for long road trips. I would consider the cost of installing the charging station at my home as part of the cost of the new car, and gladly pay for that one time upfront cost instead of hundreds of dollars a month for gasoline forever.

In our current situation where we are sort of in-between gas and electric, the plug-in hybrids make the most sense. All the benefits of both, with solutions for the problems with both built in.

 

[wellington]

I think that as more people gradually make the switch, the electrical grid updates and the availability of charging stations will increase. The market will require it. There will be money to be made there, one way or another, and people will make it happen.

Personally, if I had an electric car, I wouldn't need public charging stations. I would charge at home for free every day. In the event I was going to drive more than 300 miles in a day, I could use a gas car for that trip. I could use one I already have, or I could do what a lot of people already do anyway: Rent a car for the trip. Many people keep the miles off their daily driver and rent a full efficient car for long road trips. I would consider the cost of installing the charging station at my home as part of the cost of the new car, and gladly pay for that one time upfront cost instead of hundreds of dollars a month for gasoline forever.

In our current situation where we are sort of in-between gas and electric, the plug-in hybrids make the most sense. All the benefits of both, with solutions for the problems with both built in.

Yes, it's common sense that the grids will be updated as more electric are purchased. But it's still going to be behind the 8 ball as it's much faster buying a car then upgrading the electric grid.
Like in the OP area and a lot of my family up in MI, the wind blows and they lose power, for years now, no electric grid upgrading for over 20 years now.
I would also have a gas if I were to ever get an electric. My sister in-law, they have one car.
I would consider a hybrid but never full electric. I think the hybrid is what should have been pushed, not electric

 

[Tom]

Yes, it's common sense that the grids will be updated as more electric are purchased. But it's still going to be behind the 8 ball as it's much faster buying a car then upgrading the electric grid.
Like in the OP area and a lot of my family up in MI, the wind blows and they lose power, for years now, no electric grid upgrading for over 20 years now.
I would also have a gas if I were to ever get an electric. My sister in-law, they have one car.
I would consider a hybrid but never full electric. I think the hybrid is what should have been pushed, not electric

Why do you think "they" are doing this? What's in it for them?

 

[SinLA]

I promise you, there is NO SIDE of the political spectrum that is happy Tesla is subsidized by tax dollars

 

[wellington]

I promise you, there is NO SIDE of the political spectrum that is happy Tesla is subsidized by tax dollars

Be very careful and do not bring politics into this. It's against rules.

 

[wellington]

Why do you think "they" are doing this? What's in it for them?

Doing what?

 

[EppsDynasty]

@Tom .. My only disagreement is Solar is not free, panels are expensive, then inverters are needed (expensive), there is the installation cost and now the electrical companies DO NOT have to buy your surplus electricity created by your solar. We had a solar company give us an estimate for our home and it was $110,000 for the first estimate and $125,000 for the second one. This ONLY gives us 60% of our energy needs, we will be expected to buy 40% of our energy needs from the Electrical Company. It'll be a very long time before any energy you get from said solar panels is free.

@wellington ... check this out. I live in Kern County California which has become Solar County, we have MASSIVE solar fields being put in daily (thanks to Gov. Newsome subsidized by us the tax payer). EVERY nano of electricity used that was created by solar has to have a power plant on call to back up the solar field in case it can not supply the need. Kern County buys power from ...wait for it .... Illinois. How this works is lets say it's Chicago (Cook County) that is supplying us. Cook county sends the power to the next county Will County, and Will County pays for it. Then it is sent to the next county (Grundy) who then buys it from Will county, then to the next Livingston County, who buys it from Will County. This is repeated county to county until it reaches us (2,000+ miles). Again another example of Solars inefficiency.

There is this bit of info to consider as well ... Here we are charged for electricity based on a Tier System. The more energy you use the more you pay for EVERY bit of electricity you use. So once you have a Car Charger while using it EVERYTHING being used increases in cost. So your refrigerator just jumped 15% in cost, as did the pool pump, or the LED lights you are using, as did your daughters laptop charging while she does homework. INSANE Once you use a certain amount of energy you are labeled a "Energy Hog", once you have this label you will ALWAYS pay more than your neighbor for every bit of energy.

Oklahoma is suspected to be the next "Banner" of incandescents. Right now there are tons of "investors" buying up incandescents to then be resold for massive profits. This is being done in the 10's of thousands of dollars worth of bulbs per purchase, then to resold for 500% to 1,000% profit.

This thread got quite the response. I really just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of "No way you can use a 60 watt bulb, but by all means please drive this "Energy Hog Car"

1 more thing. LED's say they last 50,000 hours or something like it. They claim they will last you years, Bull Sh*t. The components of the bulb that get the energy to the LED, DON'T last 50,000 hours. So your 50,000 hour bulb dies at 1,000 hours due to the cheap "Driver".

 

[wellington]

@Tom .. My only disagreement is Solar is not free, panels are expensive, then inverters are needed (expensive), there is the installation cost and now the electrical companies DO NOT have to buy your surplus electricity created by your solar. We had a solar company give us an estimate for our home and it was $110,000 for the first estimate and $125,000 for the second one. This ONLY gives us 60% of our energy needs, we will be expected to buy 40% of our energy needs from the Electrical Company. It'll be a very long time before any energy you get from said solar panels is free.

@wellington ... check this out. I live in Kern County California which has become Solar County, we have MASSIVE solar fields being put in daily (thanks to Gov. Newsome subsidized by us the tax payer). EVERY nano of electricity used that was created by solar has to have a power plant on call to back up the solar field in case it can not supply the need. Kern County buys power from ...wait for it .... Illinois. How this works is lets say it's Chicago (Cook County) that is supplying us. Cook county sends the power to the next county Will County, and Will County pays for it. Then it is sent to the next county (Grundy) who then buys it from Will county, then to the next Livingston County, who buys it from Will County. This is repeated county to county until it reaches us (2,000+ miles). Again another example of Solars inefficiency.

There is this bit of info to consider as well ... Here we are charged for electricity based on a Tier System. The more energy you use the more you pay for EVERY bit of electricity you use. So once you have a Car Charger while using it EVERYTHING being used increases in cost. So your refrigerator just jumped 15% in cost, as did the pool pump, or the LED lights you are using, as did your daughters laptop charging while she does homework. INSANE Once you use a certain amount of energy you are labeled a "Energy Hog", once you have this label you will ALWAYS pay more than your neighbor for every bit of energy.

Oklahoma is suspected to be the next "Banner" of incandescents. Right now there are tons of "investors" buying up incandescents to then be resold for massive profits. This is being done in the 10's of thousands of dollars worth of bulbs per purchase, then to resold for 500% to 1,000% profit.

This thread got quite the response. I really just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of "No way you can use a 60 watt bulb, but by all means please drive this "Energy Hog Car"

1 more thing. LED's say they last 50,000 hours or something like it. They claim they will last you years, Bull Sh*t. The components of the bulb that get the energy to the LED, DON'T last 50,000 hours. So your 50,000 hour bulb dies at 1,000 hours due to the cheap "Driver".

The electric coming from Illinois is mind blowing. Never knew that, crazy insane!
Solar, yeah, ridiculous to put in and our electric company does not buy the surplus
Led, I agree, do not last the amount of time they advertise. I got caught up in that Bull a couple times before I caught on. And the cfl are even worse and you need twice the lights on to get the same lighting one incandescent would give.

 

[EppsDynasty]

The electric coming from Illinois is mind blowing. Never knew that, crazy insane!
Solar, yeah, ridiculous to put in and our electric company does not buy the surplus
Led, I agree, do not last the amount of time they advertise. I got caught up in that Bull a couple times before I caught on. And the cfl are even worse and you need twice the lights on to get the same lighting one incandescent would give.

My wife told me the other day "What's the difference between humans and animals?" .............. I had no idea, she responded "Animals never let the idiot be the leader."

 

[Tom]

Doing what?

Pushing electric cars on the population. Mandating it through legislation. Essentially, forcing us.

 

[Tom]

I promise you, there is NO SIDE of the political spectrum that is happy Tesla is subsidized by tax dollars

Are they happy about the other auto makers being subsidized?

 

[Tom]

@Tom .. My only disagreement is Solar is not free, panels are expensive, then inverters are needed (expensive), there is the installation cost and now the electrical companies DO NOT have to buy your surplus electricity created by your solar. We had a solar company give us an estimate for our home and it was $110,000 for the first estimate and $125,000 for the second one. This ONLY gives us 60% of our energy needs, we will be expected to buy 40% of our energy needs from the Electrical Company. It'll be a very long time before any energy you get from said solar panels is free.

@wellington ... check this out. I live in Kern County California which has become Solar County, we have MASSIVE solar fields being put in daily (thanks to Gov. Newsome subsidized by us the tax payer). EVERY nano of electricity used that was created by solar has to have a power plant on call to back up the solar field in case it can not supply the need. Kern County buys power from ...wait for it .... Illinois. How this works is lets say it's Chicago (Cook County) that is supplying us. Cook county sends the power to the next county Will County, and Will County pays for it. Then it is sent to the next county (Grundy) who then buys it from Will county, then to the next Livingston County, who buys it from Will County. This is repeated county to county until it reaches us (2,000+ miles). Again another example of Solars inefficiency.

There is this bit of info to consider as well ... Here we are charged for electricity based on a Tier System. The more energy you use the more you pay for EVERY bit of electricity you use. So once you have a Car Charger while using it EVERYTHING being used increases in cost. So your refrigerator just jumped 15% in cost, as did the pool pump, or the LED lights you are using, as did your daughters laptop charging while she does homework. INSANE Once you use a certain amount of energy you are labeled a "Energy Hog", once you have this label you will ALWAYS pay more than your neighbor for every bit of energy.

Oklahoma is suspected to be the next "Banner" of incandescents. Right now there are tons of "investors" buying up incandescents to then be resold for massive profits. This is being done in the 10's of thousands of dollars worth of bulbs per purchase, then to resold for 500% to 1,000% profit.

This thread got quite the response. I really just wanted to point out the hypocrisy of "No way you can use a 60 watt bulb, but by all means please drive this "Energy Hog Car"

1 more thing. LED's say they last 50,000 hours or something like it. They claim they will last you years, Bull Sh*t. The components of the bulb that get the energy to the LED, DON'T last 50,000 hours. So your 50,000 hour bulb dies at 1,000 hours due to the cheap "Driver".

Fair points, but in my case, my solar has more than paid for itself. I watch the electricity rates and did the calculation. "They" tell you that it pays for itself within 3-4 years. It doesn't. Mine took 6 years and 2 months to break even at the electric rates from those days. We put it up in 2010. My system has given me 8 years of "free" electricity. Think of how much the average person in Southern CA is paying monthly for electricity. Its astonishing. He told me the inverter would last 10-12 years. I had to replace it after 13 years and that cost $3000. The average monthly electric bill in my area is around $300-400 in winter and $700-800 in summer. Putting up solar panels when I did, has worked in my favor. My meter is flying backwards right now as I type this with my computer plugged in, and all the power I'm using in the house. Fish tank, tortoise enclosure, washer and dryer running, tv, 2 fridges, a big egg incubator out into cold garage, and that dial is flying backwards.

Like everyone else, I have had LEDs go out. I can think of one that was an early model that only lasted 5-6 years. All others here at home, and at my ranch, and in all my reptile enclosures have never gone out. I don't doubt that they use cheap components, but my first hand experience with dozens of these bulbs is that they rarely ever stop working. By contrast, I have to replace my incandescent basking bulbs in all the reptile enclosures at least twice a year, if not more.

 

[SinLA]

Are they happy about the other auto makers being subsidized?

In the interest of not delving further into politics I'll refrain from answering, lol

 

[wellington]

Pushing electric cars on the population. Mandating it through legislation. Essentially, forcing us.

I won't answer that because you and I differ on what my answer will be. So, we will just let that be.

 

[jaizei]

Preaching to the choir my man.

I just answered this question in a private message this morning. The question was whether or not there is a federal ban on incandescent bulbs. I haven't heard that but here is what I said:

"If there is a federal ban, I have not heard of it. There is definitely a big push to discontinue them in favor of the much more efficient LEDs, but I'm not aware of any federal legislation. I put LEDs in my home years ago just to save money on the electric bill, but these CA laws are stupid and unnecessary. The market was already dictating the demise of the incandescent because LEDs cost less to buy initially, last more than ten times longer, and run about 90% more efficiently. There was no need for any laws. Outside of making heat with a little light for reptiles no one has any use for the old inefficient incandescents."

I am a perfect example. I saw how long LEDs lasted and how efficient they were, as well as the quality of the light they emit, and several years ago, before any ban or mandate, I started replacing all the bulbs in my house with them. Back then they cost quite a lot more than the incandescents or cfls because they were so new to the market, and I STILL made the switch voluntarily because it made sense to do so. There was no need for law makers to waste time on this issue, and certainly no need to make bans that restrict my freedom and pursuit of happiness. Now the LEDs are significantly cheaper than anything else, and they just work better. No need for a law. So stupid.

It should be the same ting with electric cars. The market should dictate this, not legislation. I WANT an electric car! I have solar on my house so I can "fuel" my car every day for free instead of paying $5 a gallon for gas all day long. When electric cars begin to make more sense than gasoline cars, people will buy them. When its cheaper to charge up your car than it is to gas up your car, people will want to make the switch. When the individual charges last longer and get you rather than a tank of gas, and when the operating life of the giant battery pack is longer than the operating life of an internal combustion engine, people will voluntarily make the switch. There is a lot about an electric car that just makes more sense. Is either system perfect? Of course not.

2007. You are unaware of federal energy policies going back to 2007.

The 'market forces' that lowered LED prices was that incandescent were going to be phased out and the demand for LED was increasing/going to increase. If incandescents had continued to be manufactured, its likely that LED could have been similar to CFL or T5s with a limited market share. Unless you went out of your way to special order LED bulbs, they were already quite far on their way to becoming affordable when you bought them.

 

[Tim Carlisle]

2007. You are unaware of federal energy policies going back to 2007.

The 'market forces' that lowered LED prices was that incandescent were going to be phased out and the demand for LED was increasing/going to increase. If incandescents had continued to be manufactured, its likely that LED could have been similar to CFL or T5s with a limited market share. Unless you went out of your way to special order LED bulbs, they were already quite far on their way to becoming affordable when you bought them.

Yep. Incandescents are getting hard to come by in my area too. If they officially become banned via either state or federal mandate, I wonder if they'll be a carveout for brooder lamps / agricultural use. Last place I found any Incandescents locally was at a Rural King, marketed as "brooder lamp". $6.99 each. I cleared the shelves of all the 125w ones. lol

 

[jaizei]

@wellington ... check this out. I live in Kern County California which has become Solar County, we have MASSIVE solar fields being put in daily (thanks to Gov. Newsome subsidized by us the tax payer). EVERY nano of electricity used that was created by solar has to have a power plant on call to back up the solar field in case it can not supply the need. Kern County buys power from ...wait for it .... Illinois. How this works is lets say it's Chicago (Cook County) that is supplying us. Cook county sends the power to the next county Will County, and Will County pays for it. Then it is sent to the next county (Grundy) who then buys it from Will county, then to the next Livingston County, who buys it from Will County. This is repeated county to county until it reaches us (2,000+ miles). Again another example of Solars inefficiency.

This is nonsensical. idk where you heard it, but thats not how it works. Electricity isn't sold and sent county to county. California and Illinois are on separate grids. Maybe its possible to buy 'offset' power, but I doubt theres any actual electricity being sent from Illinois to California.